Formation Speculation

[kun]

You're wrong.

Hey, you asked for it.

But truly, I'd rather have Poku central. Or a better way of saying it might be that I'd rather have Frank/tommy right and Poku central than vice versa.

I also prefer dropping Jacobsen and bringing on Mullins. See my post in the Pirlo conjecture. I want goals.

None of this matters of course because none of us have Grabavoy in our lineups, so we're all just dreaming even beyond typical message board chatter.

Like this?
-----Villa-------------------Mullins-----------------------Mix
--------------------Poku----------------Lampard
--------------------------------Pirlo
---Angelino--------------------------------------------------Iraola
--------------------Facey------------Mena/Hernandez
------------------------------Saunders

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Note I said "almost." As in, he's a playmaker, but not in an advanced 10 position. He was an 8, when he had the legs for it to go full box-to-box. So what can you call him? A playmaker that generally hangs out in the middle of the field, creeping late into box. In other words, almost a regista.

You don't have to play right in front of the defense to be a regista. My defintion is a playmaker who sits behind the runners and dictates play and distributes. You can do that from CM.

I just don't see him picking passes and creating. At this point, I see him as basically a consummate example of a luxury player (to the extent that it makes my characterization of Villa as such quite silly). You basically have to play him in a place where he has very limited true responsibilities on either end. He's intelligent enough to see spaces and sneak in, but I think making him a focal point in any way would actually diminish his impact.

 

[kun]

He'll have pretty much 1 job, to score goals. He does that excellently but he's not a playmaker. I mean, he can pick a pass but he's not gonna run games like Pirlo or Kaka. His best attribute(s) is finding space in and around the box and finishing.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Midas we get it. That's enough

Huh? What does that mean? You don't like us talking about how to line up the squad?

 

[Midas Mulligan]

He'll have pretty much 1 job, to score goals. He does that excellently but he's not a playmaker. I mean, he can pick a pass but he's not gonna run games like Pirlo or Kaka. His best attribute(s) is finding space in and around the box and finishing.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Anyway, as to your formation, here's what I was thinking:

            -------Pirlo-------

-------mix Lampard dual 8-----

     ---------Poku-----------
                      -------------Villa/Mullins----

----------Mullins/Villa---------

Basically, you have a narrow 4-3-2-1 (or 4-1-2-1-1-1, we could call it anything from a 4-5-1 to a 4-3-3 or whatever). Mullins and Villa have free reign to move back and forth. Okay, Villa goes where he wants and Mullins fills the other area. Poku pinched narrow but leaning right, as he seems to like to start from slightly on that side anyway.

If we need more cover, Mix hangs back a bit. Or, as I originally said, we just hang 7 spots on everyone.

The way I see it, Pirlo doesn't want Jacobsen back there when we have the ball because it frees another defender to come back there thus eating up his room. He'd be better off with the CBs spread as relief options, as he would welcome the opportunity to hit passes against a defense who is outnumbered (meaning if they try to press him with more than one player). Holding someone else back takes at least one option away. Since I think that's he's going to tell Jacobsen or whomever is out there to get the hell away, I'd rather have Mix handle any recovery run duties because I think he's better at it.

 

[kun]

That's what I'm trying to say.

Anyway, as to your formation, here's what I was thinking:

            -------Pirlo-------

-------mix Lampard dual 8-----

     ---------Poku-----------
                      -------------Villa/Mullins----

----------Mullins/Villa---------

Basically, you have a narrow 4-3-2-1 (or 4-1-2-1-1-1, we could call it anything from a 4-5-1 to a 4-3-3 or whatever). Mullins and Villa have free reign to move back and forth. Okay, Villa goes where he wants and Mullins fills the other area. Poku pinched narrow but leaning right, as he seems to like to start from slightly on that side anyway.

If we need more cover, Mix hangs back a bit. Or, as I originally said, we just hang 7 spots on everyone.

The way I see it, Pirlo doesn't want Jacobsen back there when we have the ball because it frees another defender to come back there thus eating up his room. He'd be better off with the CBs spread as relief options, as he would welcome the opportunity to hit passes against a defense who is outnumbered (meaning if they try to press him with more than one player). Holding someone else back takes at least one option away. Since I think that's he's going to tell Jacobsen or whomever is out there to get the hell away, I'd rather have Mix handle any recovery run duties because I think he's better at it.

I quite like that, I'd call it a diamond I think. I still think that side would be better served if Lampard and Poku swapped positions as Poku has more energy to cover and Lampard is a better goalscorer, so get him near the goal.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I quite like that, I'd call it a diamond I think. I still think that side would be better served if Lampard and Poku swapped positions as Poku has more energy to cover and Lampard is a better goalscorer, so get him near the goal.

