Yaya Toure to set to come to NYCFC?

I posted this in the wanted players thread but something that I don’t read amongst those against this signing is the difference a manager makes, has wth Yaya, and how Vieira is someone that Yaya will respect.

All of his seasons of low work rate came under Pellegrini who had a soft touch as was a lame duck manager which worked for his first season following Mancini who the players hated because he was too abrasive. Before that Yaya was known as a hard worker and great teammate. I think several players showed similar problems with effort (ie Dzeko, Kolarov and look at them now) as with any team some players benefit more from a good manager, which I think Vieira is.

Pep commanded Yaya’s respect getting him to lose weight and work hard to get back into the team. He then did after being benched at the start of last season and had an excellent season last year, where we saw him running more, contributing more defensively, and earning a new contract when many thought he would be gone after last season.

Vieira, like Yaya,is a francophone of African descent, and a widely respected manger/legendary player who by being black, and I say that because Yaya cares very much about racial equality issues, surely wants Vieira to succeed surrounding the huge issue regarding the lack of black managers at clubs, and top clubs in particular.
 
I posted this in the wanted players thread but something that I don’t read amongst those against this signing is the difference a manager makes, has wth Yaya, and how Vieira is someone that Yaya will respect.

All of his seasons of low work rate came under Pellegrini who had a soft touch as was a lame duck manager which worked for his first season following Mancini who the players hated because he was too abrasive. Before that Yaya was known as a hard worker and great teammate. I think several players showed similar problems with effort (ie Dzeko, Kolarov and look at them now) as with any team some players benefit more from a good manager, which I think Vieira is.

Pep commanded Yaya’s respect getting him to lose weight and work hard to get back into the team. He then did after being benched at the start of last season and had an excellent season last year, where we saw him running more, contributing more defensively, and earning a new contract when many thought he would be gone after last season.

Vieira, like Yaya,is a francophone of African descent, and a widely respected manger/legendary player who by being black, and I say that because Yaya cares very much about racial equality issues, surely wants Vieira to succeed surrounding the huge issue regarding the lack of black managers at clubs, and top clubs in particular.
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We get it Yaya, you wanna come to NYC
 
I haven't really commented in this thread because I've honestly found it virtually impossible to decide which side of the fence I come down on. Having had...well, multiple weeks...to think about it I have to admit that my uncertainty over the success of the move is ultimately winning out. I think Yaya has the potential to deal with MLS' style and succeed here, but at the end of the day I just can't shake the concern that all the fears in here about him simply not working hard enough and being Pirlo 2.0 would prove to be accurate.

If he comes I won't complain (until he starts failing to carry his weight) but if I were given a choice I'd begrudgingly have to vote against. We don't know how it would work out and when in this position all you can do is play the averages, and those averages tell me he's more likely to fail than succeed.
 
I haven't really commented in this thread because I've honestly found it virtually impossible to decide which side of the fence I come down on. Having had...well, multiple weeks...to think about it I have to admit that my uncertainty over the success of the move is ultimately winning out. I think Yaya has the potential to deal with MLS' style and succeed here, but at the end of the day I just can't shake the concern that all the fears in here about him simply not working hard enough and being Pirlo 2.0 would prove to be accurate.

If he comes I won't complain (until he starts failing to carry his weight) but if I were given a choice I'd begrudgingly have to vote against. We don't know how it would work out and when in this position all you can do is play the averages, and those averages tell me he's more likely to fail than succeed.
Was thinking of writing a similar post.

I think there are reasons to think this would be Frank / Andrea v3:
  • Age, injuries
  • Potential motivation issues
  • Relying on a midfielder to make DP-level production happen, when he will have to work through perhaps less talented people vs. scoring goals by himself.
  • Being anchored by past achievement / reputation / marketing appeal
  • Questions over when he'd join and that a DP slot may go to waste for half a season
There are some reasons to think he might buck the trend, too:
  • Yaya has strength, if not pace
  • He's rather famous for making things happen by himself rather than needing other players to make things happen
Overall, I stop short of saying he would definitely be a disaster, and can imagine a success scenario being glorious for us. But it would be a surprise.

I haven't studied up on too many Almiron-type players, but I'd be curious whether we'd prefer:
  • Aging, high risk, high upside players with massive downside.
  • Middle of the road, low risk, moderate reward players (e.g. Maxi)
  • Young, decent risk with high upside / moderate downside players like Veron / Almiron.
  • Other DP profile I haven't thought of.
I'd probably prefer the young DP because we haven't tread that path before and the lower budget charge.
 
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We get it Yaya, you wanna come to NYC

I see, so you don't care or know how to discuss points, you care to act like a middle school bully or troll. I don't appreciate your attempts to play me for a cheap joke.

Wack.

