Game Of Thrones (spoilers)

[NYCFC_Dan]

Just did some reading on Azor Ahai. Lots of clues point to it being Dany. Also about the red womans prophecy that Dragon Stone has dragons in its walls that will be awakened by Azor Ahai.
Could that be what Euron saw in the preview for next episode?

 

[Ulrich]

Just did some reading on Azor Ahai. Lots of clues point to it being Dany. Also about the red womans prophecy that Dragon Stone has dragons in its walls that will be awakened by Azor Ahai.
Could that be what Euron saw in the preview for next episode?

Let’s not talk about any of the leaked previews. It’s one thing for the official stuff from HBO, but not footage that’s not supposed to make the rounds.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Let’s not talk about any of the leaked previews. It’s one thing for the official stuff from HBO, but not footage that’s not supposed to make the rounds.

I’m not. In the preview after the last episode Euron stares up while on one of the arrow things and you can see his face is shocked. That’s what I’m referring to.

 

[Seth]

Well that was pretty satisfying. Didn't really expect all that destruction, but hey. And I would've put money on Arya doing in Cersei but whatevs.

One more.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

That was insane. I feel for Danny. Anyone she’s ever trusted that’s not still with her has died. Everyone that’s still with her has betrayed her trust.
The cinematography was incredible.

 

[Davo15]

That was insane. I feel for Danny. Anyone she’s ever trusted that’s not still with her has died. Everyone that’s still with her has betrayed her trust.
The cinematography was incredible.

Really that's what you take out of it? I kind of feel like in RL analogy we just traded Hitler for Stalin. I hope The Starks can manage to take her out next episode but fear it's going to go the other way around.

 

[Ulrich]

Felt the exact opposite.... was a rambling episode with no cohesion other than Daenerys’ evolution into the mad queen and burning down the city. So many characters had bit parts that didn’t push the story. Her threat about the fate to anybody that learns of Jon’s heritage/identity was telling - she wants to hold the crown regardless of her lacking position vs him. That pretty much summed up her character before going mental with the mass bbq roasting.

Best scene: Tyrion and Jamie’s farewell.

Worst scene: realizing Gregor looks exactly like dying Annakin Skywalker and still kicking with a dagger through the brain. Felt it didn’t do The Hound justice to beat him with the sword and it still not be enough.

Golden Company was just useless. Any real battle would have seen them harass the Northerners on their way down, weary from travel, and not simply wait at the walls. They were cannon fodder just like the Dothraki charge into darkness - and the showrunners needed a convenient way to rid the story of them w/o depicting a detailed battle.

Death of Cersei and Jamie was anticlimactic. Getting crushed, alone with nobody knowing their fate was meh. For all anybody knows, Cersei could have survived since the body won’t be found until they bring in a backhoe.

Guess that last scene was of Azor Ahai riding off. Still not sure how the prophecy kicks in since Arya killed the NK before being reborn amongst the smoke and salt (ash?) of that battle. Unless she’s gonna off Mad Daenerys to save the kingdom....

 

[adam]

Felt the exact opposite.... was a rambling episode with no cohesion other than Daenerys’ evolution into the mad queen and burning down the city. So many characters had bit parts that didn’t push the story. Her threat about the fate to anybody that learns of Jon’s heritage/identity was telling - she wants to hold the crown regardless of her lacking position vs him. That pretty much summed up her character before going mental with the mass bbq roasting.

Best scene: Tyrion and Jamie’s farewell.

Worst scene: realizing Gregor looks exactly like dying Annakin Skywalker and still kicking with a dagger through the brain. Felt it didn’t do The Hound justice to beat him with the sword and it still not be enough.

Golden Company was just useless. Any real battle would have seen them harass the Northerners on their way down, weary from travel, and not simply wait at the walls. They were cannon fodder just like the Dothraki charge into darkness - and the showrunners needed a convenient way to rid the story of them w/o depicting a detailed battle.

Death of Cersei and Jamie was anticlimactic. Getting crushed, alone with nobody knowing their fate was meh. For all anybody knows, Cersei could have survived since the body won’t be found until they bring in a backhoe.

