2017 Preseason Thread

[Kjbert]

Define ballhawk

For him or in general?

For him, he uses his speed and athleticism to pressure the opposing player and try and take them off the ball or rush them into making a decision. While he's very good at "chasing the game" he is mediocre from a positioning standpoint and can sometimes over-extend. This is an issue when you have a poor defensive formation and FBs that push up the field like we do.

In general, a ballhawk should pressure the opposing player and force them into poor decisions. He should use his positional awareness and IQ to force mistakes instead of just his legs or athleticism.

That is something that Lopez lacks, but for $51,500 a year, that first player I described is pretty good to have for 20 minutes a game.

 

[Ulrich]

If that's all you think Lopez does, then you should just stop watching the game. You'll never fully appreciate it.

I think I have a pretty good grasp of the nuances on the field.

Mikey has been in the league since 2013 (drafted 14) and he's still making the bare minimum salary. Even RJ, who was scooped up off the street and not a 1st round pick is making more and just got a new contract. In a league that is Cap-tied, money is given to those that are rated highly and/or are expected to perform based on past stats/clubs. It's not just the individual clubs that negotiate a player's value, but also the league - so there is some sort of group-think that says he deserves entry-level wages.

Is he a good back-end roster player, yes definitely. But he should absolutely not be getting regular minutes nor be placed in a position to start. He's just not a complete player.

 

[Ulrich]

Mix Diskerud is a shithead to deal with. It has nothing to do with a contractual stalemate. Mix could see the field if he really wanted to. He's ruining his own career.

What? When have you ever dealt with him?

Are you referring to his interactions with the club - if so, how do you know he's being he shithead and not PV or Reyna? I don't think anybody can know who is actually the shithead, but if I was in his shoes, I'd be pointing to my contract too. I'm sure if I had a better offer somewhere else I'd take it, but if not then I'd damn well make sure my current iron-clad contract was honored. Anybody that thinks he should be a martyr and transfer to another club for less isn't in touch with reality.

 

[Kjbert]

I think I have a pretty good grasp of the nuances on the field.

Mikey has been in the league since 2013 (drafted 14) and he's still making the bare minimum salary. Even RJ, who was scooped up off the street and not a 1st round pick is making more and just got a new contract. In a league that is Cap-tied, money is given to those that are rated highly and/or are expected to perform based on past stats/clubs. It's not just the individual clubs that negotiate a player's value, but also the league - so there is some sort of group-think that says he deserves entry-level wages.

Is he a good back-end roster player, yes definitely. But he should absolutely not be getting regular minutes nor be placed in a position to start. He's just not a complete player.

Mikey is a role player. That's what the club expects of him. He was drafted by SKC to be a regular, every week player. He isn't one and I am not advocating for him to become one. He has a clearly defined role on this team.

Don't take for granted how hard it is to find role players - guys who buy into the team structure and are comfortable doing the dirty work - even if that means swallowing their pride.

 

[Kjbert]

What? When have you ever dealt with him?

Are you referring to his interactions with the club - if so, how do you know he's being he shithead and not PV or Reyna? I don't think anybody can know who is actually the shithead, but if I was in his shoes, I'd be pointing to my contract too. I'm sure if I had a better offer somewhere else I'd take it, but if not then I'd damn well make sure my current iron-clad contract was honored. Anybody that thinks he should be a martyr and transfer to another club for less isn't in touch with reality.

I am referring to his interactions with the club and management specifically.

I don't understand why you keep going back to his contract. As I've stated a thousand times, it has nothing to do with his contract. His contract states he is to make $750,000 a year. That's it. The issues have NOTHING to do with his contract. Maybe we should begin a kickstarter campaign for you to get reading comprehension classes.

 

[Ulrich]

I am referring to his interactions with the club and management specifically.

I don't understand why you keep going back to his contract. As I've stated a thousand times, it has nothing to do with his contract. His contract states he is to make $750,000 a year. That's it. The issues have NOTHING to do with his contract. Maybe we should begin a kickstarter campaign for you to get reading comprehension classes.

Dude, it's not reading comprehension. He hasn't had a single interaction with the club/management that can be considered "off". He is the epitome of a team player doing everything asked of him via practices, appearances, etc. if the club doesn't play him, it's on them, not on him for being a supposed "Shithead." What other intersections are you talking about, cryptic tweets that are more Twin Peaks than Donald Trump?

If you want to start a kick-starter campaign, I'm happy to be the recipient, but I guarantee it won't go toward reading classes.

 

[Kjbert]

Dude, it's not reading comprehension. He hasn't had a single interaction with the club/management that can be considered "off". He is the epitome of a team player doing everything asked of him via practices, appearances, etc. if the club doesn't play him, it's on them, not on him for being a supposed "Shithead." What other intersections are you talking about, cryptic tweets that are more Twin Peaks than Donald Trump?

If you want to start a kick-starter campaign, I'm happy to be the recipient, but I guarantee it won't go toward reading classes.

Well, you're wrong. He hasn't done everything that is asked of him. He has a very different idea of the role he could play here and his commitment to the process.

 

[Ulrich]

Well, you're wrong. He hasn't done everything that is asked of him. He has a very different idea of the role he could play here and his commitment to the process.

I'm not privy to the practices and what's being asked of who, but what you're describing is a concerted effort by a player to undermine a coach's instructions, and there's been no indication from any camp that this is the case.

