He did. And then he was sent north with rob's letter legitimizing Jon! Haven't seen him again... But I'm not sure if that's the book version or show version. I've read and saw both so many years ago it gets hazy.
Game Of Thrones (spoilers)
- Thread starter MyBoyVilla
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He did. And then he was sent north with rob's letter legitimizing Jon! Haven't seen him again... But I'm not sure if that's the book version or show version. I've read and saw both so many years ago it gets hazy.
Then he's the missing piece. I totally forgot about him from the book.
Had a thought. Elia Martel probably married Rheagar by a Septon of the Seven. The Starks only built a Sept in Winterfell for Caitlin who was from the South. But Ned always prayed at the Weirwood and Lyanna most probably did too. Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna married at a Weirwood tree befor the old gods, not recognizing a marriage by the seven to Elia.
Also, that means the Lannisters not only killed Jon's Stark Family in the Red Wedding, but it was Gregor Klegan in Tywin's army who killed Elia and her infant children (Jon's half siblings).
Also, that means the Lannisters not only killed Jon's Stark Family in the Red Wedding, but it was Gregor Klegan in Tywin's army who killed Elia and her infant children (Jon's half siblings).
I'll buy the marriage under the old gods theory.
Btw, to your earlier point of the possible bastard name for Jon would be Rivers is incorrect, as that is for the river lands (Tully's domain) and the Targaryens are from Dragonstone, so he'd be a Waters, or possibly a Snow because of his mother Lyanna (as referenced by the last line).
From www.westeros.org:
Waters for King’s Landing and Dragonstone, Snow for the North, Pyke for the Iron Islands, Rivers for the Riverlands, Stone for the Vale, Hill for the Westerlands, Flowers for the Reach, Storm for the Stormlands and Sand for Dorne. Some believe that the bastard name for Targaryen bastards is Blackfyre, however Blackfyre instead was a name which Aegon IV’s bastard son Daemon was allowed to take upon being knighted; prior to this, he was Daemon Waters. This is supported by the fact that his half-brothers Aegor and Brynden used the Rivers name, because their mothers were of the riverlands, and Princss Elaena Targaryen’s bastard children by Lord Oakenfist had the last name of Waters.
You guys had me looking up Howland Reed theories last night. Unfortunately two of the most prominent, widespread ones both seem to have been knocked aside by the finale. One theory held that Reed had returned as the High Sparrow, causing problems for the Lannisters that way. Although interesting, it seemed a stretch to me, and since he just died, as did everything he built, it seems unlikely they would now suddenly reveal "oh by the way, that was the Howland Reed."
The other is that Meera is Jon's super secret twin sister. The idea is Lyanna had twins and Ned took one and Reed took the other. Apart from Howland being at the Tower of Joy there was little evidence for this except that Meera happens to look a little like Jon, and there were apparently off-screen hints she has a bigger role to play than we would think. There is also the 3-headed dragon prophecy to be fulfilled so people want to find the third head assuming Jon and Dany are 1 and 2. I never could find anyone explain how Meera is deemed true born. That would require that Howland confide in his wife and she went along with the charade, which is possible, but then sharpens the question of why Ned kept Catelyn in the dark, which was very painful for her. That's always been a question, but could be answered by saying his oath required he tell nobody and he held to that. But if Howland told his wife Ned just looks cruel.Anyways, since Bran saw Ned go into the Tower alone and get one and only one baby this theory is pretty much dead, unless you want to assume that some other midwives secreted Meera outside through the back door while Ned went in the front and gave her to Howland, then Howland rode off before he and Ned could ask each other "where did you get that baby?"
The other is that Meera is Jon's super secret twin sister. The idea is Lyanna had twins and Ned took one and Reed took the other. Apart from Howland being at the Tower of Joy there was little evidence for this except that Meera happens to look a little like Jon, and there were apparently off-screen hints she has a bigger role to play than we would think. There is also the 3-headed dragon prophecy to be fulfilled so people want to find the third head assuming Jon and Dany are 1 and 2. I never could find anyone explain how Meera is deemed true born. That would require that Howland confide in his wife and she went along with the charade, which is possible, but then sharpens the question of why Ned kept Catelyn in the dark, which was very painful for her. That's always been a question, but could be answered by saying his oath required he tell nobody and he held to that. But if Howland told his wife Ned just looks cruel.Anyways, since Bran saw Ned go into the Tower alone and get one and only one baby this theory is pretty much dead, unless you want to assume that some other midwives secreted Meera outside through the back door while Ned went in the front and gave her to Howland, then Howland rode off before he and Ned could ask each other "where did you get that baby?"
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Since you like doing research, you should go look up the theory that the third head of the Dragon is Tyrion. There's already evidence of his dragon-whispering abilities since he wasn't eaten whole, and other subtle hints by his "father" telling him he isn't a true Lannister..... it all started with the Mad King 's visit to Casterly Rock and doing what kings have sometimes taken he liberty to do....
and I've read about the Meera/twin theory.... there needs to be a lot more revealed to make it stick unless the reader-verse has collectively missed every clue.
I'm familiar with it. I don't love it but I also admit it seems to be the most likely outcome, especially now with almost everyone else dead.
Yes, but I'm still assuming, perhaps wrongly, that on the big issues they will end similarly.
Howland Reed is alive in the books but didn't march South. Maege Mormont and some others I can't recall were sent to find him before the Red Wedding and haven't been heard from since.
Bastard names are usually by where a child is raised, hence Snow. It would have been Sand if it was by birth place.
I found the evidence for HR=HS really interesting but never thought the theory made plot sense.
Bastard names are usually by where a child is raised, hence Snow. It would have been Sand if it was by birth place.
I found the evidence for HR=HS really interesting but never thought the theory made plot sense.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing that has happened in the show that is contradicted by the books. Things are not exactly the same, but I believe there's nothing from the books that will prevent them from getting exactly where the show is.
Thought about the Meera theory more and while people have noticed she looks like Jon Snow, it's also apparent she doesn't look like her brother, Jojen Reed... And yet Jojen looks very much like his father Howland....
So either recessive genes are at work, Meera takes after her mother (whomever she is), or the casting agent wasn't instructed to find two actors that look like siblings.
There are several people dead on the show that are alive in the books.
Them being alive in the books creates more possibilities for the books, but doesn't void Fred's point that the books can end up where the series does. Really as long as 3-5 main characters live, maybe even with just the 3 heads of the dragon, the endings can be the same in the truly important respects.
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