Guess that last scene was of Azor Ahai riding off. Still not sure how the prophecy kicks in since Arya killed the NK before being reborn amongst the smoke and salt (ash?) of that battle. Unless she’s gonna off Mad Daenerys to save the kingdom....

Beware the pale mare.

“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal”

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Really that's what you take out of it? I kind of feel like in RL analogy we just traded Hitler for Stalin. I hope The Starks can manage to take her out next episode but fear it's going to go the other way around.

I’m not justifying what she did. She did go mad and that’s why. Since leaving Mareen nothing has gone her way despite her listening to and doing everything possible to please others.
She saved Winterfell and Jon/Sansa betray her trust for it. At no point when leaving Winterfell was there an indication that she was going mad.
She sacrifices her people for the north and her repayment is Sansa attempting to have her overthrown.
If that doesn’t happen and trigger the events that followed then those bells ring and everyone lives.
Danny was given no other choice than to go mad.

I don’t mind this season. I get why people are disappointed. If they went an extra season and drew it out to do it perfect I think people would of been just as disappointed by the lack of action. It’s a tough ask for them to get it right. Its been one hell of a ride and I’ll be more disappointed that it’s ending than how it’s ending.

 

[mgarbowski]

Not all but most of the problems this season come from being rushed. Maybe people would complain, but if so they would be wrong. The show has always excelled at scenes between characters having moments. Thank goodness we had the first 2 episodes of this season. They were the best. Clagane-Bowl and Cersei/Jamie both deserved more time and attention. I didn't want this ending for Jamie but it was consistent with all that went before and quite valid, but I'd accept it more easily if it were done better, and if they didn't sully him with a 3rd-tier regicide. Just let Euron get burned like everyone else. He didn't need or deserve a one on one death scene, even if they humiliated him at the end with his inaccurate "I killed Jamie" taunt to nobody. Also, Jamie heals even better than Jack Bauer from major torso wounds.

I really don't see a point to Arya's story in this episode unless as Ulrich posits it was an after the fact Azor Ahai thing, which is not very satisfying. Dany's turn to violent crazy has been telegraphed since the beginning. The problem is the final turn happened in 20 seconds, and was made worse because those closest to her ignored all the signs. I kept expecting the Knight Templar from Indiana Jones to pop out and tell Jon and Tyrion that they chose poorly.
Also, did she buy a dragon cheat code that suddenly made Drogon able to evade the Scorpion bolts so easily?

The most fun I had was reading twitter afterwards when lots of people emotionally invested in Dany went batshit loco. And did people really name their daughters after her? I feel sorry for those kids, not just for their names but because they have stupid parents, but those parents got what they deserved.

I have no patience for people stanning GRRM and blaming the showrunners. Martin had 8 years to write an ending and instead gave us fucking Nightflyers. The MCU made, what, 20-30 movies since his last book was published? Do the work.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1127778903030943746

 

[Davo15]

Definitely not hating on it like some I do have some issues,

Would have liked Cersei to get a more satisfying death. We did at least get to see her realize she'd lost everything but would have liked to see her get stabbed or something. Like reverse her and Euron's deaths. Not have Cersei actually fight someone but give her a personalized death and Euron impersonal .

Tyrion continues his decent into not being that smart anymore.

If I think Poor anyone in this episode (other than innocent civilians ) I think poor Varys not Danny. I think he honestly cared about the realm and tried to do his best.

There was like a 360 this episode between the dragons and scorpion bolts in effectiveness . I think this episode made more sense and it's like they had to take out the other dragon or it would be too easy..

I do think they've telegraphed that Danny might go dark side for a long time though it seemed slightly abrupt in the actual episode. I think it was always at least 50/50 we'd end up here. Danny has her hardcore fans who are not happy/will be in denial about that.

It's funny how people can watch the same thing and come to such different conclusions. I think Sansa was proved right and she's one of my favorite characters now along with the other Starks (I know she still has tons of haters out there ) I think her criticisms of Danny were valid and reasonable. Danny was like a crazy person in begging John not to tell (which I know she didn't know about but we did) and in refusing her entire council's advice to wait before launching a second war right after defeating the Night King. The army was depleted and it was clearly sensible advice and she sort of petulantly stomped her foot and said she's waited long enough and had to be queen now.