Fuck me. It pretty much is, now that you mentioned it. It wasn't in my head, anyway.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Fuck me. It pretty much is, now that you mentioned it. It wasn't in my head, anyway.

Following up on why it was less of a diamond in my mind, kun - I was seeing that left side attack role as a LW/LAM/LF role, more in line with Poku on the right but just ahead of him.

The spacing doesn't show up quite perfectly here, but it is better than me typing 1000 words to describe and still failing.

Mix starts a bit further back than FF and cheats wider when possible. If Villa drifts wider on the left, Lampard can slide up where we look almost like a 4-2(1-1)-3-1. If Villa pinches in more, Lampard widens to LCAM or just walks around somewhere until he decides he wants to try the old Muller Hello.

 

[SayWhat44]

Following up on why it was less of a diamond in my mind, kun - I was seeing that left side attack role as a LW/LAM/LF role, more in line with Poku on the right but just ahead of him.

The spacing doesn't show up quite perfectly here, but it is better than me typing 1000 words to describe and still failing.

View attachment 3138

I love this line up. I think Angelino's pace helps cover Lampard even though I think his and Pirlo's lack of pace has been over blown a little bit.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I love this line up. I think Angelino's pace helps cover Lampard even though I think his and Pirlo's lack of pace has been over blown a little bit.

May be. Looking at my lineup, I sort of lean toward Kjbert 's idea of flipping Facey and Mena, if Facey would be comfortable swapping to the right side. If I remember the Mena highlight vids correctly, I think he played more on the left side.

I get the sense he's now the fastest cb we have and would challenge most anyone on the squad for pace except Shelton.

Going that route would appropriate that speed to closing down any counters springing from the
lack of midfield cover when Angelino gets forward.

I also think we can probably rely on Lampard's game acumen to understand when/if he needs to hang back. It's not like he just barrels into the box on every attack. He's all about ghosting in anyway, so it won't impact his game so much.

Our front 5 in this setup are very "total football" roles. The one who has the least to worry about positioning wise is Poku, and I think that's best for him and the team. The rest of those guys understand spacing and see the game really well. I don't think we'd get caught out quite as badly as it has been made out to be.

As to defending, I'm adding this point, as I think it's extremely important and hasn't been mentioned too much: Let's not understate how much we can pin back wingers with our possession and attacking prowess. If you have Villa and Angelino coming down that left with FF hanging around, not many teams are going to have the balls to not pull their wide attackers back to help defend. Knowing that Lampard or Poku or Mix can pop-up in the middle or Pirlo hit a 30 yard screamer at any time means they can't just send their central mids wide to help.

 

[SayWhat44]

May be. Looking at my lineup, I sort of lean toward Kjbert 's idea of flipping Facey and Mena, if Facey would be comfortable swapping to the right side. If I remember the Mena highlight vids correctly, I think he played more on the left side.

I get the sense he's now the fastest cb we have and would challenge most anyone on the squad for pace except Shelton.

Yeah he certainly seemed like he a lot of pace on Sunday and covered a lot of ground.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Yeah he certainly seemed like he a lot of pace on Sunday and covered a lot of ground.

Sorry for adding so much after the fact. I decided I needed to better explain why I like this lineup and how I see it working. Yeah, it's dorky to spend so much time thinking about it. But we're all here doing it, so I figure we have a nice trust tree.

 

[SayWhat44]

Sorry for adding so much after the fact. I decided I needed to better explain why I like this lineup and how I see it working. Yeah, it's dorky to spend so much time thinking about it. But we're all here doing it, so I figure we have a nice trust tree.

 

[MagnusPax]

I love this line up. I think Angelino's pace helps cover Lampard even though I think his and Pirlo's lack of pace has been over blown a little bit.

Only problem there is absolutely no one is playing defense on the left, especially Angelino. Without someone like AJ or Calle in there to help Angel out, that's a pretty gaping hole in the defense. Give MLS clubs one game to figure out the right counter to that.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Only problem there is absolutely no one is playing defense on the left, especially Angelino. Without someone like AJ or Calle in there to help Angel out, that's a pretty gaping hole in the defense. Give MLS clubs one game to figure out the right counter to that.

So you don't think we would pin folks back enough to help that cause and/or be able to rely on Frank reading the game? There are no CR7 types that a coach will let hang out while the fullback runs by, are there?

