Game Of Thrones (spoilers)
- Thread starter MyBoyVilla
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Don't think it's necessary since spoiler is in the thread title and there are already headlines with massive spoilers all over Yahoo but be warned major spoilers in the thoughts and analysis below !!
I was seriously worried for a bit there as it got late in the game they were going to end the ep on a cliffhanger.
It was almost as jarring as seeing Arya running around scared out of her mind for a few minutes as seeing the sex scene, since we're so used to her as a bad ass, then she does that...lol
I'm surprised how minor the deaths were. I love Jora and that little girl was the most bad ass awesome little girl ever but I really thought we'd lose Brianna and Grey worm at the least if not a Stark or Lannister brother.
Sort of always thought we'd get a one on one John VS Night King battle interesting it was Arya for the kill.
I was seriously worried for a bit there as it got late in the game they were going to end the ep on a cliffhanger.
It was almost as jarring as seeing Arya running around scared out of her mind for a few minutes as seeing the sex scene, since we're so used to her as a bad ass, then she does that...lol
I'm surprised how minor the deaths were. I love Jora and that little girl was the most bad ass awesome little girl ever but I really thought we'd lose Brianna and Grey worm at the least if not a Stark or Lannister brother.
Sort of always thought we'd get a one on one John VS Night King battle interesting it was Arya for the kill.
I was totally fine with this. Arya saw her father wrongly beheaded when she was a kid, learned how to hide for years, got extensive assassin training, took out half her list, and had an odd custom weapon made just the other day. Everything for the past seven years since GoT started leading up to this particular moment. Totally paid off.
Is anyone certain of the number of dragons left? Did Jon’s die or just crash?
I knew Arya couldn’t die without giving importance to her journey (and the Hound’s).
So who died? Jorah, Edd, Lyanna Mormont, Melisandre and who else?
Also, was Melisandre actually Syrio Forel, or is that a common thing to say?
That felt worst than the 6 draws we had this season ... not enough deaths and the Night King was "defeated" too easily. I'm hoping for a nice twist next episode
Really tired and emotionally drained after that....
The beginning was so frenetic and dark (camera-wise) that it was difficult to keep track of who was killing who, other than it was just a massive blood bath. Pretty crazy that basically every plan devised for deploying the troops was a massive failure except for the Unsullied standing tall protecting the retreat. The defenders would have been better off just keeping the soldiers inside of the walls and have dug a burning trench about four times as wide (who’d have guess the wights would form an undead bridge through the flames?). And a little surprised the wall defenders didn’t have burning oil to pour. But holy hell the parapet scenes made the LOTR/TTT battles look like a grad school production. The carnage and panic was brilliant.
Kinda bothered me that it took 6+ seasons to get the most fearsome Dothraki hoard over the narrow seas and they were basically exterminated in a single pitch black calvary charge - I get it that it demonstrated how awesomely terrible the White Walkers were, but it was an anticlimactic fate for the horse lords, especially after having their scythe-swords blessed in fire.
Had a momentary thought that as the Night King was about to kill Bran, Bran would first warg into another character and stay there as his Stark body was killed.
Where’s Ghost?
Really curious which scenes were added in to extend the episode to 85min - what had been on the cutting room floor that they decided needed to be included and couldn’t premiere without? And what was shot that didn’t make it in????
Arya basically got about 3.5million experience points with her Night King kill and is now a Level 150Faceless Man. Her acting in this episode really showed some depth and range with the emotions. Love her character!
The beginning was so frenetic and dark (camera-wise) that it was difficult to keep track of who was killing who, other than it was just a massive blood bath. Pretty crazy that basically every plan devised for deploying the troops was a massive failure except for the Unsullied standing tall protecting the retreat. The defenders would have been better off just keeping the soldiers inside of the walls and have dug a burning trench about four times as wide (who’d have guess the wights would form an undead bridge through the flames?). And a little surprised the wall defenders didn’t have burning oil to pour. But holy hell the parapet scenes made the LOTR/TTT battles look like a grad school production. The carnage and panic was brilliant.
Kinda bothered me that it took 6+ seasons to get the most fearsome Dothraki hoard over the narrow seas and they were basically exterminated in a single pitch black calvary charge - I get it that it demonstrated how awesomely terrible the White Walkers were, but it was an anticlimactic fate for the horse lords, especially after having their scythe-swords blessed in fire.
Had a momentary thought that as the Night King was about to kill Bran, Bran would first warg into another character and stay there as his Stark body was killed.
Where’s Ghost?
