Are We Building A Team Or Selling A Brand?

[Midas Mulligan]

It seems to me that some of the moves have pointed toward bringing glory and recognition to CFG, ie, the UAE due to Euro name recognition.

The rest of MLS has turned their focus on building a good on-field product, not signing big names for the headlines. I fear we're making the mistakes of old.

Here's a post and reply from another website that is indicative of the commentary from dedicated soccer fans in the US. I'm very concerned because I perceive the club's actions the same way these guys seem to. If anyone wonders where it's from, it's from the JJJ thread on bigsoccer.com.

I really fear we're going to suck horribly until the cap is taken off in 20 years. Sadly, the club may not exist then. Without the support of diehard soccer fans right here in the city, no deal for a stadium and no real fanbase will be built. The best way to do that isn't to sign old name guys. It's to build a team that competes every match with hungry players looking to make their own names and carve out their own paths.

Poster1:
My problem isn't Lampard to NYCFC, my problem is Lampard for 8M/Y while it appears a younger and better Jones can't sniff half that, nevermind he's a USNT stud to many.
Yeah, and NYCFC's "2007" approach to the building of their team is frustrating many fans of the league, which is a great sign. The large majority of fans aren't impressed by names anymore, they want on-field production, quality of play, results, value, and if possible, American players.​

Poster2:
Those are signs of a more educated fanbase.

Unfortunately, NYCFC didn't get the memo and they've invested way too much money into this venture for MLS to try to tell them how to spend it. They'll have free reign, as they should...I just wish they understood the current market better.

Then again, maybe New Yorkers really do want a team of fading stars, but I know die-hard fans in KC, Houston, Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Salt Lake etc. etc. don't want that. They want to win multiple CCL titles with mostly young, exciting talent.​

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Its funny, I was going to make a thread with an opposing view to this.

I‘m excited to see what JK does with the no-names. Thats where he makes his bread...

 

[Paul]

I understand those concerns, but let's wait until the roster is at least half full before we pass judgment on whether or not NYCFC has/is going in the wrong direction with their approach. Yes, right now NYCFC appears to be in the "build a brand"/fanbase mode with the Villa and Lampard signings, but I think that's understandable considering we are in the largest US market. As Pernetti said yesterday (paraphrasing): if you aren't constantly present you are not relevant in NY.

So, with many months before the club is even playing matches, NYCFC has to get the headlines now to generate buzz (plus Villa and Lampard have been regular contributors to their respective clubs over the past months so it isn't like they were benchwarmers back in Europe). Also, keep in mind that NYCFC traded for Brosvky who is 25 and a solid MLS player. I'm sure there will be much more of that type of acquisition to come.

Plus, I keep reading that NYCFC will fail if the stadium isn't full for every game. Well, that starts with a solid number of season ticket holders and these marquee signings of Villa and Lampard seem to be doing the trick in that regard.

 

[horky]

For crying out loud NYC have signed quality players who are not European has beens please allow the momentum to build!accept the fact that the cfg know about brand development & team building,some city kids will come to develop their skills before returning to the uk,this can only be a positive point after all its a long time until March when nycfc finally take to the pitch!

 

[413Blue]

While my major worry about this club is that it will end up being nothing but a brand extension/investment for CFG/NYY, i'm not too worried about how they are building the team right now.
While Villa and Lampard are past their prime, I still think they will be elite players in MLS. With the way the cap and drafting procedures work in MLS, we needed to make the most of our DP slots with players who are top of the heap and build around them. Building a quality side in MLS can take several years and will only succeed if you happen to draft well and otherwise develop young players into elite MLS players. If several years from now we are still signing older Euro players for big money I would be more concerned, however for now it is a good strategy. Not only can these players instantly make the team fairly competitive, they can sell the team better than most others, which is important at the beginning especially when winning is likely a couple of years out at best.
I don't believe that this big signing strategy is the long-term focus, otherwise they would have gone out and hired one of the re-tread coaches who bounce around Europe. Instead, they sought out a guy who has built quality MLS sides out of the existing structure of salary restraints. The signing of these big players are simply a bridge to get us there, or at least I hope!

 

[MrE]

I am going to try to answer your question as honestly as I can.

You may not like parts of the answer. You may disagree with parts of the answer, that is your prerogative. Whether this is the case or not, though I may answer bluntly in places, I am in no way having a go at New York or American fans in general. It is also the first time I have tried to split up a "post" to answer seperate questions and I appologise if I make a pigs ear of trying to do so

It seems to me that some of the moves have pointed toward bringing glory and recognition to CFG, ie, the UAE due to Euro name recognition.

