Nycfc Coaching Rumors

[S1ARK5]

In all this Kreis discussion I'd like to point out that the Mets are going to the World Series. I mention this because for all of last year and the year before the Mets were terrible, and even for some of this year people were calling for manager Terry Collins' head. Last year the Mets were indeed bad, finishing in third place, 17 games behind. And yet they kept Collins, even though fans were howling about it. Except that now, somehow, the Mets have won. They did this in several ways. One was to invest five years in building the what is now perhaps the best pitching staff in baseball. Another was to make a few key acquisitions in key areas to turn the club into an offense powerhouse (Cuddyer, Uribe, and Cespedes). And lastly they had some good homegrown talent that's really come through.

So actually, the Mets were never really a bad team, and Collins was never a terrible manager. What happened was careful development mixed with a good deal of patience, and now they're possibly a great team.

So for everyone calling for Kreis' head, remember that this is only our first year, we have some good players but definitely need some more, and we actually came decently close to making the playoffs with a first-year team that for half a season was to some degree other teams' castoffs. If we can somehow get two rock solid defenders for next season we can actually be a really good team as we already have some midfield and offensive talent.

This team wasn't stupendously good this year, but with some key additions for next year we could be. And last year Terry Collins was the worst manager ever, and now his team is going to the World Series. All I'm asking is that you consider that for a moment before you post something calling for Kreis to be carried off and tossed into the Harlem River.

You make some great points and I agree with you that really in the end the fans need more patience with Kreis and more importantly CFG does because they are the decision makers. The only way I can see CFG getting rid of Kreis is if they have philosophical differences, which could very well be the key, but shouldn't be so soon into the relationship.

I would also like to point out that baseball is different. Out of all of the sports the manager is the least important. Their main job is a shrink sorta way to keep the locker room in good spirits and to not make any boneheaded decisions with the bullpen. Look at Matt Williams, manager of the year in the NL last year, he was fired this year. Same with Terry Collins, same with Joe Torre back in 96. When Steinbrenner hired him, Clueless Joe was the headline because he was a mediocre manager before coming to the Yankees and it just so happens he came at the right time with the like of Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Pettite, and oh by the way the greatest closer ever in Rivera, and voila the Yankees have a dynasty. Bottom line is this, it is ALL about the players.

This year with the Mets, the young pitching, the acquisition of Cespedes was HUGE. Again ALL ABOUT THE PLAYERS.

Do you think Bellicheat is such a great coach, because he is the smartest coach? GTFO. To be fair he is a great coach, but how great would he be without Tom Brady? How great would Walsh be without Montana and Rice and those defenses, or perfect example, as a long time Giants fan, nothing is more frustrating then having Tom Coughlin coach your team because he is the epitome of inconsistent.

In all of his career with the Giants he has been extremely inconsistent, sans 2008 when the Giants were rolling and Plax shot himself. So the same coach with the same players all of a sudden TWICE go on a roll at the right time to win two superbowls. Why? Because the players stepped up. TC was not doing anything different in terms of schemes or anything like that. The players stepped up big time.

So overall firing a coach, if it does happen, after 1 year on the job of an expansion team in this kooky league (MLS) with all of the turnover with players, and having players shoved down his throat and then telling him to make it work, is stupid. However, if it comes down to just having different mindsets on how this team should be run to be successful in MLS then they MUST part ways but guess what, I would think Kreis has a better idea on how to succeed in MLS much more then CFG. Again I will say this, we the fans are the big losers.

The way it seems to me its that CFG is experimenting with us and thats a big blow. I don't want Patrick Viera, fuck him. It's either Kreis or a Petke or another Miguel Herrera. Still the best thing to do is to give Kreis and his staff a full offseason, training camp, preseason and get better players in the backline and a better GK and see how 2016 turns out. If next year he has another year like this, then fine move on but this is too soon.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Here's a quote from Klinsmann saying the precise opposite of what you've just said: http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20150906-story.html

In his words, the problem with U.S. soccer: "There's too much emphasis on telling people what to do"

If you're going to make gross generalizations about how different nationalities interact, at least get your facts straight. I don't deal in cliches, so come back to me when you've found some evidence to back up your ideas. I'll be waiting with plenty of evidence of my own for why barring coaches of certain nationalities is ignorant at best, harmful at worst.

