NYCFC Players Wanted Thread
- Thread starter NYCFC_Dan
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Do we think we could get decent money for Shelton?
If not (which I don't think we would be able to), why sell him? He's definitely not limiting our roster options at his salary and as an American.
I think the max salary will creep over $500k next year, IIRC.
You can only apply TAM to new contracts that are signed over the max. So we would not be able to apply TAM to $500k deals. If we spent $600k, we can buy them down with TAM to as low as $150k.
EDIT: Last rumor I heard was that TAM will go up to $2 million next year, from $1.2 million this year. That alone is enough for every team to sign ~2 starters from Liga MX this offseason. I think a 2017 Toronto would struggle to make the playoffs if dropped into MLS 2020. Depth around the league is going to explode.
That's what I read as well. $2 million for 2018 and 2019.
I was thinking some guys will want raises to stick around. Could spend $1 million of it just giving appropriate raises. Harrison will hit our cap anyway next year for the first time assumably
Haven't strawpolled about DP CBs lately. How would you feel about Neven Subotic?
http://www.espnfc.com/story/3153927/borussia-dortmunds-neven-subotic-would-be-tempted-by-us-return
Callens, Subotic, and Chanot would be the best 3-man back line in the league. Ferraresi, Brillant, and White would be amazing depth.
I'm not sold, just spurring discussion.
http://www.espnfc.com/story/3153927/borussia-dortmunds-neven-subotic-would-be-tempted-by-us-return
Callens, Subotic, and Chanot would be the best 3-man back line in the league. Ferraresi, Brillant, and White would be amazing depth.
I'm not sold, just spurring discussion.
The question could be, would we rather have him (thus solidifying our D but limiting ability to bring in new high caliber DP attacker) or have to play against him?
I think he could be a very interesting addition, but if he joins we'd have to throw TAM at another reliable scorer or two. Does our GD go up more with a better D or a better attack??? I don't know the answer.
There's been some chatter about DPs, comparing us unfavorably to Atlanta especially, and the amounts spent by both teams, including especially Atlanta's spending on transfer fees, unprecedented in MLS. So I ran the numbers, with some projections for Atlanta, and Atlanta is spending very, very smartly. They are spending way less than NYC has in the first 3 years.
In 3 years, NYC has spent
David Villa: $16.83 million ($5.61M x 3 years).
Lampard: $9 million ($6M x 1.5 years)
Pirlo: $14.79M ($5.915 x 2.5 years)
Maxi: $2 million one year
Totals: $42.62 million for 8 DP years.
Now Atlanta. I can't find even unofficial estimates of how long Almiron, Martinez, or Villalba are signed, or what their salaries will be in the future. Just to be simple I assumed 3 years each to match NYC to date, and to be safe I assume a 20% annual raise for each.
Almiron: $16.372M ($8M fee, $2.3M salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Martinez: $8.59M ($4.8M fee, $1.04M salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Villalba: $5.32M ($2.5M fee, $0.775 salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Totals: $30.28M for 9 DP years.
The point is, even paying more than $15M in fees, they are spending way less given the salaries, as long as they signed them to at least 3 year deals. Plus they got a full extra year of service from them.
NYCFC chose to sign DP's the way it did for various reasons, but spending less money wasn't one of them. Now that Atlanta has shown how well this can work, I would hope we emulate it as appropriate.
In 3 years, NYC has spent
David Villa: $16.83 million ($5.61M x 3 years).
Lampard: $9 million ($6M x 1.5 years)
Pirlo: $14.79M ($5.915 x 2.5 years)
Maxi: $2 million one year
Totals: $42.62 million for 8 DP years.
Now Atlanta. I can't find even unofficial estimates of how long Almiron, Martinez, or Villalba are signed, or what their salaries will be in the future. Just to be simple I assumed 3 years each to match NYC to date, and to be safe I assume a 20% annual raise for each.
Almiron: $16.372M ($8M fee, $2.3M salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Martinez: $8.59M ($4.8M fee, $1.04M salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Villalba: $5.32M ($2.5M fee, $0.775 salary year 1 with annual 20% raises)
Totals: $30.28M for 9 DP years.
The point is, even paying more than $15M in fees, they are spending way less given the salaries, as long as they signed them to at least 3 year deals. Plus they got a full extra year of service from them.
NYCFC chose to sign DP's the way it did for various reasons, but spending less money wasn't one of them. Now that Atlanta has shown how well this can work, I would hope we emulate it as appropriate.
Considering that DP salaries fall outside the cap (yes, except that bit) is there any specific reason why we should emulate the way someone else did it cheaper, aside from the bragging rights that come from boasting that your DPs are both better and cost less?
I think after yesterday's match, assuming we keep Herrera, it becomes clearer that we need a DP LW. That way PV would have no excuse to play TMac and sit our new DP, unless they sign a 38 y.o. has been who doesn't run anymore. If they sign a young, fast guy who can dribble through people and helps in defense, that would open up a lot of space for Villa to strike. Somebody like Accam.