I believe we have the best sports team owners in the world.
I believe they are building a brand. They have identified the best potential on the market in MCFC, chosen to build and enhance that product (thank you) and then develop it (Via CFG) in other markets.
That is not to say that they want a mini MCFC everywhere else. Simply they have bought a club that was two thirds the way there first, enhanced its potential, then wish to replicate the result elsewhere.
Quite sensibly CFG is the vehicle being used to do this. If CFG has success in the best league in the world with MCFC then why not apply the formula elsewhere.

The rest of MLS has turned their focus on building a good on-field product, not signing big names for the headlines. I fear we're making the mistakes of old.

I am sorry, you may not like this, but the MLS is probably no better than somewhere between levels 4 - 6 of English football. The number of Americans who have made it in top level European football is minuscule in comparison to any other major nation. The on field product that will result from your signings in the dressing room alone (even if they do not get onto the field) is significant.

Here's a post and reply from another website that is indicative of the commentary from dedicated soccer fans in the US. I'm very concerned because I perceive the club's actions the same way these guys seem to. If anyone wonders where it's from, it's from the JJJ thread on bigsoccer.com.

I really fear we're going to suck horribly until the cap is taken off in 20 years. Sadly, the club may not exist then. Without the support of diehard soccer fans right here in the city, no deal for a stadium and no real fanbase will be built. The best way to do that isn't to sign old name guys. It's to build a team that competes every match with hungry players looking to make their own names and carve out their own paths.

Poster1:
My problem isn't Lampard to NYCFC, my problem is Lampard for 8M/Y while it appears a younger and better Jones can't sniff half that, nevermind he's a USNT stud to many.
Yeah, and NYCFC's "2007" approach to the building of their team is frustrating many fans of the league, which is a great sign. The large majority of fans aren't impressed by names anymore, they want on-field production, quality of play, results, value, and if possible, American players.​

​

Younger yes, better really ?
USNT is not even on the map of word football (mind nor is Englands at the moment).
Lampard has lasted two decades in the hardest league in the world. Jones has gained a few caps for a team in what is essentially a non soccer playing nation, So have some teachers, bankers, and deliverymen from Luxembourg or Gibraltar.

The likes of Lampard and Villa will enhance those American players that they play with.

Poster2:
Those are signs of a more educated fanbase.

Unfortunately, NYCFC didn't get the memo and they've invested way too much money into this venture for MLS to try to tell them how to spend it. They'll have free reign, as they should...I just wish they understood the current market better.

Then again, maybe New Yorkers really do want a team of fading stars, but I know die-hard fans in KC, Houston, Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Salt Lake etc. etc. don't want that. They want to win multiple CCL titles with mostly young, exciting talent.​

​

Jealousy.
What else can they say.
You have a few experienced stars in a squad of how many ?

Experience goes a long way.

If understanding the current market is not having the money to invest, then thats the market they play in.
You guys will have more than adequate to play in that market and develop a real winning team.

Take warning it might be 5 years before you win anything, but win you will eventually.

If you leave the team before they win anything, because they did not win as quickly as you wanted/ expected then you dont deserve to support them in the first place.

True supporters carry on supporting after relegation, and take winning trophies as a bonus.

 

[413Blue]

I am sorry, you may not like this, but the MLS is probably no better than somewhere between levels 4 - 6 of English football. The number of Americans who have made it in top level European football is minuscule in comparison to any other major nation. The on field product that will result from your signings in the dressing room alone (even if they do not get onto the field) is significant.

​

While I agree that MLS is nowhere near the EPL overall, but levels 4-6 of English Football? you gotta be trolling with a statement like that. I think the freakin Cosmos would be elite in the English fourth division.

 

[Dark Phoneix]

Building a team and building a brand are not mutually exclusive, right now they are in the "Get our name out there phase" once the season is over the building the team phase really begins. We don't know what the long term plan is yet, so it's a little early to be hitting the panic button.

 

[BxLio91]

We'd have cosmos like attendance if we had a squad full of no names. New York cares about names. Jones is nowhere near the name Lampard is. If the name doesn't get out there, no one will care if we win or not. How many casuals know RB won the supporters shield. Lampard and Villa get our name out there. I'd bet money that when you say USA or MLS, we're now the first club people know/mention. With only 4 players and without playing a single game. Our 3rd DP might also be a name, we have a lot of of roster spots to fill. I get it you don't like Lampard, but acting like it's the end of the world without seeing the completed squad and playing a single game is just silly. I have faith Kreis along with the CFG scouting network will use the resources at their disposition to complement Villa and Lampard with solid local and international players.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I am going to try to answer your question as honestly as I can.

