Is It That Some Of Our Euro Players Don't Care Enough Or What?

[ldent42]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's issues with dedication from our European players because they're foreigners. Or that American players would somehow serve us better.
Speaking in terms of "heart" and dedication and effort it's pretty obvious that one of our best examples is Poku, who is from Ghana isn't he? Lampard is the obvious choice to pick on. Villa has had his moments too, including in that embarrassing loss to the Galaxy. Facey has been great. Angelino and Iraola both appear to be in it, perhaps just having some adjustments to make. Pirlo I can't gauge. Since they were mentioned, rj is a doushe and shelton has been hurt for ages, but before he was hurt I seem to recall him being quite effective. Not sure what's up with mix but he played better yesterday than be had for last few games so perhaps he's getting his groove back.

 

[LionNYC]

Think of this team as NATO, the Americans are supposed to do all the work while the Europeans just fuck around.

 

[Gavin23]

Well Kreis has succeeded. His stupid comments and shitting on players has finally got our attention off of his incompetence and now we are on a witch hunt against foreigners who supposedly dont show enough heart or charachter.

And ofc the person to start this thread is Nycfcfan himself.

Half the players he mentioned dont even play for us anymore (Nemec? Alvarez?) Iraola angelino show heart. So do all the dps...even fat frank. Facey? Mena? They bust their asses. Mix? Same and hes american. Poku? Same. Everyones busting their ass and trying to win except Kreis who is once again and incompetent asshole who is toxic to this team

 

[ManhattanValley]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's issues with dedication from our European players because they're foreigners. Or that American players would somehow serve us better.

No-one's saying it, just heavily insinuating it.

Vancouver, DC United, Kansas City, Portland, Dallas, Jersey, Columbus...when I watch those teams, I never have a doubt where their head or hearts lie regarding what they're doing. I really can't say the same of all of our team....we have a lot of Euros and it's a known thing for them here.

Seriously, this kind of xenophobic dog-whistle shit is embarrassing.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Last time I checked, being European kind of depends on your nationality. But nevermind.



You can try and disguise this as being some kind of well-meaning concern about our players not having enough MLS experience, but I don't notice RJ Allen, or Khiry Shelton, or even Kwadwo Poku on your bizarre list up there. You cite various teams with mainly American players as somehow having more "pride" or "heart" than teams full of pesky foreigners who could never have the same kind of vague, scrappy intangibles, but I didn't notice it doing LA Galaxy any harm when they turned us over last week. Why don't Robbie Keane, Steven Gerrard or Gio dos Santos fit into your stereotype of 'Euro' pussies who are just here for a vacation?

Almost every successful team and league in the world benefits from signing foreign players. Unfortunately ours have been pretty poor this season. But I'm not going to default to the lazy cliche that foreigners just don't care, and that good old fashioned American guys would improve us just by playing with more "heart". It's a cliche you see from narrow-minded fans all over the world when the chips are down, and it does nothing but hold us back.

Holy shit.

The irony is that you have a need to confine everything to preset boxes which is something your liberal programming should also be against.

First of all, if I'm really anti-foreigners, why would I say that there's 3 Euros on my team that I think are beyond reproach? It kinda sinks your whole argument right there, doesn't it? Also, why wouldn't I also list Latinos, Africans or Asians? All of which have provided MLS with players that obviously care and don't care as well. I didn't say its impossible for our Euro players to care. I just said I question how much they do care. It's the fact that most Euros share the perception that MLS is a step down for them and maybe, in truth, it is. But you can see how that could create questions of their effort and compassion? I would leverage the same questions about American basketball players going to Europe.

Secondly, I never said WE NEED A LEAGUE OF AMERICANS AND ONLY AMERICANS! In fact, the leaders of most of the successful clubs in MLS aren't Americans either. Many are from Latino or African countries and are pretty happy to just be here and playing in this league.

Lastly, it might not be a case that they lack heart because they're evil rotten people. It might be a cultural divide, it might be the language, it might be they don't like the city, they don't like their position here, their mentally not tough enough to deal with the losing. I don't know but if your not giving it your all, for whatever reason, your heart is said to be lacking. Its as simple as that.