I challenge you to offer an actual response to my points, which I articulated in a mature, respectful manner instead of trying to cater to an audience who thinks this is a way to discuss things, by using memes meant to insult me (reminds me of the RealGM sport forums, where I don't waste my time on), which is odd given you don't even know me other than I said I want us to sign Yaya. That seems like an awfully small amount of info to take such a position towards someone else.
 
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I'm not sure how this whole discussion didn't end with "signing Yaya would be super MLS 2.0 and we're trying to move on from that."
 
Was thinking of writing a similar post.

I think there are reasons to think this would be Frank / Andrea v3:
  • Age, injuries
  • Potential motivation issues
  • Relying on a midfielder to make DP-level production happen, when he will have to work through perhaps less talented people vs. scoring goals by himself.
  • Being anchored by past achievement / reputation / marketing appeal
  • Questions over when he'd join and that a DP slot may go to waste for half a season
There are some reasons to think he might buck the trend, too:
  • Yaya has strength, if not pace
  • He's rather famous for making things happen by himself rather than needing other players to make things happen
Overall, I stop short of saying he would definitely be a disaster, and can imagine a success scenario being glorious for us. But it would be a surprise.

I haven't studied up on too many Almiron-type players, but I'd be curious whether we'd prefer:
  • Aging, high risk, high upside players with massive downside.
  • Middle of the road, low risk, moderate reward players (e.g. Maxi)
  • Young, decent risk with high upside / moderate downside players like Veron / Almiron.
  • Other DP profile I haven't thought of.
I'd probably prefer the young DP because we haven't tread that path before and the lower budget charge.

Appreciate such a fair response to the topic at hand.

You are also taking risks when you try to sign say, Almiron, in terms of leaving in less than a year due to transfer interest abroad.

There are already rumors that Arsenal, Newcastle, AC Milan and Inter are interested in him, so he could quite easily want to leave with the Janauary window opening (I know the claim is some "think" he will stay, but that seems like a risky thought), and he's exactly the kind of player that tends to move then, and any player like that is going to be a risk come the European January transfer window period.
 
I haven't studied up on too many Almiron-type players, but I'd be curious whether we'd prefer:
  • Aging, high risk, high upside players with massive downside.
  • Middle of the road, low risk, moderate reward players (e.g. Maxi)
  • Young, decent risk with high upside / moderate downside players like Veron / Almiron.
  • Other DP profile I haven't thought of.
I'd probably prefer the young DP because we haven't tread that path before and the lower budget charge.

The challenge going to young route like Atlanta did with Almiron is turnover. It seems likely that he will be sold this winter. Regardless of how talented guys like Almiron are I'm not sure you can be successful with that level of turnover. Maybe if you only do it with 1 DP slot and use the other 2 for stability. A lot of it also seems to be position dependant. Looking back historically no DP is a sure thing but players that fit the following 3 categories seem to have higher odds of working out:

1. Attackers from top tier teams in Europe that are 32 or younger at the time of their signings: Villa, Henry, Robbie Keane
2. Late 20's lesser known proven players: Valeri, Piatti
3. High potential young up and coming players: Almiron, Fabian Castillo

On the flip side players that have consistently turned out to be disappointing DPs are midfielders from top flight european teams that join the MLS at age 32 or older: Lampard, Gerrard, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger.
 
I see, so you don't care or know how to discuss points, you care to act like a middle school bully or troll. I don't appreciate your attempts to play me for a cheap joke.

Wack.

I challenge you to offer an actual response to my points, which I articulated in a mature, respectful manner instead of trying to cater to an audience who thinks this is a way to discuss things, by using memes meant to insult me (reminds me of the RealGM sport forums, where I don't waste my time on), which is odd given you don't even know me other than I said I want us to sign Yaya. That seems like an awfully small amount of info to take such a position towards someone else.

Lol, ok. The reason I responded as such is because you have only 5 posts prior to these recent ones, the last coming in August 2016, and all of a sudden, have gone on a YaYa tear, building him up to be some amazing world beater. If you think my post was insulting, then I apologize, wasn't meant to other than to point the above point out.

But if you want me to provide an actual response to your points, here goes....

Wait, Yaya is not a playmaker? Y'all got jokes, huh?

Yaya is the definition of playmaker.

Henry was a goal scorer, who could also create for others, where as Yaya is a playmaker who can also score (from free kicks and penalties he's amongst the best there is in the world - he has yet to miss one pen for Man City in his entire career, and in 2014 was single handedly carrying the team scoring 20 goals and many from free kicks, but he is also a threat to score from open play if you give him any space outside of the box)
You mention that Yaya is "the definition of a playmaker", which is a very bold statement for someone who going back the last 2.5 seasons has scored only 12 goals (3 being PKs) with 8 assists. This, on a team that consistently finishes at the top of the table within the Premier League and has one of the most prolific EPL goal scorers in Aguero to work with.