Believe what you want to believe dude. And please be honest about what I wrote. I never advocated "barring coaches of certain nationalities" as you claim. I only raised a legitimate concern that's been generally voiced in a lot of quarters, including by others in this thread (though not so directly). A foreign coach with zero experience in MLS or with American players is taking a risk. Period.

 

[doctorhoosier]

Here's a quote from Klinsmann saying the precise opposite of what you've just said: http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20150906-story.html

In his words, the problem with U.S. soccer: "There's too much emphasis on telling people what to do"

If you're going to make gross generalizations about how different nationalities interact, at least get your facts straight. I don't deal in cliches, so come back to me when you've found some evidence to back up your ideas. I'll be waiting with plenty of evidence of my own for why barring coaches of certain nationalities is ignorant at best, harmful at worst.

Barring nationalities is stupid and ignorant.

However, asking that someone should have *some* degree of knowledge of how to build within MLS and its intentionally absurd rules -- that's a requirement. Unless you bring in Lagerway this offseason, there's no one in our office who understands building a team in MLS. Kreis is the only one with that experience.

Foreign managers with no MLS experience tend to struggle in this league. It's a very difficult league to adjust to.

 

[Christopher Jee]

In all this Kreis discussion I'd like to point out that the Mets are going to the World Series. I mention this because for all of last year and the year before the Mets were terrible, and even for some of this year people were calling for manager Terry Collins' head. Last year the Mets were indeed bad, finishing in third place, 17 games behind. And yet they kept Collins, even though fans were howling about it. Except that now, somehow, the Mets have won. They did this in several ways. One was to invest five years in building the what is now perhaps the best pitching staff in baseball. Another was to make a few key acquisitions in key areas to turn the club into an offense powerhouse (Cuddyer, Uribe, and Cespedes). And lastly they had some good homegrown talent that's really come through.

So actually, the Mets were never really a bad team, and Collins was never a terrible manager. What happened was careful development mixed with a good deal of patience, and now they're possibly a great team.

So for everyone calling for Kreis' head, remember that this is only our first year, we have some good players but definitely need some more, and we actually came decently close to making the playoffs with a first-year team that for half a season was to some degree other teams' castoffs. If we can somehow get two rock solid defenders for next season we can actually be a really good team as we already have some midfield and offensive talent.

This team wasn't stupendously good this year, but with some key additions for next year we could be. And last year Terry Collins was the worst manager ever, and now his team is going to the World Series. All I'm asking is that you consider that for a moment before you post something calling for Kreis to be carried off and tossed into the Harlem River.

This is somewhat of a macro comparison though. From my vantage point the #KreisIn posters are mostly concerned about the macro or situational aspects (expansion teams have never made playoffs etc.) and the #KreisOut focus on the methodology we've observed (playing people out of position, poor lineups etc.). I don't know anything about baseball, but was there a similar dynamic in the discussion regarding Collins?

Macro / micro is a bit of a false dichotomy here, but I don't have the energy to reframe. :/

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Actually doing some more thinking on Kreis and CFG, I believe Kreis had a WTF did I get myself into moment with the whole Lampard debacle. If you remember he was adamant that Lampard would be hear at the start of the MLS season and then you had Pellegrini saying no way he was stay with Man City, in other words who the hell is Kreis to say anything about Lampard.

I get the feeling that's when it all started. Then getting Pirlo shoved down his throat when he clearly did not want him and didn't think he was right for this team, and when Pirlo was solely to blame against MTL for the lackadaisical corner defending, Kreis made the quote about wanting guys that want to be here etc etc....its all making sense. I think the real losers are the fans to be honest.