 

[mgarbowski]

And a few words on Varys:

I predicted he would die, but I didn't expect this. I thought he die like Moses in view of Promised Land. Varys would see someone he trusts take the throne but die and not live to see the fruits of his work. Instead he was roasted before that happens as the writers added in one last attempt to bridge Dany's arc from good to bad. Varys was always the only purely unselfish character. He served the realm, truly. He had no desire for power for himself or his family. It was no accident he was a eunuch, and lacked even nieces or nephews to care for. Of course he was not without flaws. As we were reminded, he manipulated and used everyone, even children, and allowed them to come to harm for his ends, even if those ends were public-spirited. He was truly the most balanced character who could spark real thought and debate about the use and misuse of power, and whether one may do evil so that good may come of it [correct answer: no]. I was disappointed that he had become pointless for most of the previous season and the early bits of this season, to the point that I just wanted him to die in the crypts of Winterfell. I'm sad they kept him alive just to function as an element in Dany's turn to evil. He was the weathervane and the harbinger. When she killed him of all people- and not just killed but burned him alive - it was the signal that her turn to madness and evil was complete. She could legitimately turn against Jon or Tyrion as self-serving potential rivals who acted for their own ends or power. But even she had to know that if Varys turned against her it was because he saw her as a threat to the people she claimed to serve, because that was always his only driving motivation. It doesn't speak well for Tyrion that he betrayed Varys either. Tyrion had to know this as well. That whole incident was a bad turn, necessitated because the writers needed a shortcut to indicate that Good Dany was completely gone.

Finally, I predicted Sansa takes the Iron Throne, but with all the damage to King's Landing and the castle I'm wondering if the land reverts to 7 kingdoms.
ETA: This last point also because Varys is dead.

 

[LostAnvil]

have you ever told a story to a child where you give them the setting, the characters, the conflict, etc., then you ask them to finish the story? that's how this season has felt

 

[joe]

have you ever told a story to a child where you give them the setting, the characters, the conflict, etc., then you ask them to finish the story? that's how this season has felt

No Azor Ahai, no valonqar, no regard for logical continuity or character development, no sense that the showrunners understand or care about the story. The Behind the Episodes segments usually make things worse.

I'm all for treating and enjoying the show as a separate entity from the books, but GRRM now has basically carte blanche to write whatever he wants and have it be lauded as being better than the show. So well played by him, I guess

 

[Ulrich]

No Azor Ahai, no valonqar, no regard for logical continuity or character development, no sense that the showrunners understand or care about the story. The Behind the Episodes segments usually make things worse.

I'm all for treating and enjoying the show as a separate entity from the books, but GRRM now has basically carte blanche to write whatever he wants and have it be lauded as being better than the show. So well played by him, I guess

Ignoring the Valonqar prophecy was just wrong and needlessly so. It’d have been so easy to work in to the script, and even continue the unbreakable bond between them..... could have been leading her to escape when the dragon lands next to them, and rather than allow Daenerys to flame her, Jamie kills Cersei to spare her the fried chicken effect. Jamie dies via the flame that engulfs both, while the irony lives that he offed his big sis.

It was just lazy-ass writing to ignore.

 

[Schwallacus]

I don't mind the episode, but I don't think it was particularly good. Just an "eh" from me.

-Anyone complaining that Dany suddenly turned mad must've missed every scene she's ever been in. She's burned and plundered every village/city/people she's conquered. Watched her brother die in front of her without a reaction in season 1. Burned the Dothraki/ex-Khaleesi mothers. Her going mad has been laid out in front of us, but the bell trigger was a shitty way for it to start/be triggered. She finally got her city to rule over, only had to burn everyone.

-Arya crumbling scenes were good, but they spent way too much time just following her around. Felt like 20 minutes of buildings fallen over 3 or 4 scenes could've been cut down to 1 or 2. She's also a wizard in being able to summon Shadowfax. I hope Gandalf doesn't need his horse in the coming weeks.

