Vancouver - Postmatch

[Revfugee]

ITS was dreadful in the 1st half. Kept getting the ball in the corner and not knowing what to do with it. Terrible crosses, late crosses and slow decision making.

Anyone know who Sweat was telling at on the late goal? I didn't see any mirrors nearby...

He played the goalscorer onside and then forgot to mark him.

Chanot and even the usually solid Callens were both ball watching. Sweat has two options, cover the guy in front of him (who Callens should be marking) or drop to the guy behind him. 50-50 gamble and he made the wrong choice but if the pass goes near post and he’s covering far post we are all screaming about how he didn’t cover the guy in front of him. That goal was just bad team defending. Sweat should have been screaming at Callens to drop off and if he wasn’t, that’s on him. But that was poor organization all around and I will always hang organization errors primarily on the central defenders.

Also clear that Callens lost his composure, maybe only the second time I’ve see that but it was real.

 

[Ulrich]

Chanot and even the usually solid Callens were both ball watching. Sweat has two options, cover the guy in front of him (who Callens should be marking) or drop to the guy behind him. 50-50 gamble and he made the wrong choice but if the pass goes near post and he’s covering far post we are all screaming about how he didn’t cover the guy in front of him. That goal was just bad team defending. Sweat should have been screaming at Callens to drop off and if he wasn’t, that’s on him. But that was poor organization all around and I will always hang organization errors primarily on the central defenders.

Also clear that Callens lost his composure, maybe only the second time I’ve see that but it was real.

Thank you. I’m glad somebody else understands what happened.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Chanot and even the usually solid Callens were both ball watching. Sweat has two options, cover the guy in front of him (who Callens should be marking) or drop to the guy behind him. 50-50 gamble and he made the wrong choice but if the pass goes near post and he’s covering far post we are all screaming about how he didn’t cover the guy in front of him. That goal was just bad team defending. Sweat should have been screaming at Callens to drop off and if he wasn’t, that’s on him. But that was poor organization all around and I will always hang organization errors primarily on the central defenders.

Also clear that Callens lost his composure, maybe only the second time I’ve see that but it was real.

I was also wondering whether it was poor communication on the goalie's part. Or just unfamiliar communication, really. Same with the first goal.

 

[Annagram]

Chanot and even the usually solid Callens were both ball watching. Sweat has two options, cover the guy in front of him (who Callens should be marking) or drop to the guy behind him. 50-50 gamble and he made the wrong choice but if the pass goes near post and he’s covering far post we are all screaming about how he didn’t cover the guy in front of him. That goal was just bad team defending. Sweat should have been screaming at Callens to drop off and if he wasn’t, that’s on him. But that was poor organization all around and I will always hang organization errors primarily on the central defenders.

Also clear that Callens lost his composure, maybe only the second time I’ve see that but it was real.

From what I've seen, Callens tends to make real howlers every now and then. Not often, but they often lead to conceding a goal. Yet he seems to enjoy a reputation as a solid and dependable reputation, which is perhaps 75% right.

 

[Seven]

Figured I would post this in case people don’t normally read Armchair Analyst



“This is a very different way of approaching the game from what this team did under Patrick Vieira. I respect Torrent's attempt to put his own mark on the team (even if I think many of his personnel choices are bad), and I still think NYCFC are much more good than bad. I still think they're one of the three or four best teams in MLS.

But here's a note my colleague Bobby Warshaw sent me, and I agree with every word:

NYCFC has been great at times – MTL and Columbus wins – but also really bad at times. If they click, they could be the best team in the league; but I’m worried they are tinkering so much and it makes whether they click on a given day random and unpredictable/untrustworthy.”

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/08/05/armchair-analyst-josefs-binge-nycfcs-donut-more-week-23

He also talks a lot about the formation employed, but I don’t know enough to know if he was completely accurate

 

[dummyrun]

Figured I would post this in case people don’t normally read Armchair Analyst



“This is a very different way of approaching the game from what this team did under Patrick Vieira. I respect Torrent's attempt to put his own mark on the team (even if I think many of his personnel choices are bad), and I still think NYCFC are much more good than bad. I still think they're one of the three or four best teams in MLS.

But here's a note my colleague Bobby Warshaw sent me, and I agree with every word:

NYCFC has been great at times – MTL and Columbus wins – but also really bad at times. If they click, they could be the best team in the league; but I’m worried they are tinkering so much and it makes whether they click on a given day random and unpredictable/untrustworthy.”

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/08/05/armchair-analyst-josefs-binge-nycfcs-donut-more-week-23

He also talks a lot about the formation employed, but I don’t know enough to know if he was completely accurate

Doyle's description of NYCFC's tactics against Vancouver is accurate and worth reading. And Warshaw's right that Dome has been tinkering a lot, although he doesn't mention that it's mostly for personnel reasons.

