NYCFC Players Wanted Thread

[dummyrun]

There was a reason he had a lot more hype than Medina coming in.

Because he was 19 when he signed, not 20? Because he's from Uruguay, not Paraguay? Entirely possible Rossi will turn out to be a better player than Medina but come on, preseason MLS fanbase hype is basically meaningless here.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Because he was 19 when he signed, not 20? Because he's from Uruguay, not Paraguay? Entirely possible Rossi will turn out to be a better player than Medina but come on, preseason MLS fanbase hype is basically meaningless here.

Well no.

Because Rossi's track record coming in was much more productive in a more competitive league. In the Uruguayan First Division he played just over 1,000 minutes scoring 4 goals and tabbing 7 assists whereas Medina had 1 goal and 2 assists in 700 minutes.

Yeah I know preseason MLS fanbase hype is somewhat meaningless. And I honestly think most of the hype around the Rossi signing is because he was the first "young South American signing" of this offseason. I think if that signing occurred after Barco and Kaku had come in, then it wouldn't have received as much hype.

ETA: I'm not saying that Medina won't be a better player than Rossi or that he will. You are right, it is way too early to tell. But a small sample size of eye test is currently telling me that Rossi is a better player.

 

[dummyrun]

Well no.

Because Rossi's track record coming in was much more productive in a more competitive league. In the Uruguayan First Division he played just over 1,000 minutes scoring 4 goals and tabbing 7 assists whereas Medina had 1 goal and 2 assists in 700 minutes.

Yeah I know preseason MLS fanbase hype is somewhat meaningless. And I honestly think most of the hype around the Rossi signing is because he was the first "young South American signing" of this offseason. I think if that signing occurred after Barco and Kaku had come in, then it wouldn't have received as much hype.

ETA: I'm not saying that Medina won't be a better player than Rossi or that he will. You are right, it is way too early to tell. But a small sample size of eye test is currently telling me that Rossi is a better player.

Yeah, I think toward the end there you're getting closer to how MLS hype actually happens.

As for the substantive argument, Rossi's stats at Peñarol were good but then again Peñarol is practically the Man City of Uruguay: their goal differential last year was double the next closest team's. Libertad is a good team too but not nearly as prolific, so you'd expect their attackers to be involved in fewer goals. Plus then you've got to know what Rossi and Medina's tactical roles were, who they were playing alongside, what kind of game situations they earned their minutes in. You've got to know if they were taking set pieces or penalties. You'd also want to compare their performances in Libertadores, where Medina scored and Rossi didn't (meaningless, I know, but that's the point).

In the end, trying to suss out a player's quality from stats like these is hopeless. You need a lot more context than we can scrape together from the internet, so you've got to trust the scouts did their job and see what happens when we've watched the guys play for a season or two.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Yeah, I think toward the end there you're getting closer to how MLS hype actually happens.

As for the substantive argument, Rossi's stats at Peñarol were good but then again Peñarol is practically the Man City of Uruguay: their goal differential last year was double the next closest team's. Libertad is a good team too but not nearly as prolific, so you'd expect their attackers to be involved in fewer goals. Plus then you've got to know what Rossi and Medina's tactical roles were, who they were playing alongside, what kind of game situations they earned their minutes in. You've got to know if they were taking set pieces or penalties. You'd also want to compare their performances in Libertadores, where Medina scored and Rossi didn't (meaningless, I know, but that's the point).

In the end, trying to suss out a player's quality from stats like these is hopeless. You need a lot more context than we can scrape together from the internet, so you've got to trust the scouts did their job and see what happens when we've watched the guys play for a season or two.

I totally get that. To really get to the bottom of a player's quality, you do need to understand all of that. But I think these high level stats are a decent starting point when I'm not going to put in the effort to watch hours of South American game tape.

Again, I'm not saying Medina won't be better. My opinion right now, is based on what I saw out of Rossi last week and yesterday, and that very well may change. I liked a lot of what I saw out of Medina last Sunday and am hoping it gets better.

 

[dummyrun]

I totally get that. To really get to the bottom of a player's quality, you do need to understand all of that. But I think these high level stats are a decent starting point when I'm not going to put in the effort to watch hours of South American game tape.

Again, I'm not saying Medina won't be better. My opinion right now, is based on what I saw out of Rossi last week and yesterday, and that very well may change. I liked a lot of what I saw out of Medina last Sunday and am hoping it gets better.

For sure, I wouldn't expect anybody to watch a bunch of South American league games. Which is exactly why I don't give any weight to the hype. We're all shooting in the dark here.