Trust me, after sitting through the redbull BS for many many years, that is the last thing we want as a fan base, constant turnover in players and coaches. I am just so disappointed with all of this and how this has turned out, probably our worst fears, certainly mine, when I jumped all in with this team.

This is actually way more likely. My "seems probable" reply was because I'm lazy, and I didn't want to make an argument contrary. That's what I think may have happened as well, but I would take it a step further and say that he did let his disappointment/anger/whatever impact his performance as manager, even if subconsciously. Teams, in my non-professional experience, are like dogs and Jedi. They can sense pretty much any disturbance in the force. Following my line of thinking on this, Kreis being upset was either sensed by the players or he was seen as too weak after being run through by CFG brass.

So, if you want, you could blame CFG for Kreis losing the team. Heck, that sounds like a fun way to frame it all. I can hate on everyone then. But what I can't do is back a theory of separation that doesn't posit that Kreis lost this squad. Blame likely belongs on FO, CFG & Kreis himself. I think the only thing to really discuss is the allocation of that blame.

The key takeaway for me, is if we take your theory as true (and it does seem reasonable, as does my corollary) and you're Sorriano/The Board, even if you're fully responsible because you cut the sulky little guy off at the knees, you can't just fall on the grenade season after season in a footy hell Groundhog Day nightmare as penance for a shitty decision(s) that initiated the problem. You have to move forward and correct it as best you can.

You can't turn over the whole roster. But you can replace the guy who fell (was pushed, if that suits you better) into an almost inescapable hole and at least get someone in who can start at ground zero.

Several folks have complained we'll be basically re-booting after year 1 if this happens. I personally think a re-boot quicker and therefore preferable to a drawn out struggle for reconciliation.

 

[gbservis]

Regardless if it's Vieira or not I don't understand the "we need a coach that knows the MLS" argument. I know it's rooted in the history of non-MLS guys struggling but I don't think we are the typical MLS club. You need an MLS insider to coach in places like Columbus, Chicago, Colorado, etc. Those teams are built on the cheap around MLS vets, and young American players. Assuming our current team construction is an indication of how NYCFC will look going forward we are never going to be one of those teams. What MLS guy has experience coaching three stars the level of Villa/Lampard/Pirlo? What MLS guy knows how to coach top flight prospects like Angelino?

Yes, we need a GM that knows all the crazy MLS rules to help with team construction. But to me we need a coach that knows how to connect with and get the best out of a team where the top 5-8 players are going to be guys with experience rooted in top flight european systems. In some combination outside of Poku and Shelton, the majority of the talent on our team is european: Villa/Pirlo/Lampard/Mix/Iraola/Angelino/Facey. Why do we need an MLS insider where the primary talent you need to succeed is connecting with and developing players like Brovsky and Grabavoy?

 

[SayWhat44]

https://twitter.com/x/status/657194072633831425

Could you imagine us getting Miguel Herrara? I would fucking love it lol. But it wont happen...

 

[The Toe]

Herrera is the anti-Kreis. I like his antics.

 

[joe]

Holy hell, four new pages in this thread from about 4 pm yesterday to this morning. And that was after the denial came out.

 

[joe]

Still the best thing to do is to give Kreis and his staff a full offseason, training camp, preseason and get better players in the backline and a better GK and see how 2016 turns out. If next year he has another year like this, then fine move on but this is too soon.

Also, this gets a bump for sanity.

 

[sbrylski]

Hiring Vieira would send an uncomfortable message about our relationship with CFG, but I'm still in favor of it because the alternative, tension and disagreement between the coach and management, is worse.

What we had this year was a pretty massive failure in a number of respects. We could go two different ways - more independence or more control by Manchester. The former will not be allowed to happen and seems like a recipe for uncertainty in success. I'm okay with the latter.

Right now, we are like MCFC's child, and we are an infant. And we already want to move out of the house. Let's give it a few years to grow up before we seek more independence.

