Formation Speculation

[SayWhat44]

I think the belief by many, is that since Jacobson sucks, that role will not be filled well, so don't waste it on him. I think if we had a better dmid option, no one would question what you are saying.

I don't think Jacobson sucks at all. He's been one of the most consistent performers for this club. Is he a star absolutely not but certainly serviceable which is better then a lot of the trash we've paraded out there this season.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I don't think Jacobson sucks at all. He's been one of the most consistent performers for this club. Is he a star absolutely not but certainly serviceable which is better then a lot of the trash we've paraded out there this season.

Eh...I still think he's sprung about as many counters with his giveaways as he's stopped.

He also seems to have no problem barreling forward. To what end, I don't know. I can't remember a single good touch or pass or shot he's had anywhere near the box.

 

[SayWhat44]

Eh...I still think he's sprung about as many counters with his giveaways as he's stopped.

He also seems to have no problem barreling forward. To what end, I don't know. I can't remember a single good touch or pass or shot he's had anywhere near the box.

Don't doubt Andrew!!!!!

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Don't doubt Andrew!!!!!

Wasn't that in Orlando's box? Oh, your point was more meme-y. Gotcha.

 

[FootyLovin]

I'm really surprised the lack of attention defense gets in this thread. It's all we can complain about during the games, yet afterwards everyone comes here and only thinks about the attack.

We have been burned defensively for much of the year, and we are adding two 36+ year olds to the midfield after already adding two extremely attacking fullbacks. In what reality is it now time to pull Jacobson off the field for Poku in an advanced position?? We'll get steamrolled every time we turn the ball over (and no, the addition of Pirlo doesn't jack our passing accuracy up to 100%).



Once again, Pirlo doesn't play the defensive role, and of course he's fine with his teammate "eating up his room" when the alternative is being left on an island to stop counter attacks by himself. For Juventus, he's had two partners back there on defense, Marchisio and Vidal. They just happen to also run forward because they are freaks of nature. For the Italian national team, Di Rossi has played next to him to fulfill the role, so the rest of the team can play forward.

We can try to be creative and cute in this thread all day long (and we will), but the simplest answer is Pirlo and Jacobson in the back, Villa up top, and then throw three more mids (or 2 mids and 1 forward if Villa needs help) on the field and let them play fluid. Done.

Stop trying to confuse us with your logic and reality. This is a forum dammit. An online forum. No one here knows who I am and I'll be damned if I waste such a place with rationality and civility.

 

[sbrylski]

Eh...I still think he's sprung about as many counters with his giveaways as he's stopped.

To bring some stats to the conversation:

Jacobson has been dispossessed 0.9 times per game this season. Others:

Villa - 2.6
Shelton - 1.8
Seba - 1.8
Mix - 1.7
Mullins - 1.4
Mac - 1.2
Ned - 1.2
Poku - 1.1
Looch - 1.1

In other words, he's actually pretty solid with the ball.

In passing accuracy, he's at 79.7%.

That's below Seba, Ned, Allen, Facey, Mix, Wingert, and Poku. It's above Hernandez, Looch, Calle, Angelino, Brovsky, Villa, Mac, Shelton, Mullins.

So, he's middle of the pack. But, that's when we've been asking him to try to do some distributing out of the back. From now on, 99% of his passes should go exactly 10 feet to Pirlo, who will distribute forward.

This is a super small sample, but in fact, last game with Pirlo he had a 83.7% passing accuracy in 49 passes. It could stay higher now that he's asked to do less.

Jacobson is not flashy, doesn't do anything overwhelmingly well, and is definitely not a very technical player. But he's more or less solid at what he's expected to do - harass attacking midfielders and be available for safety passes.

He also seems to have no problem barreling forward. To what end, I don't know. I can't remember a single good touch or pass or shot he's had anywhere near the box.

This is correct and is a problem. According to whoscored.com, they classify him as having played 11 games as a CM and 9 games as a DM.

The question is who's fault this is. Does Kreis tell him to run forward some games (we generally suck those games), or does he do it on his own? If he can play the role he's actually on the field for, he's fine being in our lineup.