I think our starting backline with Mata, Callens, Chanot, and Struna needs no immediate improvement to be among the very best in the league. It even has decent depth with Brillant, Sweat, White and RJ. Our midfield is also set if Herrera stays. But we could really use a much much better LW than Wallace. Also, Wallace is the kind of flexible, hard working guy that could provide depth at many positions (maybe he could be a passable box-to-box?)
Their DPs are better than ours have been, and they spend less money to do it. As a fan I take your point and I'm not particularly concerned about the second half of it, but I'm also not going to bother explaining why getting better quality for less money is a good thing no matter what.
Well, if a guy of Martinez's caliber costs that, then we could really take the league by storm if we sign somebody thinking actual production and not famous name. To be fair, young DP flops are not uncommon (Blanco, Colman, Veron, etc)
Sure, but the first part is implicit. My point is, I don't truly see why the second part should be considered relevant. Judge DPs on their performances, not their salary figures.
This is a great point that's overlooked because people take Atlanta for granted. While I agree with
mgarbowski that it's a better approach in general than Pirlo/Lampard ticket sale retirement tours I think Atlanta got a bit lucky that all 3 have worked out extremely well. The down side of going the youth route is an increased risk (still seems worth it). Any chance the CFG affiliation hurts us here, the scouting network should help but a guy like Almiron is possibly an MCFC target and CFG my get some blow back if they bought a player of that level and then sent him to NYCFC rather than MCFC. They made it very clear with how they handled Lampard where we fall in the picking order.
But my point was in response to those who were arguing that NYC would avoid paying fees because of the cost. But Atlanta has shown that you can pay some big fees by MLS standards and still come out ahead on cost compared to the way NYCFC went about it. I just think a lot of people didn't notice because they didn't add everything up.
The other point is that Atlanta's approach opens up an entirely separate class of potential acquisitions. When you refuse to pay fees but are willing to pay big salaries, you end up mostly with players whose current club doesn't want to resign them and had few offers to pay transfer fees before the contract ends. Which is why you end up with older players.
In the Atlanta model, you open up class of players who are worth meaningful fees, but are too young to demand salaries commensurate with their potential. You can make mistakes on either one, but it's generally better to have more options. Also, I expect Atlanta had a first mover advantage. Once more MLS clubs enter this space there will be more competition for the obvious targets and success will be more hit and miss. It's like Moneyball. When nobody but the A's wanted players in a certain profile, they had an advantage. Then everyone caught on. So I'm not expecting NYC can get it's next 3 DPs from that same mold as Atlanta and be as successful. But I want them looking both in this space, and the older/no fee space.
Valid point. He is prob second or third round draft trade bait. But no . We prob won't get much for him .
If Arena gets another head coaching job, he should take him. If he loves Zardes so much, why wouldn't he want his clone?
We are never going to emulate Atlanta. There is no way that a player like Almiron would sign be allowed to sign for NYCFC and not CFG. This is not necessarily a bad thing as we can circumvent the cap like we have with Herrera.
Our own path and roadmap can be very successful.
1) Fill DP slots with best players we can afford
2) Get young loanees like Herrera from CFG that would normally cost us a DP slot because of the transfer fee
3) Continue to fill non-DP slots with CFG scouted international players that are a tier below talent wise from the PL level talent Man City is looking for (Mata, Callens, Ring, etc.)
4) Continue to target Generation Adidas players in SuperDraft
5) Look to fill the back of the roster with cap-free Academy talent. Sell any studs the academy develops.
Interesting analysis. Not sure we couldn't sign DPs like Atlanta has for CFG reasons, though you might be right. I just wouldn't claim to know. But if it is true then the real difference in your list compared to Atlanta is items 1 and 2.
Working backwards, (5) is definitely part of Atlanta's plan, (4) may or may not be, but there's no obstacle to them doing it, or any MLS team for that matter, (3) good scouting for international players is something almost all MLS teams aspire to; NYCFC's advantage is in the CFG resources, which is a difference of degree not kind. We do seem to have done well with them on the whole after Year 1.
Which leaves 1 and 2, as opposed to Atlanta's ability to go after more types of DPs. 1 is something ATL can do, and they get to choose between young/old DPs, but for every DP it is either/or. Item 2 is more or less an opportunity unique to NYCFC. So far we've gotten Angelino, Facey and Herrera, of whom only the last was really special.We have minimal control on how long he stays, and get no Garber bucks if he is sold. On the other hand, we get these players in addition to 3 DPs.
Hard to measure how it all balances out.
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I'm having a hard time thinking that this is 100% nailed down. You think Almiron would consistently make the bench or better at MCFC? If MCFC wouldn't take him, then I don't see how from Almiron's perspective it would make more sense to sign with Atlanta than with NYCFC (not CFG), assuming NYCFC was in the market.
Perhaps I'm being thick, though.
I'm curious whether our strategy will change as TAM increases or salary cap otherwise increases. Perhaps it will change by degrees (for example, we'll be targeting, say, Portuguese-league players instead of Belgian-league. Or more Belgian-league players) vs. dimensionally (for example, less DPs for more TAM-level players).
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