Official (random Player Name) To Nycfc Rumor Thread

[doctorhoosier]

Investment does not equal player salaries or transfer fees exclusively.

We have a system designed to balance investment between big name international transfers, and investment in local acaedmies and American player development. There is nothing preventing a team from sinking unlimited funds into setting up a world-class academy here in the States.

The Big Name transfers aren't the ones that improve the quality of play here. In order for this to be a league that gives us attractive soccer, the cap needs a major, major rise.

And even if we sank ungodly amounts of money into our academy, you get two players a year out of that if you're beyond lucky. And after a couple years, if they're good enough, we can't afford to keep them. (See Yedlin, DeAndre.)

It's simply not enough investment to improve the quality of play here. Like it or not, Player Salaries are totally at the heart of that - our developments system isn't good enough to build a quality league on its own, and we're not attracting top level talent at our current wages and with our arcane allocation system.

And we're spending $20 mil because you can pay three players over your cap. The team would be infinitely better quality if we spread that $20 million over the entire roster of players, instead of having 3 guys making $18 million and the rest of the 25 guys making a shared $2.5.

I don't know how you can argue that a team can spend in this environment. You can blow money on three world class players (pretty much entirely for marketing purposes, and they pretty much must be on a free transfer due to allocation money), but if you're trying to build a quality team, you flat out can't spend. That's the system - you can sign stars to fill seats, but you can't sign studs to fill out your roster.

 

[Gotham Gator]

These debates on the salary cap are interesting and probably deserve their own thread at this point.

I find it interesting that nobody is focusing on the most interesting question. Should we continue with the designated player system or change and just go with a much higher salary cap?

Right now, the salary cap is $3.5 million covering your 20 highest paid players. Each DP counts $436K against that, but any excess is effectively ignored. The system encourages clubs to chase star players since that is the only way to significantly exceed the salary cap. The problem is that this leads to topheavy clubs that have 2-3 stars with underpaid journeyman constituting most of the rest. What if the salary cap were increased by the $10-12 million most teams are paying their DPs? Then, teams could decide between a roster of 2-3 stars plus journeymen or 10-15 guys all making 750K or so.

p.s. looks like Hoosier and I were typing the same basic point at the same time.

 

[Gotham Gator]

The taking out the bottom 8 salaries thing is weird. Theoretically wouldn't the strongest approach to building a team be pay 3 DPs and then divide the remaining cap money evenly and then take $1 off 8 of the salaries? That way you are paying the highest possible $$ to the bottom 8 players and you can get better players from top to bottom of the roster?

There is a league minimum, but yes, they are incenting you to keep a few minimum guys on the roster.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

The problem is that you need to have 18-20 americans on your team. there are 20 teams. that is 360 to 400 americans that need to be in the league. If you change the salary cap significantly, those guys all get paid more despite the fact that they are not talented enough to command that money on the open market. The league has the salary cap to stop itself from overpaying americans who would not get paid elsewhere, but are valuable here because you need americans in the league. MLS then makes a bunch of exceptions for other talented players so that teams can get those guys and not have them affect the cap.

Thats how you get 3 DPs who do not affect the cap, you get all the garberbucks that can reduce a players cap hit. Its all just legal mechanisms to keep from hiking up crappy american player values while still allowing good players to come here.

 

[gbservis]

The Big Name transfers aren't the ones that improve the quality of play here. In order for this to be a league that gives us attractive soccer, the cap needs a major, major rise.

And even if we sank ungodly amounts of money into our academy, you get two players a year out of that if you're beyond lucky. And after a couple years, if they're good enough, we can't afford to keep them. (See Yedlin, DeAndre.)

It's simply not enough investment to improve the quality of play here. Like it or not, Player Salaries are totally at the heart of that - our developments system isn't good enough to build a quality league on its own, and we're not attracting top level talent at our current wages and with our arcane allocation system.

And we're spending $20 mil because you can pay three players over your cap. The team would be infinitely better quality if we spread that $20 million over the entire roster of players, instead of having 3 guys making $18 million and the rest of the 25 guys making a shared $2.5.

I don't know how you can argue that a team can spend in this environment. You can blow money on three world class players (pretty much entirely for marketing purposes, and they pretty much must be on a free transfer due to allocation money), but if you're trying to build a quality team, you flat out can't spend. That's the system - you can sign stars to fill seats, but you can't sign studs to fill out your roster.

Everything you say is true, the question is does level of play or big names fill seats? I don't know but right now the MLS is betting that big names are more important to league growth than quality of play. As you point out the current system allows big clubs to spend more but in a way that limits the benefits of the $ advantage. If NYCFC spends $20 mil but mostly on 3 players and Columbus spends $4 mil under the current system Columbus can still compete. Under your proposed system if NYCFC spends $20 mil spread across the roster and Columbus spends $4 mil they will get killed. I dont agree with it but essentially the MLS has decided the way to grow the league is through star players and parity. They have constructed the rules to facilitate both.

 

[gbservis]

The problem is that you need to have 18-20 americans on your team. there are 20 teams. that is 360 to 400 americans that need to be in the league. If you change the salary cap significantly, those guys all get paid more despite the fact that they are not talented enough to command that money on the open market. The league has the salary cap to stop itself from overpaying americans who would not get paid elsewhere, but are valuable here because you need americans in the league. MLS then makes a bunch of exceptions for other talented players so that teams can get those guys and not have them affect the cap.