What I don't get are Doyle's tepid conclusions. NYCFC hasn't been "more good than bad" under Dome—we've been the better team in all eight games. We've controlled the ball, and not just in our own half any more, but with sustained possession in the attacking third. We've pressed high and stifled opponents' attacks. We've rolled out sophisticated new tactical concepts that no other team in the league is using. And we've done it with a rotating cast of backups and new players under a coach who arrived midseason.

Since Torrent took over, only Atlanta has a better expected goal differential, only Portland's been better in an even gamestate, and no team in the league has been better than NYCFC from open play. To "still think they're one of the three or four best teams in MLS" shouldn't be some begrudging concession or hot take—it's just stating the obvious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1026398366920581120

 

[mgarbowski]

What I don't get are Doyle's tepid conclusions. NYCFC hasn't been "more good than bad" under Dome—we've been the better team in all eight games.

To "still think they're one of the three or four best teams in MLS" shouldn't be some begrudging concession or hot take, it should be universally understood.

Everyone is convinced Doyle and MLS digital has it out for them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1018598917452324864

That's from a few weeks ago. This week, Doyle's very extended take on Atlanta in the same article you discuss is that the current number 1 team in the league drops too many points in games it dominates, nobody scores but Martinez, and Almiron can't finish. There are 13 paragraphs of that. It's what Doyle does. But everyone thinks it's particularly directed to them.
Meanwhile, NYC dropped a place in the standings this week, has 4 points out of the last 9, and those most recent 9 potential points were against easier opponents than any 3 games left in the rest of the schedule. Plus, narratively, we dropped the points on Saturday in substantial part due to a play that perfectly ties directly in to the tactical analysis that he wrote up, by giving up a stupid goal on a counter straight up the middle. What else is he going to write? Your Dome/Patrick deep stat split is valid, persuasive, and hopeful, but Doyle doesn't do deep sabermetric style stat analysis.
It's OK for him to be a bit of an Eeyore about NYC right now. And I don't think he, or Warshaw, would be at all surprised if we did click and win out.

The lowest NYC has been in the MLS Power Rankings this year is 6. That is the highest low of any team in the league. Atlanta and RB have both been as low as 7. LAFC was ranked 17, and Portland and Dallas have been as low as 18.
MLS digital, including Doyle, respects us. They really do respect us.

 

[dummyrun]

Everyone is convinced Doyle and MLS digital has it out for them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1018598917452324864

That's from a few weeks ago. This week, Doyle's very extended take on Atlanta in the same article you discuss is that the current number 1 team in the league drops too many points in games it dominates, nobody scores but Martinez, and Almiron can't finish. There are 13 paragraphs of that. It's what Doyle does. But everyone thinks it's particularly directed to them.
Meanwhile, NYC dropped a place in the standings this week, has 4 points out of the last 9, and those most recent 9 potential points were against easier opponents than any 3 games left in the rest of the schedule. Plus, narratively, we dropped the points on Saturday in substantial part due to a play that perfectly ties directly in to the tactical analysis that he wrote up, by giving up a stupid goal on a counter straight up the middle. What else is he going to write? Your Dome/Patrick deep stat split is valid, persuasive, and hopeful, but Doyle doesn't do deep sabermetric style stat analysis.
It's OK for him to be a bit of an Eeyore about NYC right now. And I don't think he, or Warshaw, would be at all surprised if we did click and win out.

The lowest NYC has been in the MLS Power Rankings this year is 6. That is the highest low of any team in the league. Atlanta and RB have both been as low as 7. LAFC was ranked 17, and Portland and Dallas have been as low as 18.
MLS digital, including Doyle, respects us. They really do respect us.

Don't you put Atlanta's persecution complex on me like that.

 

[Gotham Gator]

We played down to the level of our opponent. It’s been a problem all season.

 

[Shwafta]

All I get out of Doyle's analysis is that if Martinez gets injured, MLS and Don Garbage are gonna have a fit as ATL flounder.

 

[LionNYC]

Everyone is convinced Doyle and MLS digital has it out for them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1018598917452324864

That's from a few weeks ago. This week, Doyle's very extended take on Atlanta in the same article you discuss is that the current number 1 team in the league drops too many points in games it dominates, nobody scores but Martinez, and Almiron can't finish. There are 13 paragraphs of that. It's what Doyle does. But everyone thinks it's particularly directed to them.
Meanwhile, NYC dropped a place in the standings this week, has 4 points out of the last 9, and those most recent 9 potential points were against easier opponents than any 3 games left in the rest of the schedule. Plus, narratively, we dropped the points on Saturday in substantial part due to a play that perfectly ties directly in to the tactical analysis that he wrote up, by giving up a stupid goal on a counter straight up the middle. What else is he going to write? Your Dome/Patrick deep stat split is valid, persuasive, and hopeful, but Doyle doesn't do deep sabermetric style stat analysis.
It's OK for him to be a bit of an Eeyore about NYC right now. And I don't think he, or Warshaw, would be at all surprised if we did click and win out.

