Game Of Thrones (spoilers)

[mgarbowski]

do you think that Jon's oath has been completed and no longer valid since he has technically already died since making it?

He's at least arguably a special case. He died. I won't fight it. Also I wonder if he can't be killed, as in "what is dead may never die."

 

[Ulrich]

Long before that he basically took a wife. Sam's a nice guy with many virtues, but fealty to the Oath has not been among them.


I know at least one Wiki says the Watch disbanded. But was this ever formally done? And even if it was, I don't think that should absolve the men of their oaths. The Oath says their watch does not end until their death. Not when the Wall falls, not when the Night King is defeated. And not even if the organization falls apart. I don't see how the Oath does not stand, and if the showrunners and GRRM disagree with me, then to hell with them.

I don't see how they are released without an act of the King or Queen, or religious act, or something like that. And though I can certainly imagine some might just decide EFF it, the world has changed and the oath no longer applies, I cannot imagine that being unanimous, and there would be fights over it.

Hell, that the Wall has fallen makes their duties more important, not less. As for defeating the walker invasion, the Watch was founded -- and the wall was built -- after they just beat back a prior invasion. So even if they win this there's no reason to think there won't be another in a thousand years or whatever. Maybe they achieve some sort of total unambiguous victory but that's getting ahead of ourselves, and with magic and such anyway how they could possibly know for certain? Is someone going up North to conduct a thorough census and check if the walkers left behind a remnant? Even if they did not unless the Children of the Forest also are dead then the threat is not gone. If the Children live (and I don't see their extermination as either a goal or a likely outcome), then nothing is completely over.

The men of the Nightswatch who worship the old gods took their oath beyond the wall in front of a heart tree. The voice behind the tree is the three-eyed raven, so in essence, that group of men took their vows before Bran and his predecessor, so Bran could release them from their vows.

The guys that took it in a sept, well, they’re fcked, although maybe not since the High Septon was blown up and he was the de facto voice of the seven gods.

 

[mgarbowski]

The men of the Nightswatch who worship the old gods took their oath beyond the wall in front of a heart tree. The voice behind the tree is the three-eyed raven, so in essence, that group of men took their vows before Bran and his predecessor, so Bran could release them from their vows.

The guys that took it in a sept, well, they’re fcked, although maybe not since the High Septon was blown up and he was the de facto voice of the seven gods.

Bran, a tree, whatever. I just want a damn ceremony.

 

[Seth]

Long before that he basically took a wife. Sam's a nice guy with many virtues, but fealty to the Oath has not been among them.


I know at least one Wiki says the Watch disbanded. But was this ever formally done? And even if it was, I don't think that should absolve the men of their oaths. The Oath says their watch does not end until their death. Not when the Wall falls, not when the Night King is defeated. And not even if the organization falls apart. I don't see how the Oath does not stand, and if the showrunners and GRRM disagree with me, then to hell with them.

I don't see how they are released without an act of the King or Queen, or religious act, or something like that. And though I can certainly imagine some might just decide EFF it, the world has changed and the oath no longer applies, I cannot imagine that being unanimous, and there would be fights over it.

Hell, that the Wall has fallen makes their duties more important, not less. As for defeating the walker invasion, the Watch was founded -- and the wall was built -- after they just beat back a prior invasion. So even if they win this there's no reason to think there won't be another in a thousand years or whatever. Maybe they achieve some sort of total unambiguous victory but that's getting ahead of ourselves, and with magic and such anyway how they could possibly know for certain? Is someone going up North to conduct a thorough census and check if the walkers left behind a remnant? Even if they did not unless the Children of the Forest also are dead then the threat is not gone. If the Children live (and I don't see their extermination as either a goal or a likely outcome), then nothing is completely over.

Been thinking about the thousand year cycle for a couple of days when I first saw this question raised. Even if "we" win, winter is coming again (eventually). That makes me think the Watch would be pretty much perpetual.

 

[Ulrich]

Been thinking about the thousand year cycle for a couple of days when I first saw this question raised. Even if "we" win, winter is coming again (eventually). That makes me think the Watch would be pretty much perpetual.

There was Winter before there were White Walkers, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that there is a time again without WW’s.

But I believe there’s gonna be a twist and somebody ends up becoming the next Night King, as a Greek Tragedy Type situation, beit Bran (the NK seems to have a crush on him and can always sense him) or maybe Jon, or even Gilly’s kid whose brothers are all members of the Night King’s guard..... how they get banished back above the broken wall, IDK, and how it gets fixed, IDK... and this theory could slide off the wall very easily too - no vested interest in it sticking.

 

[FredMertz]

I'm torn between wanting Cersei killed by Jamie (in a scenario mirroring his first kingslaying, as Cersei is on the verge of doing something that will let the Night King win) or by Arya, completing her list.

 

[BxLio91]

Sam mentioned a pardon during his convo with Dany so imo that how he gets released from his Nights Watch oath and get the title of Lord Tarly.