Thats how you get 3 DPs who do not affect the cap, you get all the garberbucks that can reduce a players cap hit. Its all just legal mechanisms to keep from hiking up crappy american player values while still allowing good players to come here.

But why do you need 18-20 Americans on the team? Is it some type of legal issue or is the assumption that people wont follow a league full of foreign players that cant do interviews and fans can't relate to?

 

[NickA]

The ESPN ratings for this past weekend will be a good indicator of MLS progress with TV.

 

[dannd23]

The ESPN ratings for this past weekend will be a good indicator of MLS progress with TV.

Just released. 300k for NYC derby, 371k for Seattle-Timbers. Great numbers for both, but I expected more for us...

 

[doctorhoosier]

Everything you say is true, the question is does level of play or big names fill seats? I don't know but right now the MLS is betting that big names are more important to league growth than quality of play. As you point out the current system allows big clubs to spend more but in a way that limits the benefits of the $ advantage. If NYCFC spends $20 mil but mostly on 3 players and Columbus spends $4 mil under the current system Columbus can still compete. Under your proposed system if NYCFC spends $20 mil spread across the roster and Columbus spends $4 mil they will get killed. I dont agree with it but essentially the MLS has decided the way to grow the league is through star players and parity. They have constructed the rules to facilitate both.

There really isn't parity, though. Colorado and Philly suck every year, while the Galaxy have as many or more titles over the last decade than the rest of the league combined.

They sell parity, but it's just a mechanism to keep owner costs to a minimum.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

But why do you need 18-20 Americans on the team? Is it some type of legal issue or is the assumption that people wont follow a league full of foreign players that cant do interviews and fans can't relate to?

I don;t know but if i had to guess it would be partly to keep the benches cheap and partly to encourage development of american talent. But it may have to do with average soccer fans not following a team that none of them speak english, who knows.

 

[mgarbowski]

But why do you need 18-20 Americans on the team? Is it some type of legal issue or is the assumption that people wont follow a league full of foreign players that cant do interviews and fans can't relate to?

I don't think it's legal. It's a league decision, based on an intertwined sense of marketing and stewardship. I think there's an honest good-faith sense that th league has a role in developing US soccer, both for the sake of the sport itself and for the national teams, and that this somewhat altruistic idea is heavily mixed with the good feeling that can create among fans and potential fans.

 

[doctorhoosier]

I don't think it's legal. It's a league decision, based on an intertwined sense of marketing and stewardship. I think there's an honest good-faith sense that th league has a role in developing US soccer, both for the sake of the sport itself and for the national teams, and that this somewhat altruistic idea is heavily mixed with the good feeling that can create among fans and potential fans.

I think it's also a requirement of the US Soccer federation for division 1 status, but don't quote me on that.

 

[mgarbowski]

I think it's also a requirement of the US Soccer federation for division 1 status, but don't quote me on that.

I think so too, but was not even certain enough to mention it. I know that one of the conditions for getting the 1994 World Cup was developing a Division One league so all this stuff is intertwined again.

 

[gbservis]

If they add a 4th DP slot to allow LAG to sign Gio, I assume we will also take advantage of it and the fans from the rest of the league will freak out. The amount of crying on /r/mls is going to be amazing!

 

[Gavin23]

How about a luxury tax that only counts non americans. So American players dont count towards the tax. No limit on foreign players though. This way it encourages clubs to play Americans and homegrown players who otherwise might get pushed aside if there was no cap or tax. Is this legal?

 

[Fantazma]

If they add a 4th DP slot to allow LAG to sign Gio, I assume we will also take advantage of it and the fans from the rest of the league will freak out. The amount of crying on /r/mls is going to be amazing!

some spanish media outlets saying its done deal just awaiting personal terms. Still, no one seems to mention there is no 4th DP yet. So unless some MLS announcement is happening soon then i expect some made up rule to let Gio in.

the only issue with gio at times ( though not recently it seems) is the LA nightlife might incline him to enjoy himself a bit more than he should.

 

[doctorhoosier]

I think so too, but was not even certain enough to mention it. I know that one of the conditions for getting the 1994 World Cup was developing a Division One league so all this stuff is intertwined again.

Thinking this is it. It's not specific, but I think it's what they use to set those standards.

From the USSF Pro Standards policy book

The league shall
impose limitations
on each team,
set from time
to time by
the Federation, regarding
the types
of players that may be
listed on
the roster

Edit: Additionally,

iv. League must submit to the Federation an annual report setting forth, in reasonable detail, the status of its compliance with these Standards, including team and league financial information, steps being taken to increase league awareness, long and short term goals for the league, previous year attendance numbers and gate reports, and a description of how each team in the league is demonstrating its commitment to the promotion of soccer in its home market and the development of players at the youth level.

 

[BxLio91]

Sydney touched it in London.

 

[doctorhoosier]

How about a luxury tax that only counts non americans. So American players dont count towards the tax. No limit on foreign players though. This way it encourages clubs to play Americans and homegrown players who otherwise might get pushed aside if there was no cap or tax. Is this legal?

Pretty sure that there are NAFTA compliance issues there.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

How about a luxury tax that only counts non americans. So American players dont count towards the tax. No limit on foreign players though. This way it encourages clubs to play Americans and homegrown players who otherwise might get pushed aside if there was no cap or tax. Is this legal?

Didn't stop TO when they got giovinco