I was totally fine with this. Arya saw her father wrongly beheaded when she was a kid, learned how to hide for years, got extensive assassin training, took out half her list, and had an odd custom weapon made just the other day. Everything for the past seven years since GoT started leading up to this particular moment. Totally paid off.It was almost as jarring as seeing Arya running around scared out of her mind for a few minutes as seeing the sex scene, since we're so used to her as a bad ass, then she does that...lol
Is anyone certain of the number of dragons left? Did Jon’s die or just crash?I was totally fine with this. Arya saw her father wrongly beheaded when she was a kid, learned how to hide for years, got extensive assassin training, took out half her list, and had an odd custom weapon made just the other day. Everything for the past seven years since GoT started leading up to this particular moment. Totally paid off.
If Jon’s dragon survived, it had to have flown away to safety because it never showed up again to fight the dragon wight. And if it just landed on the ground, the wights would have attacked it like they did Daenerys’ dragon.Is anyone certain of the number of dragons left? Did Jon’s die or just crash?
I knew Arya couldn’t die without giving importance to her journey (and the Hound’s).
So who died? Jorah, Edd, Lyanna Mormont, Melisandre and who else?
Also, was Melisandre actually Syrio Forel, or is that a common thing to say?
I did not see Tormund, Gendry, or Missandei in the final scenes. Jon's dragon is unclear (as you note) and Ghost wasn't seen after the first charge (as noted above).So who died? Jorah, Edd, Lyanna Mormont, Melisandre and who else?
Perhaps it won’t calm your frustration with how things played out, but I read a quote by Martin who said his characters are specifically suspect to making the wrong, or at least unthought-out, decision at the most crucial juncture(s). It’s been that way for every season (hello Red Viper toying with The Mountain). And it played out last night on a grand scale, from the Dothraki, to the unexpected resurrection of the dead, to Daenerys landing her dragon on the field of battle rather than safely flaming from above, to the master plan to attack the dead in the open rather than at least defend from the height of the walls.I'm mixed on this episode. The pace was on point. It built up properly to that finish. Going in I figured it would go 1 of 2 ways: they could end it like they did, killing the Night King right at the end of the episode, or end the episode right at the most depressing low point of the battle when it seems all is lost and make us wait a week for the payoff. It left me wondering which way it would go almost right to the end. The Arya story was well done, though I had the same reaction as Davo15 watching her get scared and just run. It seemed quite out of character, but I suppose was necessary. The scene in the library was probably the most nerve-wracking in the show (though part of me was wondering why the walkers suddenly pause to languidly browse the stacks instead of rushing headlong to the next kill like usual). But some things fell flat to varying degrees.
- the worst was having the crypt dead come alive and start mauling people, spending a few beats with Sansa and Tyrion hiding, have them venture out bravely to their own expected deaths, only to have them walk a few feet and -- oh look -- here's every other major character in the crypts hiding safely behind another wall. The whole crypt thing was a pointless plot development, because it changed nothing and made them all look stupid for not anticipating it
- speaking of which, they had no plan at all to dispose of the thousands of expected fresh corpses and Jon looked completely surprised when the NK woke them and turned them against him like that wasn't the first thing they learned about the walkers in Season 1
- also shocked there was no surprise plan waiting for the Night King in the Weirwood. The whole plan was protecting Bran with a small band of Ironborn led by a man without all his fingers and no magic, surprise or secret weapon. I was sure something else would be revealed. Arya was not planned, and they obviously needed something like that, and the plan they had was doomed and they should have known that
- Bran: I'm going off now. Theon: where? Bran: nowhere important, and you won't see me doing anything like warging into a direwolf or gathering intel or spreading discord among the enemy or messing with the NK and distracting him because the writers kind of lost my thread
- reminds me, when was the last time Varys did anything important, and why didn't at least he die in the crypt? I suppose they have a plan for him in the last 3 episodes
- since nobody knew Melisandre was going to show up and light all the Dothraki blades on fire, what was the plan for them? Those blades are not dragonglass, nor Valyrian steel, so basically they were about to be the first force sent into the battle, and were doing so without any useful weapons
- btw, is Gendry's big hammer made of dragonglass? no, how about valyrian steel? no. Oh, again, nice plan Gendry. And yet he lives (I think)
- yes, most of my complaints are the same: suddenly all the good guys got very very stupid, which brings me to
But for all that the episode did what it had to do. It finished off a major story arc and clears the way for 3 final episodes when people actually are clever, and plot properly against each other.
- Sam - he didn't get stupid, but he suddenly lacked courage and was all but useless. There were multiple shots of him about to get killed until someone saves him from a WW, only to have Sam see that someone be killed by a different WW. I didn't want Sam to be a great warrior, but he should not have become pathetic either. He has faced danger including WWs before and acquitted himself honorably until last night
Maybe. I also understand that some of these things were done this way for a reason. Have no plan for the Weirwood so Arya can teleport in: surprise! The Dothraki had useless weapons so Melisandre could arrive in the most dramatic fashion possible, etc.Perhaps it won’t calm your frustration with how things played out, but I read a quote by Martin who said his characters are specifically suspect to making the wrong, or at least unthought-out, decision at the most crucial juncture(s). It’s been that way for every season (hello Red Viper toying with The Mountain). And it played out last night on a grand scale, from the Dothraki, to the unexpected resurrection of the dead, to Daenerys landing her dragon on the field of battle rather than safely flaming from above, to the master plan to attack the dead in the open rather than at least defend from the height of the walls.
The NK arc was always going to have a dumb ending just because of the stakes, but Arya deus-ex-helicoptering in out of nowhere felt particularly dumb. It's like they wanted us to forget about her after she left Mel's pep talk. I'd *almost* rather the NK reach towards his sword only to pull off a mask and reveal that Arya killed him off screen.Not going to lie. I’m pretty underwhelmed with the Night King arc. I’m hoping they still have a card to play in the final three episodes...
FWIW, read something this morning that said Tormund, Missandei, and Jon's dragon are alive. Disclaimer on my OP is that I only watched the episode once and am fully on the 'GOT is shot too dark' train.I did not see Tormund, Gendry, or Missandei in the final scenes. Jon's dragon is unclear (as you note) and Ghost wasn't seen after the first charge (as noted above).
Aside from Arya's storyline, I was underwhelmed by the episode. Part of the "shot too dark" club as well.
Felt they didn't follow the parts of LOTR that made Helm's Deep so great, panning from character to character for a few moments to see the chaos they were facing, and tell mini stories within the whole battle. They really only did this with Arya, which is one of the reasons why I think I only enjoyed her scenes throughout the episode. Tip of the cap to Beric as well.
Dany and Jon were eh. Not enough time on Jamie, Brienne, Giantsbane, and Pod. Saw them in the beginning of the fight and then one or two moments that only lasted a few seconds fighting on top of piles of fallen wights. Would've enjoyed a few more scenes with them, to also show just how little hope was left and see them fighting for their lives.
Battle of the Bastards, Battle at Blackwater, Battle at the Wall, etc. were all more emotional and invested scenes/episodes. Could be the enemy being mindless wights, but I over-hyped this episode. Not as well executed as previous battles in my opinion.