You say he can score from free kicks, going back through the 2014/2015 season, he has totaled 3 set piece goals (note that I'm not sure this means as a FK taker or a recipient) across all competitions where he has started in 98 matches.

You say he is one of the best PK takers in the world. I'm honestly not going to argue against this because I don't study PK takers enough to honestly dispute this with an argument that I am sure on. But we don't need to bring anyone in just so we have a solid PK taker. That's silly.

You say that YaYa can score if you give him any space outside the box in open play. Sure, kind of, I guess. He hasn't scored one from outside the box since the 2015/2016 season. Tommy McNamara has scored 5 in that same span.

He is a beast aka Man Not Machine (was his nickname) with the ball at his feet, using deft touches playing one-twos, incredible curling cross pitch passes, and generally just keeping the ball and creating for his teammates. He will score goals with his incredible power and technical ability, is a leader, and should be a significant upgrade on Pirlo this past season.
Correct in that his nickname WAS "Man not Machine". If you Google "YaYa Toure Nickname" now you will find "Grandpa" and "Uncle YaYa" as his nickname, coming from Pep and Sterling.

Everything else here I cannot dispute with objective evidence. However, I will dispute whether or not he creates for his teammates as much anymore. He has just two appearances this season in the EPL, and last year in 22 starts and 1,947 minutes had 0 assists. He averaged 0.8 key passes that season (Pirlo averaged 1.3 this last season in what was arguably his worst year in MLS)

Yaya is as a very passionate and firey player on the pitch from what I have seen, and heard, and in fact sometimes arguing with refs and standing up for his teammates. So this idea he is laid back is completely false. He's considered a great character and outspoken about global topics off the pitch, like Henry was, but some of his mistakes have been very focused upon off the pitch instead, of which one cannot deny he did do to himself.

His biggest question marks surrounding him is his effort and pace on the field and that is why people argue that he is laid back. Not because he occasionally argues with the ref on a call or confronts an opponent after a hard foul on a teammate. If we need that, we can just sign someone straight from the NHL.

I don't care what global topics he talks about off the pitch. Maybe others do.

I believe he would do very well for us and is 4 years younger than Pirlo, so I think we could get at least 2 years from him. Add him to the team this past season and I think we would have never been out of it after the first leg against Columbus.
He is currently 4 years younger than Pirlo, yes. We signed Pirlo 2.5 years ago off of a UEFA Champions League Final team and while he had a decent first year and a half with us, was never a massive difference maker on the field. There is no evidence to suggest that someone who has 29 minutes of playing time this year will be an improvement there.

The idea of being against DP's because of their age is mostly useless anyway, as you can't get this kind of quality younger. He'd be here to help us to get over the hump, and I have little doubt he could do it.
Ummm, yes you can. Giovinco, Allesandrini, Valeri, Lodeiro, Almiron, Villalba, etc., etc., etc. And those are just guys in the league. There are a ton of players out there that can be had that have more quality and are younger.

This is a ridiculous statement.

Vieira, like Yaya,is a francophone of African descent, and a widely respected manger/legendary player who by being black, and I say that because Yaya cares very much about racial equality issues, surely wants Vieira to succeed surrounding the huge issue regarding the lack of black managers at clubs, and top clubs in particular.
This post is completely subjective and is presumptuous and honestly frightening to a degree. To suggest that YaYa will play harder at NYCFC because PV is black and YaYa cares about racial equality issues is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this board a while.
 
I'll be in on Yaya if anyone can name me a midfielder that moved from the EPL to the MLS at age 34 or older in the last 10 years that was considered a success.
 
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I'll be in on Yaya if anyone can name me a midfielder that moved from the EPL to the MLS at age 34 or older in the last 10 years that was considered a success.

I know that my knowledge of the broader league at large is lacking, but I'm struggling to even name any midfielders who have moved from the PL to MLS at 34 or older in the last 10 years, the obvious one of our own excepting, let alone ones who succeeded.
 
I know that my knowledge of the broader league at large is lacking, but I'm struggling to even name any midfielders who have moved from the PL to MLS at 34 or older in the last 10 years, the obvious one of our own excepting, let alone ones who succeeded.

Fair enough, we can expand it to players that have played for champions league level clubs and it doesn't get much better. From my memory that gives us:

- Gerrard
- Lampard
- Pirlo
- Kaka
- Bastian

Expanding to a slightly lower age and a bit less known for a larger sample size
- De Jong (31 on arrival)
- Antonio Nocerino (31 on arrival)

I'm sure I'm forgetting some and it's not a huge sample but the history of older midfielders coming to MLS is not good. The more attacking type players like Kaka and Lampard seem to fair better when healthy but none of those guys has lived up to their billing or their salary over the span of the contract.
 
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