 

[adam]

Been thinking about the thousand year cycle for a couple of days when I first saw this question raised. Even if "we" win, winter is coming again (eventually). That makes me think the Watch would be pretty much perpetual.

Did the First Men ever defeat the white walkers in the past, or they only held them back with the wall? This is the Song of Fire and Ice. And contains the Prince Who Was Promied/Azor Ahai. It may mean the end of the White Walkers. Or maybe bringing balance means ice existing along with fire and there is a truce where the white walkers return north....

 

[FredMertz]

Sam mentioned a pardon during his convo with Dany so imo that how he gets released from his Nights Watch oath and get the title of Lord Tarly.

I think the Wall falling down released Sam from his Nights Watch oath.

 

[LostAnvil]

Interesting theory posed on Reddit -
The Night King takes Viserion to Kings Landing during the Battle for Winterfell - an army of the dead from the south would be much larger than the army he already has - Jon even commented last time he was there how more people live there than all of the North

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid

 

[Ulrich]

Interesting theory posed on Reddit -
The Night King takes Viserion to Kings Landing during the Battle for Winterfell - an army of the dead from the south would be much larger than the army he already has - Jon even commented last time he was there how more people live there than all of the North

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid

How would the Night King know about Kings Landing? The Targaryens built Kings Landing after the creepy northern children created the White Walkers.

 

[LostAnvil]

How would the Night King know about Kings Landing? The Targaryens built Kings Landing after the creepy northern children created the White Walkers.

very good question! my guess is he knows whatever Bran knows after he "touched" him in that vision

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Someone told me about Baelish still being alive.
It makes sense because when he arrives at Winterfell a woman who we see for the first and last time wishers something to him, your time is up. He hands her a coin. People believe this is a Bravoos coin and the woman then played him not knowing his faith.

 

[FredMertz]

How would the Night King know about Kings Landing? The Targaryens built Kings Landing after the creepy northern children created the White Walkers.

The same way he knew Daenarys would bring her dragon to rescue Jon Snow and the same way creepy Bran knows all the things he knows.

 

[Ulrich]

The same way he knew Daenarys would bring her dragon to rescue Jon Snow and the same way creepy Bran knows all the things he knows.

He didn’t know Daenerys would bring her dragons - what gave you that idea?

Bran knows what he knows because he can see through the eyes of crows.

 

[adam]

He didn’t know Daenerys would bring her dragons - what gave you that idea?

Bran knows what he knows because he can see through the eyes of crows.

He can also see anything a weirwood tree ever saw.

 

[Ulrich]

He can also see anything a weirwood tree ever saw.

Right, and the Night King can’t do any of those, so how would he know about Kings Landing (if the reddit theory does happen)? It just seems like the WW’s move like a hoard in a certain direction - they hit East Watch, as opposed to Castle Black, since EW is south of Hardhome. The Umbers were the first settlement south of East Watch, so that was obvious.

Now maybe the NK finds out about Winterfell and Kinglanding because it looks like the Umbers Keep was not only overrun but also ransacked, and as his entourage was making tribal art on the wall, the NK could have been kicking his feet up in the library or Maester’s area and reading about the society south of the wall. Who knows, but it seems plausible he could have learned something after that slaughter, and if that’s how the showrunners justify his knowledge, then I’d buy it so long as they somehow visually reference it.

Side topic: who is Nymeria going to kill??? The books describe her as having grown quite large and ferocious with a pack of her own, and I can’t imagine she’s not going to make an appearance this season.

 

[SFphoto]

I'm torn between wanting Cersei killed by Jamie (in a scenario mirroring his first kingslaying, as Cersei is on the verge of doing something that will let the Night King win) or by Arya, completing her list.

Arya all the way. But she still has a long way to go on her list. Hound, Mountain, Beric and Milesandre still to go.

 

[mgarbowski]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1118095204077264897

 

[adam]

Right, and the Night King can’t do any of those, so how would he know about Kings Landing (if the reddit theory does happen)? It just seems like the WW’s move like a hoard in a certain direction - they hit East Watch, as opposed to Castle Black, since EW is south of Hardhome. The Umbers were the first settlement south of East Watch, so that was obvious.

Now maybe the NK finds out about Winterfell and Kinglanding because it looks like the Umbers Keep was not only overrun but also ransacked, and as his entourage was making tribal art on the wall, the NK could have been kicking his feet up in the library or Maester’s area and reading about the society south of the wall. Who knows, but it seems plausible he could have learned something after that slaughter, and if that’s how the showrunners justify his knowledge, then I’d buy it so long as they somehow visually reference it.

Side topic: who is Nymeria going to kill??? The books describe her as having grown quite large and ferocious with a pack of her own, and I can’t imagine she’s not going to make an appearance this season.

I think the Nymeria story is done. At least in the show version. Writers went into detail about how it represented how Aria had chosen a new path, etc....