You may not like parts of the answer. You may disagree with parts of the answer, that is your prerogative. Whether this is the case or not, though I may answer bluntly in places, I am in no way having a go at New York or American fans in general. It is also the first time I have tried to split up a "post" to answer seperate questions and I appologise if I make a pigs ear of trying to do so



I believe we have the best sports team owners in the world.
I believe they are building a brand. They have identified the best potential on the market in MCFC, chosen to build and enhance that product (thank you) and then develop it (Via CFG) in other markets.
That is not to say that they want a mini MCFC everywhere else. Simply they have bought a club that was two thirds the way there first, enhanced its potential, then wish to replicate the result elsewhere.
Quite sensibly CFG is the vehicle being used to do this. If CFG has success in the best league in the world with MCFC then why not apply the formula elsewhere.



I am sorry, you may not like this, but the MLS is probably no better than somewhere between levels 4 - 6 of English football. The number of Americans who have made it in top level European football is minuscule in comparison to any other major nation. The on field product that will result from your signings in the dressing room alone (even if they do not get onto the field) is significant.

​

Younger yes, better really ?
USNT is not even on the map of word football (mind nor is Englands at the moment).
Lampard has lasted two decades in the hardest league in the world. Jones has gained a few caps for a team in what is essentially a non soccer playing nation, So have some teachers, bankers, and deliverymen from Luxembourg or Gibraltar.

​

Jealousy.
What else can they say.
You have a few experienced stars in a squad of how many ?

Experience goes a long way.

If understanding the current market is not having the money to invest, then thats the market they play in.
You guys will have more than adequate to play in that market and develop a real winning team.

Take warning it might be 5 years before you win anything, but win you will eventually.

If you leave the team before they win anything, because they did not win as quickly as you wanted/ expected then you dont deserve to support them in the first place.

True supporters carry on supporting after relegation, and take winning trophies as a bonus.

E, I like hearing what you have to say, but you have taken the piss, as I believe you guys say, if you think MLS is around the 4th to 6th division of English football.

I have no problem with you saying what you're saying, but you miss the point. MCFC is still just a product to promote for the glory of UAE.

I think you're objectively wrong in other places as well. But I don't see any reason in making a long post to discuss. It won't change your mind.

 

[zeven]

It seems to me that some of the moves have pointed toward bringing glory and recognition to CFG, ie, the UAE due to Euro name recognition.

The rest of MLS has turned their focus on building a good on-field product, not signing big names for the headlines. I fear we're making the mistakes of old.

Here's a post and reply from another website that is indicative of the commentary from dedicated soccer fans in the US. I'm very concerned because I perceive the club's actions the same way these guys seem to. If anyone wonders where it's from, it's from the JJJ thread on bigsoccer.com.

I really fear we're going to suck horribly until the cap is taken off in 20 years. Sadly, the club may not exist then. Without the support of diehard soccer fans right here in the city, no deal for a stadium and no real fanbase will be built. The best way to do that isn't to sign old name guys. It's to build a team that competes every match with hungry players looking to make their own names and carve out their own paths.

Poster1:
My problem isn't Lampard to NYCFC, my problem is Lampard for 8M/Y while it appears a younger and better Jones can't sniff half that, nevermind he's a USNT stud to many.
Yeah, and NYCFC's "2007" approach to the building of their team is frustrating many fans of the league, which is a great sign. The large majority of fans aren't impressed by names anymore, they want on-field production, quality of play, results, value, and if possible, American players.​

Poster2:
Those are signs of a more educated fanbase.

Unfortunately, NYCFC didn't get the memo and they've invested way too much money into this venture for MLS to try to tell them how to spend it. They'll have free reign, as they should...I just wish they understood the current market better.

Then again, maybe New Yorkers really do want a team of fading stars, but I know die-hard fans in KC, Houston, Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Salt Lake etc. etc. don't want that. They want to win multiple CCL titles with mostly young, exciting talent.​

This is the dumbest fucking thread i ever read on internet. its so stupid i advice you to seek medical advice of some kind.
Building a brand in sports can only be done with success on field, so your title contradict itself and make it rather pathetic.