 

[sbrylski]

I just don't see him picking passes and creating. At this point, I see him as basically a consummate example of a luxury player (to the extent that it makes my characterization of Villa as such quite silly). You basically have to play him in a place where he has very limited true responsibilities on either end. He's intelligent enough to see spaces and sneak in, but I think making him a focal point in any way would actually diminish his impact.

I just wanted to quote this to point out something we agree on. At this point, I'm not totally sure how we should use Lampard, and frankly I'd rather not have him. He's as much a luxury as a mosquito is inside your bedroom at night.

I don't watch Man City, which means I haven't seem Lampard play in a game in, like, 2 years.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Stop trying to confuse us with your logic and reality. This is a forum dammit. An online forum. No one here knows who I am and I'll be damned if I waste such a place with rationality and civility.

False. Everyone knows who you and I are. If they want, anyway.

Eta: the rest applies.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

To bring some stats to the conversation:

Jacobson has been dispossessed 0.9 times per game this season. Others:

Villa - 2.6
Shelton - 1.8
Seba - 1.8
Mix - 1.7
Mullins - 1.4
Mac - 1.2
Ned - 1.2
Poku - 1.1
Looch - 1.1

In other words, he's actually pretty solid with the ball.

In passing accuracy, he's at 79.7%.

That's below Seba, Ned, Allen, Facey, Mix, Wingert, and Poku. It's above Hernandez, Looch, Calle, Angelino, Brovsky, Villa, Mac, Shelton, Mullins.

So, he's middle of the pack. But, that's when we've been asking him to try to do some distributing out of the back. From now on, 99% of his passes should go exactly 10 feet to Pirlo, who will distribute forward.

This is a super small sample, but in fact, last game with Pirlo he had a 83.7% passing accuracy in 49 passes. It could stay higher now that he's asked to do less.

Jacobson is not flashy, doesn't do anything overwhelmingly well, and is definitely not a very technical player. But he's more or less solid at what he's expected to do - harass attacking midfielders and be available for safety passes.



This is correct and is a problem. According to whoscored.com, they classify him as having played 11 games as a CM and 9 games as a DM.

The question is who's fault this is. Does Kreis tell him to run forward some games (we generally suck those games), or does he do it on his own? If he can play the role he's actually on the field for, he's fine being in our lineup.

You're making no adjustment for the fact that Dmids regularly push 90%. I'd also love to see a next-pass-after stat. It would have to be awful.

And I still just don't recall him breaking up a whole hell of a lot. I think he's a right shit player, but he tries hard. Sorry, man. I'll just believe my "lying eyes".

I also screamed about Brovsky for forever, and that's exactly the first guy they went out and got a replacement for. And the numbers supposedly said he was good, too. He wasn't. Neither is AJ. AJ is better than him, though. He's just bad on our team. Put him at Houston, and he could get minutes without sticking out so much.

 

[sbrylski]

You're making no adjustment for the fact that Dmids regularly push 90%. I'd also love to see a next-pass-after stat. It would have to be awful.

There is literally one player in MLS with a PS% over 90% - Osvaldo Alonso.

You're right he's a poor distributor, but he's not a turnover machine either.

And I still just don't recall him breaking up a whole hell of a lot. I think he's a right shit player, but he tries hard. Sorry, man. I'll just believe my "lying eyes".

Well, you can't say I didn't try!

 

[Midas Mulligan]

There is literally one player in MLS with a PS% over 90% - Osvaldo Alonso.

You're right he's a poor distributor, but he's not a turnover machine either.



Well, you can't say I didn't try!

The eyes do win a lot in this game, though. Most common metrics are pretty shit. As we see, by the ratings of AJ and Brovsky.

(Yes, word play quip was intentional.)

 

[kun]

In passing accuracy, he's at 79.7%.

That's well below average for a good CDM. Should be in the 80s at the very least.

You can't compare him to forwards like Villa and Mullins who often get long balls flung up to the at the edge of the box with their backs to goal. You can't really compare his stats to anyone else on the team as he's the only CDM we've had all season pretty much, and CDM is the easiest place not to lose the ball (particularly when you are as unambitious as AJ is in his distribution) and one of the most important positions not to. The fact that his passing accuracy is below players like Velasquez, Mix and Poku (players who actually try to make things happen offensively) just highlights how poor those stats are.