The only teams I'd be really worried about killing us with that are LAG, RBNY and NER (I think, just shooting from the hip on that list).

I don't think we will go with this anyway. It's just what I like best as far as getting our best players in as close as possible to their optimal positions to thrive.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

So you don't think we would pin folks back enough to help that cause and/or be able to rely on Frank reading the game? There are no CR7 types that a coach will let hang out while the fullback runs by, are there?

The only teams I'd be really worried about killing us with that are LAG, RBNJ and NER (I think, just shooting from the hip on that list).

I don't think we will go with this anyway. It's just what I like best as far as getting our best players in as close as possible to their optimal positions to thrive.

I would love teams to leave their fullback on an island and let Angelino and Calle work them 2 on 1. I think we score way more in that scenario than they do by letting the wing sit in space.

 

[MagnusPax]

So you don't think we would pin folks back enough to help that cause and/or be able to rely on Frank reading the game? There are no CR7 types that a coach will let hang out while the fullback runs by, are there?

The only teams I'd be really worried about killing us with that are LAG, RBNJ and NER (I think, just shooting from the hip on that list).

I don't think we will go with this anyway. It's just what I like best as far as getting our best players in as close as possible to their optimal positions to thrive.

While I do agree there is quality in that lineup, Pirlo, Frank, Mix etc aren't running over towards the left to help, well if they did they will be too late.

I think there are a number of teams that will kill us with that. Imagine what Giovinco, or Portland could do with their speed in the offense.

 

[sbrylski]

I'm really surprised the lack of attention defense gets in this thread. It's all we can complain about during the games, yet afterwards everyone comes here and only thinks about the attack.

We have been burned defensively for much of the year, and we are adding two 36+ year olds to the midfield after already adding two extremely attacking fullbacks. In what reality is it now time to pull Jacobson off the field for Poku in an advanced position?? We'll get steamrolled every time we turn the ball over (and no, the addition of Pirlo doesn't jack our passing accuracy up to 100%).

The way I see it, Pirlo doesn't want Jacobsen back there when we have the ball because it frees another defender to come back there thus eating up his room.

Once again, Pirlo doesn't play the defensive role, and of course he's fine with his teammate "eating up his room" when the alternative is being left on an island to stop counter attacks by himself. For Juventus, he's had two partners back there on defense, Marchisio and Vidal. They just happen to also run forward because they are freaks of nature. For the Italian national team, Di Rossi has played next to him to fulfill the role, so the rest of the team can play forward.

We can try to be creative and cute in this thread all day long (and we will), but the simplest answer is Pirlo and Jacobson in the back, Villa up top, and then throw three more mids (or 2 mids and 1 forward if Villa needs help) on the field and let them play fluid. Done.

 

[Gavin23]

Following up on why it was less of a diamond in my mind, kun - I was seeing that left side attack role as a LW/LAM/LF role, more in line with Poku on the right but just ahead of him.

The spacing doesn't show up quite perfectly here, but it is better than me typing 1000 words to describe and still failing.

Mix starts a bit further back than FF and cheats wider when possible. If Villa drifts wider on the left, Lampard can slide up where we look almost like a 4-2(1-1)-3-1. If Villa pinches in more, Lampard widens to LCAM or just walks around somewhere until he decides he wants to try the old Muller Hello.

View attachment 3138

This is the exact formation I used for my NYCFC career mode.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I'm really surprised the lack of attention defense gets in this thread. It's all we can complain about during the games, yet afterwards everyone comes here and only thinks about the attack.

We have been burned defensively for much of the year, and we are adding two 36+ year olds to the midfield after already adding two extremely attacking fullbacks. In what reality is it now time to pull Jacobson off the field for Poku in an advanced position?? We'll get steamrolled every time we turn the ball over (and no, the addition of Pirlo doesn't jack our passing accuracy up to 100%).



Once again, Pirlo doesn't play the defensive role, and of course he's fine with his teammate "eating up his room" when the alternative is being left on an island to stop counter attacks by himself. For Juventus, he's had two partners back there on defense, Marchisio and Vidal. They just happen to also run forward because they are freaks of nature. For the Italian national team, Di Rossi has played next to him to fulfill the role, so the rest of the team can play forward.

We can try to be creative and cute in this thread all day long (and we will), but the simplest answer is Pirlo and Jacobson in the back, Villa up top, and then throw three more mids (or 2 mids and 1 forward if Villa needs help) on the field and let them play fluid. Done.

I think the belief by many, is that since Jacobson sucks, that role will not be filled well, so don't waste it on him. I think if we had a better dmid option, no one would question what you are saying.