One important thing we can learn from YouTube, though, is that Medina played almost entirely on the left at Libertad. And we saw him looking a hell of a lot better last weekend on the right, where he can put his good foot to better use. I'm optimistic.

 

[SoupInNYC]

For sure, I wouldn't expect anybody to watch a bunch of South American league games. Which is exactly why I don't give any weight to the hype. We're all shooting in the dark here.

One important thing we can learn from YouTube, though, is that Medina played almost entirely on the left at Libertad. And we saw him looking a hell of a lot better last weekend on the right, where he can put his good foot to better use. I'm optimistic.

Yeah, I don't think we're in much of a disagreement.

I will also say that I think the Medina signing would have been hyped a bunch more if it was the first young South American signing of the offseason.

 

[dummyrun]

Yeah, I don't think we're in much of a disagreement.

I will also say that I think the Medina signing would have been hyped a bunch more if it was the first young South American signing of the offseason.

Might also have helped if the club didn't announce it at like five in the morning on a Sunday because of the international date line or whatever. I bet there are still fans who have no idea who Medina is.

 

[Ulrich]

You can't compare the roster construction of Atlanta/LAFC to ours. Different rules. We got f'ed when you look back now and see how they were able to field their team

Exactly. The amount of garber bucks they have compared to us/orlando is night/day. MLS did the right thing by creating a mechanism for new teams to be competitive (if the FO is intelligent) in their first year rather than making them sacrificial fodder to the other teams in their conference. It’s just painful to see how badly our leadership failed the team that first year, and it’s a shame MLS didn’t create some sort of allotment of garber bucks to NYCFC/Orlando as a way to bridge our reduced expansion (Expansion Beta?) compared to the current rollouts (Expansion Verified?)

 

[SoupInNYC]

Might also have helped if the club didn't announce it at like five in the morning on a Sunday because of the international date line or whatever. I bet there are still fans who have no idea who Medina is.

Not just on a Sunday, on NYE

 

[SoupInNYC]

You can't compare the roster construction of Atlanta/LAFC to ours. Different rules. We got f'ed when you look back now and see how they were able to field their team

If there's any fanbase that truly has a reason to be pissed, its Minnesota.

I was giving them a pass at first for them to maybe figure out at what positions they need their DPs to fill, but at this point, what the hell are they doing?

 

[gbservis]

If there's any fanbase that truly has a reason to be pissed, its Minnesota.

I was giving them a pass at first for them to maybe figure out at what positions they need their DPs to fill, but at this point, what the hell are they doing?

Also, what on earth was the league doing with it's vetting process? Only so many expansion slots to go around, can't be wasting them bringing in cheap owners that are going to hold the overall talent of the league back by not leveraging the roster slots designed to help the league grow.

 

[Kjbert]

Exactly. The amount of garber bucks they have compared to us/orlando is night/day. MLS did the right thing by creating a mechanism for new teams to be competitive (if the FO is intelligent) in their first year rather than making them sacrificial fodder to the other teams in their conference. It’s just painful to see how badly our leadership failed the team that first year, and it’s a shame MLS didn’t create some sort of allotment of garber bucks to NYCFC/Orlando as a way to bridge our reduced expansion (Expansion Beta?) compared to the current rollouts (Expansion Verified?)

Here's the good news. It reduced Kreis' ability to put a long term stamp on this club. In a weird way, it may have been for the best.

 

[Kjbert]

If there's any fanbase that truly has a reason to be pissed, its Minnesota.

I was giving them a pass at first for them to maybe figure out at what positions they need their DPs to fill, but at this point, what the hell are they doing?

Eh. In fairness, MNU has a plan and they are executing on it to a T. They sold this process to their fans. They would spend their money on the stadium and then spend more on players.

 

[Marito]

On the Vela issue, talent has never been the problem. The Real Sociedad fans gave him a warm sendoff, but his tenure there was very rocky, with standoffs, fights with coaches and whatnot. His reputation is that of somebody who could have shone at the highest level and decided not to. He has mused aloud about retiring from soccer more than once, because he is "bored" and wondered if he shouldn't have played a different sport. He quit the NT for no reason. He's the Nick Kyrigios of soccer. It's like signing Ballotelli. He's happy now but if the going gets rough he may be a malcontent by midseason. All the guys who were getting minutes in elite European leagues at their physical primes but decided to come to MLS have to be suspect in terms of personality, ambition, etc. Look at Gio Dos Santos, Barcelona starlet at 18. His talent is limitless, his willpower is tepid.