Having said that I'm surprised it's above McNamara and Ballouchy who seem to use the ball quite well comparatively.

 

[kun]

He's not an awful player like Kwame, Brovsky, Wingert or Grabavoy. He's a below average MLS midfielder.

 

[NickA]

Had a thought. The mere fact that this thread isn't dead, but alive and kicking...means that JK has no idea who and what to play. A formation should be established already...but we go into every game still wondering what formation he's gonna play and who his starting 11 is.

What is our identity? Do we have one? If someone said to you right now...what style does NYCFC like to play...without being sarcastic...what is your answer?

 

[The Toe]

Had a thought. The mere fact that this thread isn't dead, but alive and kicking...means that JK has no idea who and what to play. A formation should be established already...but we go into every game still wondering what formation he's gonna play and who his starting 11 is.

What is our identity? Do we have one? If someone said to you right now...what style does NYCFC like to play...without being sarcastic...what is your answer?

Mac actually talked about this in the post-game. He said it was weird having different lineups still this late in the season.

 

[sbrylski]

Alright, ignoring the whole Grabavoy thing, I also think Jacobson looked pretty ineffective out there. I've been his biggest advocate, but if he can't actually fulfill the role, we'll have to do it another way.

This is a pipe dream, we'll never switch to a 3-man back line on a whim, nor under Kries. But it would be neat to see something like this:

As for something more realistic (but still not realistic because I'm leaving Grabavoy off), the 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-2-1, depending on what you label Poku:

Even though Calle didn't impress last game, I don't know who else to put in that role. Jacobson? Ballouchy? Maybe Lampard, and start McNamara in the CAM, but then Mix is basically back in his unimpactful DM role because he's the only one who can cover deep.

Ugh, what a poorly constructed team.

 

[NickA]

Alright, ignoring the whole Grabavoy thing, I also think Jacobson looked pretty ineffective out there. I've been his biggest advocate, but if he can't actually fulfill the role, we'll have to do it another way.

This is a pipe dream, we'll never switch to a 3-man back line on a whim, nor under Kries. But it would be neat to see something like this:

As for something more realistic (but still not realistic because I'm leaving Grabavoy off), the 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-2-1, depending on what you label Poku:

Even though Calle didn't impress last game, I don't know who else to put in that role. Jacobson? Ballouchy? Maybe Lampard, and start McNamara in the CAM, but then Mix is basically back in his unimpactful DM role because he's the only one who can cover deep.

Ugh, what a poorly constructed team.

it's hard not to give Mac a spot. I think he's earned it. I agree on AJ..if he comes out, you have to put Mix there. He's the only one who can kinda play that role. I'd like him in a more creative spot... But it's better than sitting the bench and I think playing along side Pirlo would be good for him. Let AJ be a sub for Pirlo or Mix. AJ seems to have regressed. Again I'll say it a 100th time...Iraola needs to man up and play some defense. Back to the problem of JK. If we aren't going defensive, especially with one man up top, then why bother? Just put Mullins back in and try to out-score opponents. What a mess.

 

[Gotham Gator]

 

[FootyLovin]

I know everyone wants Mix in an offensive role, but our team is not constructed for that. So with the pieces we have, as NickA said, Mix is the best player we have to partner with Pirlo. Maybe we won't get as much offensive creativity, but on the other hand, I'm not so sure. The interplay between him and the Maestro would be pretty amazing to watch and might open some lanes forward. At this stage, I think you want your best XI on the field. So here is my vote:

----------Villa----------
-Calle--Lampard--TMac-
--------Mix---Pirlo-----
69--Mena--Facey--Iraola

My only frustration is that this lineup leaves off Poku who by rights should be playing up near Villa. On the other hand, he is a great sub for Lamp. Or you could try some combo of TMac/Lamp/Poku in the attacking mid line since they all float in JK's system anyway.

But however you slice it, the lineup doesn't have AJ and it doesn't have Ned. Thanks for the early season, but we have too much talent on the team now to keep them in the lineup.

 

[joe]

I've seen enough of the USMNT trying to force me to be a DMid or 6 to know that's not the best role for his skill set. We need him going forward.