-I'll join the annoyed at scorpion lackluster aiming crew now. Go from able to hit dragons from way downtown to missing from a few feet away. The sun tactic was smart on Dany's part, but after the initial swoop down they had plenty of time to aim up again. Scorpions on the wall sat there with arrows up their ass waiting, only to get mowed down.

-I agree with Ulrich over the Golden Company being shit. Lazy to wipe them out in two seconds. At least let us see them fight for a minute or two. I enjoyed their armor design and wanted to see their brown bag belted pants in fighting action vs. the northmen/unsullied.

-Apparently the Dothraki are still there and fine after being wiped out and resurrected by the Night King?

-The Mountain launching Qyburn to his death was the best part of the Clegane Bowl. Fight was okay, but lazy in reusing the Oberyn-eye gauge. I would've enjoyed seeing the Mountain holding the Hound's face to a flame again, about to kill him/making him burn again only to have the Hound come back in a final "fuck you ***** brother" and stabbing him/burn his brother reversal move.

Meh. I'm just hoping for a full Return of the King-esque "where/how everyone ends up a few years later" type ending.

 

[adam]

Ignoring the Valonqar prophecy was just wrong and needlessly so. It’d have been so easy to work in to the script, and even continue the unbreakable bond between them..... could have been leading her to escape when the dragon lands next to them, and rather than allow Daenerys to flame her, Jamie kills Cersei to spare her the fried chicken effect. Jamie dies via the flame that engulfs both, while the irony lives that he offed his big sis.

It was just lazy-ass writing to ignore.

The prophecy is the little brother will have his hands around her neck till she turns pale white. Jamie did have his hands around her neck when the roof caved in. If he stabs her like he did the mad king, he surely doesn’t fulfill the prophecy.

 

[Ulrich]

The prophecy is the little brother will have his hands around her neck till she turns pale white. Jamie did have his hands around her neck when the roof caved in. If he stabs her like he did the mad king, he surely doesn’t fulfill the prophecy.

One hand around the neck pulling her in to the blade that stabs her heart from behind. Fulfills the prophecy with a different interpretation of the description.

Hell, I only gave it 10min of thought, give me a year of pre-production and I’d write the kinks out.

Edit: Jamie could even say to himself as he’s killing Cersei, “the things we do for love” when he realizes the irony of the situation of him putting her out of her misery.

 

[Rimil]

No Azor Ahai, no valonqar, no regard for logical continuity or character development, no sense that the showrunners understand or care about the story. The Behind the Episodes segments usually make things worse.

I'm all for treating and enjoying the show as a separate entity from the books, but GRRM now has basically carte blanche to write whatever he wants and have it be lauded as being better than the show. So well played by him, I guess

k I'm gonna out myself as a bit of a dork, I like anime/manga. Worst of all, I'm a filthy casual watcher/reader. Meaning not only am I derided by mainstream America but I am not really accepted by hardcore anime/manga lovers. I typically stick to the most popular stuff, which leads me to my point.

This whole thing feels sort of like Fullmetal Alchemist. The anime ran ahead of the manga and the anime show runners were allowed to make up their own story which really diverged from the official manga cannon. They ended up finishing the anime, then rebooted into a new series which literally rehashes 75% of the same story but finishes the final quarter true to the manga.

I absolutely believe this whole thing is a money grab. They blew passed the books (with a conspiracy theorist in me says the books where also suppressed intentionally), so they could finish GOT 1.0, making a shit ton of money. Than in a few years they will re-shoot the whole show as GOT 2.0 with the "true ending". Bringing back the old fans of the show and the book snobs who want to see the correct ending, effectively doubling the revenue off the same intellectual property. Creating a controversy that will just add fuel to the fire and create its own publicity. Then add back things like recasting drama and old cast cameos...... gawd the money will be obscene!

I'm just putting it out there so I'm on the record for when it does happen. I'll even cap my prediction. It'll be announced/leaked withing 5 years of the final book coming out.

 

[FredMertz]

They made Dany far madder than the mad king. The mad king tried to destroy what he had already lost

Dany actually destroyed what she had already won.

A whole different level of madness.