 

[SoupInNYC]

On the Vela issue, talent has never been the problem. The Real Sociedad fans gave him a warm sendoff, but his tenure there was very rocky, with standoffs, fights with coaches and whatnot. His reputation is that of somebody who could have shone at the highest level and decided not to. He has mused aloud about retiring from soccer more than once, because he is "bored" and wondered if he shouldn't have played a different sport. He quit the NT for no reason. He's the Nick Kyrigios of soccer. It's like signing Ballotelli. He's happy now but if the going gets rough he may be a malcontent by midseason. All the guys who were getting minutes in elite European leagues at their physical primes but decided to come to MLS have to be suspect in terms of personality, ambition, etc. Look at Gio Dos Santos, Barcelona starlet at 18. His talent is limitless, his willpower is tepid.

Helps explain this:
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...lling-liga-mx-teams-concacaf-champions-league

I will point out again that Pirlo was absolutely roasted, not only here but across the league, for making comments that really weren't all that bad about the league. Schweinsteiger made similar comments and got a pass and now Vela is outright rooting against the league he plays in and everyone shrugs.

 

[The Toe]

Gignac.

Also, Year 2 Maxi has been incredible.

 

[The Toe]

https://twitter.com/x/status/974046393848524803

 

[Midas Mulligan]

On the Vela issue, talent has never been the problem. The Real Sociedad fans gave him a warm sendoff, but his tenure there was very rocky, with standoffs, fights with coaches and whatnot. His reputation is that of somebody who could have shone at the highest level and decided not to. He has mused aloud about retiring from soccer more than once, because he is "bored" and wondered if he shouldn't have played a different sport. He quit the NT for no reason. He's the Nick Kyrigios of soccer. It's like signing Ballotelli. He's happy now but if the going gets rough he may be a malcontent by midseason. All the guys who were getting minutes in elite European leagues at their physical primes but decided to come to MLS have to be suspect in terms of personality, ambition, etc. Look at Gio Dos Santos, Barcelona starlet at 18. His talent is limitless, his willpower is tepid.

I’ve always liked Vela. I don’t see him as quite the same as GDS.

I don’t know the entirety of his issues with FMF, but I wish there were an American equivalent willing to just tell USSF to screw off until they cleaned their act up. I’d be shocked if him sitting it out weren’t based on a very, very good reason.

Also, he’s nearly 30 when making his move and he’s lined up to be his club’s talisman. He’s way more Giovinco than Gio, IMO.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I totally get that. To really get to the bottom of a player's quality, you do need to understand all of that. But I think these high level stats are a decent starting point when I'm not going to put in the effort to watch hours of South American game tape.

Again, I'm not saying Medina won't be better. My opinion right now, is based on what I saw out of Rossi last week and yesterday, and that very well may change. I liked a lot of what I saw out of Medina last Sunday and am hoping it gets better.

In this instance, it’s worth pointing out the fees paid. And even more importantly, the clubs and leagues in for the player. The club name doesn’t matter much for players at academy ages, but once they are being talked about as a first team acquisition, you can make lot of what the experts employed by pro soccer clubs see as a ceiling based on who’s in for a guy.

Of course, it’s always possible to change the narrative. But transfer fee is a little like Rivals star rating in that it’s informative but subject to other external factors. clubs in for the guy are the offer list. You know way more based on who else has offered a schollie than you do by ratings. It’s all analogous to what we’re talking about here. There are stats, then there are fees and the clubs willing to pay them.

So as of right now, yes, Rossi is a better player.

For CFG, they don’t have the need to take incremental risk when they can get 50-70% of the upside sell-on with no at-risk capital. CFG can stamp their name and sell a guy for what they paid for Medina. Rossi fee would’ve meant capital at risk.

 

[NYdoesitEZ]

Wasn't just responding to you. I don't think it's all sunshine and unicorns but the amount of negativity on this board in general seems over the top these days.

Maybe we are closer to Steve Jobs than to Jeff Immelt in the spectrum of personalities. We prefer to apply our critical eyes to even smallest weakness where we can improve than to sit there trumpeting how great the state of things are. What you call negativity, we call it relentless pursuit of perfection, never let our guard down and insatiable desire to crush competition at all cost at all time. Just a difference of personal traits and style. Of course, personally I think Jeff Immelt ended up being better off than Jobs in personal department, in my view. One disruptedalmost all tech industries and changed human history but at his own expense and died young. The other one, in spite of running down a great company, got to live long and enjoy his fat cat life. (I am not saying you or other sunny people are like Jeff Immelt, make no mistake, that’s not what I am trying to imply)