So stuff your PC bullshit.

 

[ManhattanValley]

Holy shit.

The irony is that you have a need to confine everything to preset boxes which is something your liberal programming should also be against.

First of all, if I'm really anti-foreigners, why would I say that there's 3 Euros on my team that I think are beyond reproach? It kinda sinks your whole argument right there, doesn't it? Also, why wouldn't I also list Latinos, Africans or Asians? All of which have provided MLS with players that obviously care and don't care as well. I didn't say its impossible for our Euro players to care. I just said I question how much they do care. It's the fact that most Euros share the perception that MLS is a step down for them and maybe, in truth, it is. But you can see how that could create questions of their effort and compassion? I would leverage the same questions about American basketball players going to Europe.

Secondly, I never said WE NEED A LEAGUE OF AMERICANS AND ONLY AMERICANS! In fact, the leaders of most of the successful clubs in MLS aren't Americans either. Many are from Latino or African countries and are pretty happy to just be here and playing in this league.

Lastly, it might not be a case that they lack heart because they're evil rotten people. It might be a cultural divide, it might be the language, it might be they don't like the city, they don't like their position here, their mentally not tough enough to deal with the losing. I don't know but if your not giving it your all, for whatever reason, your heart is said to be lacking. Its as simple as that.

So stuff your PC bullshit.

I don't think you're necessarily anti-foreigner, but you're clearly pre-occupied with the nationality of players, rather than their talent levels. Hence this entire thread's existence. Anyone who makes wild generalizations about an entire continent (like the one I've bolded above) should probably take a minute to rethink.

I'm not ever going to apologize for supposedly being 'politically correct'. I'm more concerned about how we #MakeNYCFCGreatAgain, and we'll probably need all kinds of nationalities to do it.

 

[Gavin23]

This thread is fucking retarded

 

[Seth]

Seriously, this kind of xenophobic dog-whistle shit is embarrassing.

Completely agree.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

I don't think you're necessarily anti-foreigner,

From your previous post:

Seriously, this kind of xenophobic dog-whistle shit is embarrassing.

You can exit my thread now that I've clearly proven you wrong.

Or do you just not understand the definition of xenophobic?

 

[ManhattanValley]

From your previous post:


You can exit my thread now that I've clearly proven you wrong.

Or do you just not understand the definition of xenophobic?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, pal. If you're willing to keep hoisting yourself with your own petard I'm quite happy to change my mind.

Anyway, moving on - I won't name names but I've felt disappointment with some, maybe many, of our American guys.

Now for some of them, I can't decide if it's the fact they're showing too much heart, or just the fact they're with a team that has never had the chance to gel and form a nucleus, yet. In any event, it's not been good.

That said there are 2 or 3 whose quality I wouldn't question. I applaud them, unfortunately, I can't name them either, to be impartial.

How do you guys feel? Are some guys missing quality, or just fitness and understanding?

 

[typicalcity]

Guys who I don't question:

Facey
Villa
Mix

Guys who I do question:

Iraola
Angelino
Lampard
Nemec
Pirlo
Alvarez

If your fed up of a young city eds lad with no first team experience send him back as he won't be learning much playing in that defence in that standard of football

 

[Gavin23]

I just want to say the guy who started this thread (NYCCFan) does not represent even a fraction of the fan community. Most of us support our players regardless of their national or ethnic origin and we dont throw players under the bus when leadership, coaching, management, and the front office have really let us down. Scapegoating mix or poku or the DP's is Kreis's thing.

 

[Mikeylito]

Wow! This has been fairly interesting.
First off, I was the one who coaxed NYCFCFan10 into naming names and for that, I humbly apologize. The spew of venom that has resulted from he following my suggestion is completely unnecessary. Everybody has a right to express their opinion and some of the vile that has resulted shows that lack of civility that I persistently refer to in my signature.