The lowest NYC has been in the MLS Power Rankings this year is 6. That is the highest low of any team in the league. Atlanta and RB have both been as low as 7. LAFC was ranked 17, and Portland and Dallas have been as low as 18.
MLS digital, including Doyle, respects us. They really do respect us.

If only the league office and PRO respected fair outcomes of matches.

Rivero and PRO and MLS saw Atlanta drop points and screwed us so we wouldn’t climb the CCL table.

 

[Seven]

We played down to the level of our opponent. It’s been a problem all season.

Has it been? I feel like other then this past weekend, and maybe Houston, this hasn’t been an issue. Especially when we have multiple 4-0 and 3-0 wins

 

[Kjbert]

Y'all should watch this one again when we're done with the dark night of the soul stuff. That 4-1-4-1 with inverted fullbacks is the future, man.

This is the formation we need to play moving forward. I think Taty and Medina were in the wrong positions.

 

[Kjbert]

I know Berget makes a lot of money but he allows us to play a different style and I'm a big fan of his.

I think Taty needs to have a chance to play centrally underneath a striker. He can make runs into the box and drive at defenders.

Medina is a wide player for us with the players we now have on the roster. I'm not sure he's a starting XI player when all are healthy.

Maxi gets better and better.

Ring was only above average.

ITS hasn't been the same player post injury.

I thought our CBs were fine.

Tinnerholm does so much that goes unnoticed. Positionally, he is flawless. Allows guys like Mata and Sweat on the other side to do whatever they want.

Stuver is not good. We win that game is Johnson is healthy. I don't care to ever see him play again. It's obvious that he's not the caliber of goalkeeper that we can win with.

 

[LionNYC]

Ring was only above average.

Because he was the lone DM. Usually we have Ofori. Or once Herrera next to him in the midfield. We used to play in a 4-3-3 with two DMs and a CM up top. Now it's like two CMs and a DM underneath. This allows for more lapses in defenses and easier for one pass to break the lines. That's how Vancouver scored their first goal.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Has it been? I feel like other then this past weekend, and maybe Houston, this hasn’t been an issue. Especially when we have multiple 4-0 and 3-0 wins

Well, that's been my impression. So, let's see.

Against the top 10 teams in the Power Rankings, we are 5-3-3 for 18 points on 11 games.

Against the other 13 teams, we are 8-2-2 for 26 points in 12 games. So, we are a bit better on average against the poorer teams, but only a bit.

I don't know. I feel like between Houston, Seattle and now Vancouver, this has been an increasing problem. Maybe some of my attitude here was colored by our game against Portland, which looked like shitting the bed at the time, but Portland has turned out to be much better than we thought (although I still feel like we underperformed).

 

[Gotham Gator]

Because he was the lone DM. Usually we have Ofori. Or once Herrera next to him in the midfield. We used to play in a 4-3-3 with two DMs and a CM up top. Now it's like two CMs and a DM underneath. This allows for more lapses in defenses and easier for one pass to break the lines. That's how Vancouver scored their first goal.

Agree.

Worth noting that what put Vancouver out on the break was Ring rushing forward to intercept a pass, but coming away empty. That produced acres of space in the middle, which nobody wanted to close down.

 

[Kjbert]

No doubt about it that he was on an island. But that only created an issue ok the first goal. We absolutely dominated that game.

And I think we looked better with Ring as the sole defensive midfielder, playing on the front foot than when we took our foot off the peddle with Kwame in.

Sometimes, the best defense is just simple possession. I can't fathom that Sandsis a worse player for what we do than Kwame. Kwame is a slightly better Mikey Lopez and he's fidgety with the ball.

 

[dummyrun]

Because he was the lone DM. Usually we have Ofori. Or once Herrera next to him in the midfield. We used to play in a 4-3-3 with two DMs and a CM up top. Now it's like two CMs and a DM underneath. This allows for more lapses in defenses and easier for one pass to break the lines. That's how Vancouver scored their first goal.

Ring was the lone DM in our 4-3-3. Here's a plot of the average pass location for each NYCFC mid from March 3 through the May 5 loss to RBNY, before Vieira started experimenting with the 3-5-2.

 

[LionNYC]

Ring was the lone DM in our 4-3-3. Here's a plot of the average pass location for each NYCFC mid from March 3 through the May 5 loss to RBNY, before Vieira started experimenting with the 3-5-2.

Okay, but in terms of defensive capabilities...

1. Ring
.
2. Ofori
.
3. Herrera
.
.
.
.
.
.
4. Awuah
.
.
.
5. Medina