Expansion Rumors Megathread

[Gotham Gator]

Because Phoenix is 12th in TV market rankings at 1.89 million households and San Antonio is 31st with 939k.

By the way, Tampa is 11th and Detroit is 13th. I go back and forth between whether a Miami admission hurts Tampa's bid or not, but it is undeniably the largest untapped TV market, and larger than both Orlando and Miami. If we let TV market size be our guide:

24 - Miami (16th)
25 - Sacramento (20th)
26 - St. Louis (21st)
27 - San Diego (28th)
28 - Tampa (11th)
29 - Phoenix (12th)
30 - Detroit (13th)

Cleveland, Charlotte, Raleigh, Baltimore, and Indy are the only markets bigger than San Diego that wouldn't be in yet, but only by 400k in Cleveland's case and 200k or less for all the others. Nashville is right behind at 29th, and Cincinnati's at 36th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_television_markets

It's good to be a little careful with these rankings. I was surprised to see that Miami is ranked 5 spots below Tampa, even though Miami is a much larger city. It turns out, they cast a wide net for the Tampa market, including Sarasota/Bradenton, for example. But they don't do that for Miami - excluding West Palm. If you add the West Palm/Ft. Pierce market (#33), the combined total rises to #6.

 

[Dnigly13]

24 is miami.
25 and 26 needs to be San Diego and St. Louis.
After that I rank my ideal choices as follows:
Nashville
Detroit
Carolina
Phoenix
Tampa
San Antonio
Indy
Cincinnati
Sacramento

 

[Ulrich]

I'm not saying TB is at the top of the list at MLS HQ, but let's be real, they tick-off every item that MLS is looking for:

1. They have a committed owners group.
2. They have an existing team playing at the top of USL.
3. They have an academy partnered with Chargers Soccer Club - the top program in the state and historically competitive nationally.
4. They have a built stadium that is ready to be expanded - an expansion that could simultaneously take place with its use.

We can all be debating tv market and this/that, but MLS is going to want teams that are ready to go with no loose ends. Obviously they will pick whichever team(s) they want, and perhaps TB is knocked down the ladder if other bids have satisfied similar items, but the publicly discussed criteria they've laid out has to be a giant starting point, long before the tv ratings or lower division attendance.

 

[adam]

I'm not saying TB is at the top of the list at MLS HQ, but let's be real, they tick-off every item that MLS is looking for:

1. They have a committed owners group.
2. They have an existing team playing at the top of USL.
3. They have an academy partnered with Chargers Soccer Club - the top program in the state and historically competitive nationally.
4. They have a built stadium that is ready to be expanded - an expansion that could simultaneously take place with its use.

We can all be debating tv market and this/that, but MLS is going to want teams that are ready to go with no loose ends. Obviously they will pick whichever team(s) they want, and perhaps TB is knocked down the ladder if other bids have satisfied similar items, but the publicly discussed criteria they've laid out has to be a giant starting point, long before the tv ratings or lower division attendance.

Tampa also has garber's former assistant on their staff.

 

[Fantazma]

I'm not saying TB is at the top of the list at MLS HQ, but let's be real, they tick-off every item that MLS is looking for:

1. They have a committed owners group.
2. They have an existing team playing at the top of USL.
3. They have an academy partnered with Chargers Soccer Club - the top program in the state and historically competitive nationally.
4. They have a built stadium that is ready to be expanded - an expansion that could simultaneously take place with its use.

We can all be debating tv market and this/that, but MLS is going to want teams that are ready to go with no loose ends. Obviously they will pick whichever team(s) they want, and perhaps TB is knocked down the ladder if other bids have satisfied similar items, but the publicly discussed criteria they've laid out has to be a giant starting point, long before the tv ratings or lower division attendance.

tampa is in no doubt....just leaves three spots up for grabs....im still shocked we got one considering we didnt even have 3 of 4 things you mentioned. this is probably why everyone hates us....we were granted a spot cuz garber wanted a second NY team badly

 

[Ulrich]

tampa is in no doubt....just leaves three spots up for grabs....im still shocked we got one considering we didnt even have 3 of 4 things you mentioned. this is probably why everyone hates us....we were granted a spot cuz garber wanted a second NY team badly

Other people may not think it was fair, but no other market/team in the US does for MLS what we have from a marketing/TV perspective. Europe sure isn't staying up late to watch any other team. Attendance goes up when we're in town. Adidas probably never hit the levels of sold merchandise until shirts with Villa, Lamps, and Pirlo hit the racks. We may have been given a waiver on 75% of what was required, but we are the crown jewel of the league.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Other people may not think it was fair, but no other market/team in the US does for MLS what we have from a marketing/TV perspective. Europe sure isn't staying up late to watch any other team. Attendance goes up when we're in town. Adidas probably never hit the levels of sold merchandise until shirts with Villa, Lamps, and Pirlo hit the racks. We may have been given a waiver on 75% of what was required, but we are the crown jewel of the league.

And it should be forcing NJRB to get off their asses. They've been lollygagging around their time in MLS and now that we've showed up, they have competition for this market and are forced to really try and compete here.

 

[sbrylski]

I'm not saying TB is at the top of the list at MLS HQ, but let's be real, they tick-off every item that MLS is looking for:

1. They have a committed owners group.
2. They have an existing team playing at the top of USL.
3. They have an academy partnered with Chargers Soccer Club - the top program in the state and historically competitive nationally.
4. They have a built stadium that is ready to be expanded - an expansion that could simultaneously take place with its use.