 

[Gene]

I understand those concerns, but let's wait until the roster is at least half full before we pass judgment on whether or not NYCFC has/is going in the wrong direction with their approach. Yes, right now NYCFC appears to be in the "build a brand"/fanbase mode with the Villa and Lampard signings, but I think that's understandable considering we are in the largest US market. As Pernetti said yesterday (paraphrasing): if you aren't constantly present you are not relevant in NY.

So, with many months before the club is even playing matches, NYCFC has to get the headlines now to generate buzz (plus Villa and Lampard have been regular contributors to their respective clubs over the past months so it isn't like they were benchwarmers back in Europe). Also, keep in mind that NYCFC traded for Brosvky who is 25 and a solid MLS player. I'm sure there will be much more of that type of acquisition to come.

Plus, I keep reading that NYCFC will fail if the stadium isn't full for every game. Well, that starts with a solid number of season ticket holders and these marquee signings of Villa and Lampard seem to be doing the trick in that regard.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

We'd have cosmos like attendance if we had a squad full of no names. New York cares about names. Jones is nowhere near the name Lampard is. If the name doesn't get out there, no one will care if we win or not. How many casuals know RB won the supporters shield. Lampard and Villa get our name out there. I'd bet money that when you say USA or MLS, we're now the first club people know/mention. With only 4 players and without playing a single game. Our 3rd DP might also be a name, we have a lot of of roster spots to fill. I get it you don't like Lampard, but acting like it's the end of the world without seeing the completed squad and playing a single game is just silly. I have faith Kreis along with the CFG scouting network will use the resources at their disposition to complement Villa and Lampard with solid local and international players.

I didn't say it was happening for sure. I said I have concerns. It's simply a point for discussion. I appreciate you offering a measured, thoughtful reply. It does help a bit, even if I disagree with the approach in some ways.

Just more generally, I'm not some Chicken Little. Hell, I have analyzed companies for my entire professional life. It's my job. I take objectivity quite seriously, and when I take off my fan glasses, I worry a bit. I voice these opinions here because this is a forum intended for us, the fans of NYCFC. I don't spew venom across twitter or Facebook or whatever. And I don't mean for it to be venom here. But I'm a fan who is a supporter of the club. I am not a fan boy. That's why I won't always be positive. And I won't lose my shit at other folks who have a questions, or those whose opinions differ from mine. It's healthy, not only as a fan, but as an adult functioning in the real world.

I feel like teams have gone down the road of trying to have mass appeal before and failed. It seems like most clubs with real traction have done it by appealing to a core demographic of true die-hards who want the experience of having a club in their city rather than simply being able to go see a player they've seen in a big 4 league. Maybe we can and will have both. As I said, I'm just voicing a concern. I'm not stating a conclusion.

I generally try to avoid blanket predictions or criticisms without substantial evidence in my corner. For example, when and if you posts like the one below from me, please know it is with tongue firmly in cheek.

This is the dumbest fucking thread i ever read on internet. its so stupid i advice you to seek medical advice of some kind.
Building a brand in sports can only be done with success on field, so your title contradict itself and make it rather pathetic.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Its funny, I was going to make a thread with an opposing view to this.

I‘m excited to see what JK does with the no-names. Thats where he makes his bread...

I agree that Kreis has a great track record in that regard. He will hopefully get the pieces in place that allow the team to perform well.

 

[MagnusPax]

While I have similar fears as Midas, I also think this team is still very under-developed to pass any kind of judgement. The pieces so far are okay, but we are less than 1/7 the way there. To be honest, I am not going freak out or get too excited until the Expansion Draft. Thats where we will know if Reyna and Kreis are doing a good job. Right now all we can do is complain about freakin' David Villa and Frank Lampard. First World Problems. Ha-ha.

 

[MrE]

E, I like hearing what you have to say, but you have taken the piss, as I believe you guys say, if you think MLS is around the 4th to 6th division of English football.

I have no problem with you saying what you're saying, but you miss the point. MCFC is still just a product to promote for the glory of UAE.

I think you're objectively wrong in other places as well. But I don't see any reason in making a long post to discuss. It won't change your mind.

Sorry, we will have to differ on the first point... I maybe wrong, and you maybe wrong. Right now there is no way of proving it back. But for years and years many players like Lampard have dropped down the leagues before retiring when they can no longer survive at the top level.

Point 2. I wholeheartedly agree with you on. MCFC were bought to promote UAE, I am sure. No matter how rich, you do not spend that type of money without wanting an end result. I wait to see what happens with interest... This sure beats what has happened for the last 40 years.

Willing to objectively discuss your points anytime.

 

[MrE]

Whilst driving my daughter to the stables this morning, I have considered my statement about level 4 - level 6.