 

[ManhattanValley]

Believe what you want to believe dude. And please be honest about what I wrote. I never advocated "barring coaches of certain nationalities" as you claim. I only raised a legitimate concern that's been generally voiced in a lot of quarters, including by others in this thread (though not so directly). A foreign coach with zero experience in MLS or with American players is taking a risk. Period.

You seemed less concerned with experience and more concerned with mentality, and how us pesky Europeans interact with American players in your original post:

That doesn't mean an MLS coach has to be American, but it can't be a European - my way or the Eurorail - kind of guy.

Clearly it goes without saying that some kind of MLS experience is desirable. It's a unique league with a unique set of challenges. But to suggest on Day 1, before you've even interviewed any candidates, that a European coach probably wouldn't be right for the job (Sorry Pep! Bad luck Arsene!) because of some kind of inherent "Eurorail" mentality - that you're struggling to even define - is just a lazy anti-Eurosnob cliché.

 

[S1ARK5]

This is actually way more likely. My "seems probable" reply was because I'm lazy, and I didn't want to make an argument contrary. That's what I think may have happened as well, but I would take it a step further and say that he did let his disappointment/anger/whatever impact his performance as manager, even if subconsciously. Teams, in my non-professional experience, are like dogs and Jedi. They can sense pretty much any disturbance in the force. Following my line of thinking on this, Kreis being upset was either sensed by the players or he was seen as too weak after being run through by CFG brass.

So, if you want, you could blame CFG for Kreis losing the team. Heck, that sounds like a fun way to frame it all. I can hate on everyone then. But what I can't do is back a theory of separation that doesn't posit that Kreis lost this squad. Blame likely belongs on FO, CFG & Kreis himself. I think the only thing to really discuss is the allocation of that blame.

The key takeaway for me, is if we take your theory as true (and it does seem reasonable, as does my corollary) and you're Sorriano/The Board, even if you're fully responsible because you cut the sulky little guy off at the knees, you can't just fall on the grenade season after season in a footy hell Groundhog Day nightmare as penance for a shitty decision(s) that initiated the problem. You have to move forward and correct it as best you can.

You can't turn over the whole roster. But you can replace the guy who fell (was pushed, if that suits you better) into an almost inescapable hole and at least get someone in who can start at ground zero.

Several folks have complained we'll be basically re-booting after year 1 if this happens. I personally think a re-boot quicker and therefore preferable to a drawn out struggle for reconciliation.

As with any organization, and especially in sports, when the product on the field is bad, there is blame to go around for all. It starts at the top and trickles its way down. No doubt Kreis is to blame a lot for this bad season. I still wouldn't give up on the guy just yet and I hope CFG feels the same. We will se what comes of it.

 

[Gotham Gator]

It can't be a European - my way or the Eurorail - kind of guy.

i.e. it can't be a kind of European who is going to dictate to the American players in a way they find off putting and therefore start tuning out the coach. That is, that in hiring someone from Europe, you need to be sensitive to the cultural differences between the states and the continent. If you find a guy who can bridge that - and I am sure there are many - then great. But it is not a factor to ignore.

You seem to think that statement was saying any European coach would not be appropriate. If you read it clearly, it is not what I said.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Interesting update from NBC.

A source close to the situation has confirmed to ProSoccerTalk that reports regarding Kreis being fired by NYCFC have come as a total surprise to individuals at the organization but admitted that after a disappointing debut season in MLS, there is plenty to be discussed at the end of the season.

It is believed that Kreis will sit down with NYCFC’s leading officials, such as sporting director Claudio Reyna and chief executive Ferran Sorriano, in the coming weeks after the MLS season is over. The point of that meeting will be a post-season briefing to assess which things went well, which things didn’t, and to plan for the offseason and the 2016 season. Only then will it become clear if Kreis’ time at NYCFC is up.