In other threads, I have referred to the fact that I don't watch much foreign futbol; so for me to comment on individual players would be absurd. This most especially includes Pirlo who I did not watch an iota of before he landed on these shores. I'm amused by how he's perceived because almost everyone who (professionally) comments about him comments how relaxed he is. During Galaxy/City, Twellman made some reference to Pirlo playing with a cigar and a martini. I wasn't upset; I thought it was funny.

If I've been too subtle before, let me be clear now. I think l'affaire Lampard has been a disaster. Aside the fact that it has been a clusterfuck from the very beginning, Lampard hasn't shown the common sense to keep his head down until he does something for which he can raise his head. This is the goof who met with Chelsea supporters in New York City and implied (or did he say?) he wanted to come back. I was done with him from that day forward.

As for Iraola and Angelino, the fact is that things haven't improved since they arrived. They've gotten worse. Since they both seem to be in attack mode all the time, whatever defense we have is left to the centerbacks and Mix|Jacobson, because apparently no one expects Pirlo to play defense.

Facey, if he (or any other CFG loan, for that matter) plays well, he will not remain in New York. He'll be in Manchester. If he doesn't play well, why would we want him?

Nemec? Isn't it universally accepted he's a no-show?

I'll repeat that I do hold Jason culpable for some failure to motivate his squad but I'm not going to give his players a pass and say it's completely his fault.

As for comparisons to Galaxy, Steven Gerrard has had the common sense to keep his mouth shut other than to compliment the league and to keep putting on the shirt until he can contribute. He hasn't made any excuses; he just keeps grinding along. Also, Galaxy kicks ass at home; their road record leaves a lot to be desired. They are a lock by no means.

Again, my apologies to NYCFCFan10.
However, I do appreciate you speaking up.

 

[DavidVilla]

Guys who I don't question:

Facey
Villa
Mix

Guys who I do question:

Iraola
Angelino
Lampard
Nemec
Pirlo
Alvarez

Angelino? tf?

And Pirlo? He hasn't been playing as well as we thought he would but if you noticed, some of Pirlo's passes are completely game-changing. He creates space for the other players so beautifully and some of his passes are works of art. Not to mention he NEVER loses the ball.

But the rest on the people on that list, I agree with.

 

[cardinal511]

I think some people are mistaking talent for effort. Everything I saw early in the year indicated Nemec was playing hard and trying his best; he just wasn't very good. Same for Alvarez. Heck, same for guys like Kwame, Wingert, and Grabavoy (the latter two were good once, but have gotten old). To say that players don't care or aren't trying is a serious accusation against their professionalism. It's also something I'm not convinced I saw a lot of Saturday.

I did, however, see tactical problems that have persisted. Ethan Finlay torched us down the right for much of the game, and we're honestly lucky Columbus didn't score more. Is that because Angelino wasn't trying or didn't care? No. It's because our fullbacks push way up field and Finlay is fast enough to beat them back on counters. Leaving our two center backs and Pirlo (or Jacobson early) on an island has happened far too often all year and we've done nothing to correct it.
As soon as Mullins came off and Villa went back to the lone striker, we began using our stupid "play direct through a 5'9' target man with no possession or buildup" strategy that hasn't worked. We have little team speed and virtually no height as a team, playing fast or direct just isn't something we're going to do well. When we build slowly we look threatening. When we don't, we look like the worst team in the league.

Now I don't know if these tactical blunders (not talking about lineups here, those are all on the coaching staff) are on Kreis and the coaching staff, the players on the field, or a mixture of both, but I will say I think they're far more responsible for where we are than players not giving it their all.

 

[AndreT_NY]

I just want to say the guy who started this thread (NYCCFan) does not represent even a fraction of the fan community. Most of us support our players regardless of their national or ethnic origin and we dont throw players under the bus when leadership, coaching, management, and the front office have really let us down. Scapegoating mix or poku or the DP's is Kreis's thing.

This guy gets it.

 

[AndreT_NY]

I would like to address this thread with something that may be highly unpopular. Whilst I love Villa when we are down and with no chance of coming back he seems to become highly petulant and looks frequently to have given up. Lampard? He was one of the best players against Columbus this weekend.