I am not taking the piss, I just cannot get beyond this for the following reasons.
1) I think it is taken as read that the MLS is not as strong as the premiership (level 1)
2) Due to the number of big clubs that are in the Championship, all trying to get back to the premiership, this is recognised as the hardest league in the world. The most valuable game in football (possibly sport) is the Championship play off final where teams compete for the promised land of the Prem.
Many of these teams are able to compete in the prem.
3) Level 3 is still a decent standard, and the odd big team (City included not long ago) do drop into that division. The league is full of developing Prem players (loans) ex prem players coming down and journeymen. This would be the start of (my percieved) MLS Standard. Though I think the lower MLS clubs would struggle in this league.

Hence my level 4 to level 6 comment.

3) Soccer is still a developing sport in the US. It still has to win the hearts and minds of many (that said by attendance it is now your third most popular and fastest growing (Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

4) your loans (other club trainees) are where players like Emyr Hughes develop... he was at level 4 Northampton the other year, and has worked his way up to level 2 championship loan. It will be interesting to see whether you get first time academy loans or proven academy loans like Emyr.
5) As your high profile imported players get younger take that as an indication your league is getting stronger.

Everything indicates that the MLS is getting stronger all the time, It wont be long before level 4 - 6 becomes level 3 -5, and then 2 - 4.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-choose-MLS-mid-ranking-European-careers.html

 

[Falastur]

MrE, as someone who has been to see Conference (level 5) games and regularly goes to see my local team at Southern Premier League (level 7) level, I can't tell you you're wrong about MLS being level 4-6 strongly enough. At level 6-7 the teams struggle to even string three passes together before kicking the ball out for a throw-in while under no pressure whatsoever, and the primary way goals are scored is by someone punting the ball upfield and the defence just being five metres behind the striker. This is not what MLS is like. The A-League is a dramatic step up from level 4-6 standard, and it is a step behind MLS is quality. MLS is high level 2 to mid level 3 standard.

 

[Davo15]

Flastur I think your talking sense on an Island of insanity that is most of this thread. We've got people m.aking pretty crazy statements IMO from both ends of the spectrum.

We've got Some Brits or Eurosnobs vastly underestimating the MLS and the US National team. The USA are far from world class (but so few teams actually fit that description) but are a very solid team that lies down for no one is rarely humiliated and can give most teams a match on their day. We've got at least one person on her talking about the USA as if it were still 1990.

On the other hand I think their are Americans with chips on their shoulder who are making insane comments about NYCFC obtaining two top class players. Players who might be a little older but who are coming off of solid seasons at very big clubs in very big leagues and both of whom played for big (if unsuccessful ) nations at the just completed world cup. The team is barely filled in and that anyone can complain about these two being components of it is ridiculous. We're still to fill in via the expansion draft plus we should have at least a couple exciting young prospects from the MCFC academy. Anyone comparing that to Chivas is vastly underestimating the MCFC Academy or over estimating Chivas. You just have to look at John Guidetti tearing up the Dutch league a few years back to see there is ton of potential for us to get an impact player though that route. I expect the loanees to contriubute.

There also seem to be a group of people bitching about Lampard across multiple threads. You come off like your actively rooting for him to fail so you can brag about how right you were if he does.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

The DP spots are almost filled in and that anyone can suffer us leaving a gaping hole in what is likely to be the most important role on our team is insane. We'll not have any opportunities for a real class DM in the expansion draft, and the young prospects from the MCFC academy aren't suited for that role.
There also seem to be a group of people bringing sycophantic Lampard messages across multiple threads. You come off like you care more about him than the success of the club so you can brag about how right you were about him not being too old.

See? I can do it too. You just add "insane" or "ridiculous" every other sentence and then over-generalize people's opinions into a wildly dissonant position and surely everyone sees how right you are.

Not picking a fight with you mind, just making a point. This isn't about Lampard per se. I intended it to be a larger discussion regarding how the club is piecing the team together. Since I'll be in the stands supporting the club for every match, I want us to have the best squad possible regardless of a player's fame or background. This signing is troublesome to me because it is in some ways reminiscent of other club's poor signings.

I'm not making a final judgement on the matter. I am hopeful that there are some surprises to come via additional cap room. I would have just preferred to see us get a more foundational piece in position and age who could really lead the club for some time and be a true talisman. Lampard will always be a Chelsea player. I would love to see us get one guy who has enough time left that he will be NYCFC in the minds of fans. We're down to our last strike now, barring significant rule changes.