Really curious which scenes were added in to extend the episode to 85min - what had been on the cutting room floor that they decided needed to be included and couldn’t premiere without? And what was shot that didn’t make it in????
Arya basically got about 3.5million experience points with her Night King kill and is now a Level 150Faceless Man. Her acting in this episode really showed some depth and range with the emotions. Love her character!
If Jon’s dragon survived, it had to have flown away to safety because it never showed up again to fight the dragon wight. And if it just landed on the ground, the wights would have attacked it like they did Daenerys’ dragon.
And yet, when the Night King raised the dead from the battlefield, he didn’t get Jon’s dragon, so maybe he is alive.
The crazy thing about the night king is that unlike most villains where we get a motivation for something happening, we literally get stone-cold silence. No words, no nothing. The only things we know about the night king are that
1) The children of the forest created him to defeat the terrible humans
2) He's a terrifying beast
3) He wants to kill all humans and the three eyed raven.
What made this episode brilliant, to me, is the way they executed the entire night king part. He has no emotions. He's silent. He doesn't say any words. He's a villain there solely to destroy humanity, no other motivation. The ultimate 'bad' villain. To me, the night king and Jon's scene plus the night king and Bran/Theon's scene were enough of a 'battle' sequence as well, because it's clear that no one can stand a chance against the night king. He's too powerful. Of course it's Arya come to save the day with a slick move that no one expected. The only way to kill such a horrid villain is to... pretend to die and lose grip of your knife? Crazy!
To me, that was a 75% satisfying ending to the night king. One one hand I wanted more, on the other I didn't.
...we still have 4 episodes left. wow
1) The children of the forest created him to defeat the terrible humans
2) He's a terrifying beast
3) He wants to kill all humans and the three eyed raven.
What made this episode brilliant, to me, is the way they executed the entire night king part. He has no emotions. He's silent. He doesn't say any words. He's a villain there solely to destroy humanity, no other motivation. The ultimate 'bad' villain. To me, the night king and Jon's scene plus the night king and Bran/Theon's scene were enough of a 'battle' sequence as well, because it's clear that no one can stand a chance against the night king. He's too powerful. Of course it's Arya come to save the day with a slick move that no one expected. The only way to kill such a horrid villain is to... pretend to die and lose grip of your knife? Crazy!
To me, that was a 75% satisfying ending to the night king. One one hand I wanted more, on the other I didn't.
...we still have 4 episodes left. wow
Not going to lie. I’m pretty underwhelmed with the Night King arc. I’m hoping they still have a card to play in the final three episodes...
I did not see Tormund, Gendry, or Missandei in the final scenes. Jon's dragon is unclear (as you note) and Ghost wasn't seen after the first charge (as noted above).
I'm mixed on this episode. The pace was on point. It built up properly to that finish. Going in I figured it would go 1 of 2 ways: they could end it like they did, killing the Night King right at the end of the episode, or end the episode right at the most depressing low point of the battle when it seems all is lost and make us wait a week for the payoff. It left me wondering which way it would go almost right to the end. The Arya story was well done, though I had the same reaction as
Davo15 watching her get scared and just run. It seemed quite out of character, but I suppose was necessary. The scene in the library was probably the most nerve-wracking in the show (though part of me was wondering why the walkers suddenly pause to languidly browse the stacks instead of rushing headlong to the next kill like usual). But some things fell flat to varying degrees.