For what it’s worth, the City Football Group (CFG), who own NYCFC, implement a similar end of season review at sister club Manchester City after every season which always leads to speculation regarding the hiring or a new manager of firing of the current man in charge. With Vieria currently in charge of Man City’s reserve team, the former Arsenal and French international midfielder has been touted to take plenty of head coaching jobs in the Premier League in the past and it is no secret that he has ambitions to become a head coach somewhere, soon. Linking Vieria with a position at City is not far fetched as CFG would seem to be promoting from within.​

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/10...-new-york-city-fc/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

[Falastur]

Interesting update from NBC.

A source close to the situation has confirmed to ProSoccerTalk that reports regarding Kreis being fired by NYCFC have come as a total surprise to individuals at the organization but admitted that after a disappointing debut season in MLS, there is plenty to be discussed at the end of the season.

It is believed that Kreis will sit down with NYCFC’s leading officials, such as sporting director Claudio Reyna and chief executive Ferran Sorriano, in the coming weeks after the MLS season is over. The point of that meeting will be a post-season briefing to assess which things went well, which things didn’t, and to plan for the offseason and the 2016 season. Only then will it become clear if Kreis’ time at NYCFC is up.

For what it’s worth, the City Football Group (CFG), who own NYCFC, implement a similar end of season review at sister club Manchester City after every season which always leads to speculation regarding the hiring or a new manager of firing of the current man in charge. With Vieria currently in charge of Man City’s reserve team, the former Arsenal and French international midfielder has been touted to take plenty of head coaching jobs in the Premier League in the past and it is no secret that he has ambitions to become a head coach somewhere, soon. Linking Vieria with a position at City is not far fetched as CFG would seem to be promoting from within.​

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/10...-new-york-city-fc/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

That sounds much more like what I would expect to happen.

 

[ManhattanValley]

It can't be a European - my way or the Eurorail - kind of guy.

i.e. it can't be a kind of European who is going to dictate to the American players in a way they find off putting and therefore start tuning out the coach. That is, that in hiring someone from Europe, you need to be sensitive to the cultural differences between the states and the continent. If you find a guy who can bridge that - and I am sure there are many - then great. But it is not a factor to ignore.

You seem to think that statement was saying any European coach would not be appropriate. If you read it clearly, it is not what I said.

Talking broadly about European managers as if they're one homogenous group of coaches is meaningless. Is there some magical unifying factor between Adrian Heath, Arsene Wenger and Paolo di Canio that I'm missing here?

You've not been able to explain why a foreign coach would be at an inherent disadvantage to an American one beyond some vague notion of "cultural differences". I'm guessing you don't work in HR.

Trust me - if we do hire a European coach (and I'd say there's a good chance we will), they're not going to start rolling around in stripey jumpers and blowing filter cigarette smoke into the bemused eyes of their American players. Look at their track record, not their passport.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Trust me - if we do hire a European coach (and I'd say there's a good chance we will), they're not going to start rolling around in stripey jumpers and blowing filter cigarette smoke into the bemused eyes of their American players. Look at their track record, not their passport.

Jesus fucking Christ you are one annoying asshole. Again, you are being completely insulting and ridiculous. I am not the one resorting to insulting stereotypes, you are.

I will spare everyone else any more of this nonsense. I am done with the topic.

EDIT: I will apologize for the profanity above and in my earlier post. I should rise above that, even in an Internet forum. It has no place. It's easy for me to get mad, however, when my words are twisted around and stripped of their real meaning, and I am made out to be some kind of jingoistic, America-first, moron, when in fact I've traveled all over Europe and lived overseas. It would make anyone mad.

So, sorry for the profane outburst. Please stop twisting my words around and insulting me.

 

[joe]

eports regarding Kreis being fired by NYCFC have come as a total surprise to individuals at the organization

Proof the FO doesn't read the forums, I guess.

 

[NYCFCP]

"A foreign coach with zero experience in MLS or with American players is taking a risk. Period."

Taking any coach from anywhere is taking a risk.......

But I'm not involving myself in the conversation you two are having ........