We can all be debating tv market and this/that, but MLS is going to want teams that are ready to go with no loose ends. Obviously they will pick whichever team(s) they want, and perhaps TB is knocked down the ladder if other bids have satisfied similar items, but the publicly discussed criteria they've laid out has to be a giant starting point, long before the tv ratings or lower division attendance.

I think it's a little bit unknown how the rest of the owners feel about Bill Edwards. He's a little bit "loud" and seems to find himself in litigation a lot. I'm not sure the ownership group is a definite asset.

 

[sbrylski]

But honestly, the kits in a potential 3-team cup rivalry in Florida have the potential to be amazing.

Orlando:

Tampa Bay:

Miami (potentially):

 

[Ulrich]

I think it's a little bit unknown how the rest of the owners feel about Bill Edwards. He's a little bit "loud" and seems to find himself in litigation a lot. I'm not sure the ownership group is a definite asset.

I'd rather have a committed ownership group that wants to succeed than one that's half-assed like some of the cheaper MLS owners. Edwards was loud in the NASL, but that league was a shitshow, led by clueless people he disagreed with, and he had to loan money to FtLauderdale to keep them afloat while subsequently having to sue to get repaid.

If/when Tampa joins MLS, he's going to know he's not the biggest/baddest owner with the most ambition & pull - so he'll either take a back seat to those that do or find himself either outvoted or ostracized on initiatives he wants.

 

[Ulrich]

But honestly, the kits in a potential 3-team cup rivalry in Florida have the potential to be amazing.

Orlando:

Tampa Bay:

Miami (potentially):

If only Adidas could make boots for Miami that look like espadrilles... then we'd really have a Miami Vice theme (too much?)

 

[LionNYC]

Miami Vice FC. Nickname: The Flamingos

 

[ferrarinycfc]

http://www.espnfc.com.au/sacramento...ng-for-mls-team-acquires-usl-club-republic-fc


Sort of weird that it was a different group from the Republic that had the bid in. This is good news going forward though

 

[sbrylski]

So after brief rumors that a Plan B was being formalized, word is that no such plan exists in St. Louis: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_8432212e-c702-504c-aa47-3b1827662288.html

And more bad news out of San Diego, with SDSU pulling out of negotiations (and failing to paint a compelling case as to why, IMO): http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-sdsusoccer-20170516-story.html

Extrapolating bad news, as always, gives a new potential lineup of:

25 - Sacramento
26 - Tampa
27 - Phoenix
28 - Nashville/Cincinnati

Simply because they're the ready ones. Who knew MLS expansion was so complicated? /trump

 

[Ulrich]

So after brief rumors that a Plan B was being formalized, word is that no such plan exists in St. Louis: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_8432212e-c702-504c-aa47-3b1827662288.html

And more bad news out of San Diego, with SDSU pulling out of negotiations (and failing to paint a compelling case as to why, IMO): http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-sdsusoccer-20170516-story.html

Extrapolating bad news, as always, gives a new potential lineup of:

25 - Sacramento
26 - Tampa
27 - Phoenix
28 - Nashville/Cincinnati

Simply because they're the ready ones. Who knew MLS expansion was so complicated? /trump

Cincy has the organization but the city is practically bankrupt. Do they have a private stadium plan or are they floating to stay on the UCincy campus?

Otherwise, those are probably the four(five) with the most steam.

 

[413Blue]

So after brief rumors that a Plan B was being formalized, word is that no such plan exists in St. Louis: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_8432212e-c702-504c-aa47-3b1827662288.html

And more bad news out of San Diego, with SDSU pulling out of negotiations (and failing to paint a compelling case as to why, IMO): http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-sdsusoccer-20170516-story.html

Extrapolating bad news, as always, gives a new potential lineup of:

25 - Sacramento
26 - Tampa
27 - Phoenix
28 - Nashville/Cincinnati

Simply because they're the ready ones. Who knew MLS expansion was so complicated? /trump

Important to note that in SD, the mayor basically said screw SDSU we are moving forward with the Soccer development without them.

 

[Ulrich]

Important to note that in SD, the mayor basically said screw SDSU we are moving forward with the Soccer development without them.

$100M is a big piece of pie for the mayor to feed his constituents. That wasn't infrastructure improvements SDSU was paying for, but rather real construction costs - now the city wants to do both?

 

[sbrylski]

Cincy has the organization but the city is practically bankrupt. Do they have a private stadium plan or are they floating to stay on the UCincy campus?

Otherwise, those are probably the four(five) with the most steam.

Cincy allegedly has two sites they are considering for a privately financed venue, but they aren't making it public.

 

[413Blue]

$100M is a big piece of pie for the mayor to feed his constituents. That wasn't infrastructure improvements SDSU was paying for, but rather real construction costs - now the city wants to do both?

Not to mention SDSU's vision for the property is basically to have it given to them so they can sit on it for a generation or two until they are able to develop it. It's an awful deal for the city, who can actually generate much needed revenue from the property now, not 30-50 years from now. The FS Investors (The MLS group) are making a pure play for the land grab, but they are making a pretty fair and reasonable offer that nobody else has any interest in matching. Not to mention they are taking a polluted site which is a massive money pit and turning it into a tax revenue and job generating development.

 

[21Architect]

tampa has the following...miami can be the biggest mistake if they force it.....people go for their international teams not a local one in soccer....i mean look at marlins....only dolphins seems to be followed ......i think the U may have more of a following

<-------------Miami resident and diehard Marlins fan here

As much as I wish I could say you're wrong, you're dead right.