Davo15 watching her get scared and just run. It seemed quite out of character, but I suppose was necessary. The scene in the library was probably the most nerve-wracking in the show (though part of me was wondering why the walkers suddenly pause to languidly browse the stacks instead of rushing headlong to the next kill like usual). But some things fell flat to varying degrees.- the worst was having the crypt dead come alive and start mauling people, spending a few beats with Sansa and Tyrion hiding, have them venture out bravely to their own expected deaths, only to have them walk a few feet and -- oh look -- here's every other major character in the crypts hiding safely behind another wall. The whole crypt thing was a pointless plot development, because it changed nothing and made them all look stupid for not anticipating it
- speaking of which, they had no plan at all to dispose of the thousands of expected fresh corpses and Jon looked completely surprised when the NK woke them and turned them against him like that wasn't the first thing they learned about the walkers in Season 1
- also shocked there was no surprise plan waiting for the Night King in the Weirwood. The whole plan was protecting Bran with a small band of Ironborn led by a man without all his fingers and no magic, surprise or secret weapon. I was sure something else would be revealed. Arya was not planned, and they obviously needed something like that, and the plan they had was doomed and they should have known that
- Bran: I'm going off now. Theon: where? Bran: nowhere important, and you won't see me doing anything like warging into a direwolf or gathering intel or spreading discord among the enemy or messing with the NK and distracting him because the writers kind of lost my thread
- reminds me, when was the last time Varys did anything important, and why didn't at least he die in the crypt? I suppose they have a plan for him in the last 3 episodes
- since nobody knew Melisandre was going to show up and light all the Dothraki blades on fire, what was the plan for them? Those blades are not dragonglass, nor Valyrian steel, so basically they were about to be the first force sent into the battle, and were doing so without any useful weapons
- btw, is Gendry's big hammer made of dragonglass? no, how about valyrian steel? no. Oh, again, nice plan Gendry. And yet he lives (I think)
- yes, most of my complaints are the same: suddenly all the good guys got very very stupid, which brings me to
- Sam - he didn't get stupid, but he suddenly lacked courage and was all but useless. There were multiple shots of him about to get killed until someone saves him from a WW, only to have Sam see that someone be killed by a different WW. I didn't want Sam to be a great warrior, but he should not have become pathetic either. He has faced danger including WWs before and acquitted himself honorably until last night
Perhaps it won’t calm your frustration with how things played out, but I read a quote by Martin who said his characters are specifically suspect to making the wrong, or at least unthought-out, decision at the most crucial juncture(s). It’s been that way for every season (hello Red Viper toying with The Mountain). And it played out last night on a grand scale, from the Dothraki, to the unexpected resurrection of the dead, to Daenerys landing her dragon on the field of battle rather than safely flaming from above, to the master plan to attack the dead in the open rather than at least defend from the height of the walls.I'm mixed on this episode. The pace was on point. It built up properly to that finish. Going in I figured it would go 1 of 2 ways: they could end it like they did, killing the Night King right at the end of the episode, or end the episode right at the most depressing low point of the battle when it seems all is lost and make us wait a week for the payoff. It left me wondering which way it would go almost right to the end. The Arya story was well done, though I had the same reaction as
- the worst was having the crypt dead come alive and start mauling people, spending a few beats with Sansa and Tyrion hiding, have them venture out bravely to their own expected deaths, only to have them walk a few feet and -- oh look -- here's every other major character in the crypts hiding safely behind another wall. The whole crypt thing was a pointless plot development, because it changed nothing and made them all look stupid for not anticipating it
- speaking of which, they had no plan at all to dispose of the thousands of expected fresh corpses and Jon looked completely surprised when the NK woke them and turned them against him like that wasn't the first thing they learned about the walkers in Season 1
- also shocked there was no surprise plan waiting for the Night King in the Weirwood. The whole plan was protecting Bran with a small band of Ironborn led by a man without all his fingers and no magic, surprise or secret weapon. I was sure something else would be revealed. Arya was not planned, and they obviously needed something like that, and the plan they had was doomed and they should have known that
- Bran: I'm going off now. Theon: where? Bran: nowhere important, and you won't see me doing anything like warging into a direwolf or gathering intel or spreading discord among the enemy or messing with the NK and distracting him because the writers kind of lost my thread
- reminds me, when was the last time Varys did anything important, and why didn't at least he die in the crypt? I suppose they have a plan for him in the last 3 episodes
- since nobody knew Melisandre was going to show up and light all the Dothraki blades on fire, what was the plan for them? Those blades are not dragonglass, nor Valyrian steel, so basically they were about to be the first force sent into the battle, and were doing so without any useful weapons
- btw, is Gendry's big hammer made of dragonglass? no, how about valyrian steel? no. Oh, again, nice plan Gendry. And yet he lives (I think)
- yes, most of my complaints are the same: suddenly all the good guys got very very stupid, which brings me to
But for all that the episode did what it had to do. It finished off a major story arc and clears the way for 3 final episodes when people actually are clever, and plot properly against each other.
- Sam - he didn't get stupid, but he suddenly lacked courage and was all but useless. There were multiple shots of him about to get killed until someone saves him from a WW, only to have Sam see that someone be killed by a different WW. I didn't want Sam to be a great warrior, but he should not have become pathetic either. He has faced danger including WWs before and acquitted himself honorably until last night
Maybe. I also understand that some of these things were done this way for a reason. Have no plan for the Weirwood so Arya can teleport in: surprise! The Dothraki had useless weapons so Melisandre could arrive in the most dramatic fashion possible, etc.
The NK arc was always going to have a dumb ending just because of the stakes, but Arya deus-ex-helicoptering in out of nowhere felt particularly dumb. It's like they wanted us to forget about her after she left Mel's pep talk. I'd *almost* rather the NK reach towards his sword only to pull off a mask and reveal that Arya killed him off screen.
They built up the NK and the army of the dead so much that there weren't a ton of good options. Dragonfire doesn't work, Jon sword fighting the NK would have been even worse, etc. Something probably could have been done with Bran/the Three Eyed Raven/weirwoods, but even that would have been hard to get right.
FWIW, read something this morning that said Tormund, Missandei, and Jon's dragon are alive. Disclaimer on my OP is that I only watched the episode once and am fully on the 'GOT is shot too dark' train.
Aside from Arya's storyline, I was underwhelmed by the episode. Part of the "shot too dark" club as well.
Felt they didn't follow the parts of LOTR that made Helm's Deep so great, panning from character to character for a few moments to see the chaos they were facing, and tell mini stories within the whole battle. They really only did this with Arya, which is one of the reasons why I think I only enjoyed her scenes throughout the episode. Tip of the cap to Beric as well.
Dany and Jon were eh. Not enough time on Jamie, Brienne, Giantsbane, and Pod. Saw them in the beginning of the fight and then one or two moments that only lasted a few seconds fighting on top of piles of fallen wights. Would've enjoyed a few more scenes with them, to also show just how little hope was left and see them fighting for their lives.
Battle of the Bastards, Battle at Blackwater, Battle at the Wall, etc. were all more emotional and invested scenes/episodes. Could be the enemy being mindless wights, but I over-hyped this episode. Not as well executed as previous battles in my opinion.
Felt they didn't follow the parts of LOTR that made Helm's Deep so great, panning from character to character for a few moments to see the chaos they were facing, and tell mini stories within the whole battle. They really only did this with Arya, which is one of the reasons why I think I only enjoyed her scenes throughout the episode. Tip of the cap to Beric as well.
Dany and Jon were eh. Not enough time on Jamie, Brienne, Giantsbane, and Pod. Saw them in the beginning of the fight and then one or two moments that only lasted a few seconds fighting on top of piles of fallen wights. Would've enjoyed a few more scenes with them, to also show just how little hope was left and see them fighting for their lives.
Battle of the Bastards, Battle at Blackwater, Battle at the Wall, etc. were all more emotional and invested scenes/episodes. Could be the enemy being mindless wights, but I over-hyped this episode. Not as well executed as previous battles in my opinion.
Didn't have a problem with the dark. I do think the mindless wight are more of an issue emotionally connecting. It's more satisfying to see a evil person get their comeuppance like Ramsay that made Battle of the Bastards so satisfying. It's why I think doing the Walkers first and then Cersei is the right chronological order for this. She just better not win... I can deal with a everyone dies ending since this is GOT and an overly happy ending doesn't seem fitting but a that smug , conniving piece of shit wins? I'll break my TV lol.
I had no problem with it being shot dark. I felt it was more real. That’s what they were dealing with on the battlefield.
The only light was coming from Winterfell lanterns. We had all the lights turned off in the house and had no issue seeing everything.
As for the dragon I’m 99% sure he’s alive. Once Danny/Jon leave the dragons they kind of roam. They don’t take direction as easily. When she fell off of hers the dragon flew away and didn’t come back for a while even tho she really needed him.
The only light was coming from Winterfell lanterns. We had all the lights turned off in the house and had no issue seeing everything.
As for the dragon I’m 99% sure he’s alive. Once Danny/Jon leave the dragons they kind of roam. They don’t take direction as easily. When she fell off of hers the dragon flew away and didn’t come back for a while even tho she really needed him.
Gonna be real unpopular reading through this thread. but this episode has summed up of what i have thought of the show since the books have ended. and thats that the writing has been pretty bad without him. Way too much reliance on CGI to fill in plots and solid writing. I hated almost everything about last night. The amount of plot armor and main characters not dying killed what made everything so good about this show to start the series. Not saying the necessarily had to die, but then dont put them in those sure death situations only to have them basically all come out of it alive completely unrealistically. There was no epic battle with the Night King, hell there was no real epic battle at all through the entire episode. They never explained where the hell Arya even came from to come flying in out of nowhere. Maybe theres a perfectly good explanation but i dont fucking know it. What the hell was Bran doing the entire episode, his taxes? Jon and Dany, especially Dany were pretty much fucking useless. The flying around on the dragon scenes were confusing as fuck i didnt know where they were flying or why 90 percent of the time. How many dragons are even left? Fuck, im annoyed. ready to be shit on and be told why im wrong, but its not gonna change how i felt about it.
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