Let me ask you a question. During your professional career (or even in school), have you ever had a boss (teacher) that advocates an idea or a way of doing things, and you do everything you can do to achieve it while thinking you are succeeding at the task, and yet you're told you aren't? Sometimes concepts aren't conveyed well and sometimes concepts aren't grasped, and sometimes two people have a definite idea of what each other is trying to say and yet are in reality skewed.

But here's the thing, unless the team buys out Mix's contract, they're stuck with him. And if they're stuck with him they damn well better use him. And if the issue is that Mix doesn't grasp what PV is asking him to do, then it's on the Manager to figure out how to convey instructions/tactics that do integrate the player in a way the player grasps and buys in to. Coaching is not one-size fits all, an effective coach understands how to get the message across to all of the players with whatever method is needed. Managing people is no different in my line of work, I'm sure it's the same with yours, just as it is in sports.

 

[Kjbert]

You and I have wildly different ideas of what it means to be an employee.

Patrick Vieira is an all timer. Claudio Reyna may be the best American to ever play the game.

I don't know if either can coach or manage, but they've earned some credibility.

If a guy is a cancer in the locker room, refuses to put in the effort of other players, refuses to take direction, the manager has every right to bench the player. From a management perspective, you SHOULD bench that player. You don't get to do what you want and play on Saturday afternoons.

Mix has chosen to take his paycheck and live his life. He is entitled to getting paid. He's not entitled to play.

 

[Ulrich]

You and I have wildly different ideas of what it means to be an employee.

Patrick Vieira is an all timer. Claudio Reyna may be the best American to ever play the game.

I don't know if either can coach or manage, but they've earned some credibility.

If a guy is a cancer in the locker room, refuses to put in the effort of other players, refuses to take direction, the manager has every right to bench the player. From a management perspective, you SHOULD bench that player. You don't get to do what you want and play on Saturday afternoons.

Mix has chosen to take his paycheck and live his life. He is entitled to getting paid. He's not entitled to play.

As of yet, there are no indications he's a cancer in the locker room or refuses to take direction. He may not grasp what is being asked of him, but it's highly unlikely PV tells him to go do A and he consciously decides to do D. The idea that that is what's happening is farcical.

Whether you and I have differing views of what it means to be an employee, I'd hope you understand what it means to be a manager of people and that it's better to make use of the assets and skills of those under you rather than casting them aside when firing is not an option. PV is handling Mix like a European manager would, who can either banish a player to train on their own/with the reserves or jettison anybody at the transfer window without a second thought; that doesn't fly in MLS with a finite Cap and strict roster rules. This isn't Liverpool dealing with Ballotelli or Jose freezing out Bastian - organizations with unlimited resources and Type-A coaches, it's MLS where ignoring 15-20% of the Cap is grounds for malpractice.

You and I will likely never see eye to eye on this, and that's fine.

 

[Kjbert]

As of yet, there are no indications he's a cancer in the locker room or refuses to take direction. He may not grasp what is being asked of him, but it's highly unlikely PV tells him to go do A and he consciously decides to do D. The idea that that is what's happening is farcical.

Whether you and I have differing views of what it means to be an employee, I'd hope you understand what it means to be a manager of people and that it's better to make use of the assets and skills of those under you rather than casting them aside when firing is not an option. PV is handling Mix like a European manager would, who can either banish a player to train on their own/with the reserves or jettison anybody at the transfer window without a second thought; that doesn't fly in MLS with a finite Cap and strict roster rules. This isn't Liverpool dealing with Ballotelli or Jose freezing out Bastian - organizations with unlimited resources and Type-A coaches, it's MLS where ignoring 15-20% of the Cap is grounds for malpractice.

You and I will likely never see eye to eye on this, and that's fine.

I'm sorry but the cap should have no implication on whether or not a player plays. It was a mistake to sign him, in hindsight. Other than that, if he won't take direction and put in the effort, that's on him.

If PV tells him to jump, Mix should say, "how high?" and not, "why?"

 

[Midas Mulligan]

You and I have wildly different ideas of what it means to be an employee.

Patrick Vieira is an all timer. Claudio Reyna may be the best American to ever play the game.

I don't know if either can coach or manage, but they've earned some credibility.

If a guy is a cancer in the locker room, refuses to put in the effort of other players, refuses to take direction, the manager has every right to bench the player. From a management perspective, you SHOULD bench that player. You don't get to do what you want and play on Saturday afternoons.

Mix has chosen to take his paycheck and live his life. He is entitled to getting paid. He's not entitled to play.

Just give us an example "of the sort" of thing Mix has done that qualify as shithead behavior. I'm just really interested in what rises to the level of perma-benching and yet doesn't mandate a severing of the contractual relationship.

 

[Schwallacus]

Just give us an example "of the sort" of thing Mix has done that qualify as shithead behavior. I'm just really interested in what rises to the level of perma-benching and yet doesn't mandate a severing of the contractual relationship.

Maybe Mix wore black shoes with a gray suit... technically not a crime but black dress shoes are the worst.

 

[adam]

Maybe Mix wore black shoes with a gray suit... technically not a crime but black dress shoes are the worst.

Haha. We're not starting that up again, are we?

 

[Kjbert]

Just give us an example "of the sort" of thing Mix has done that qualify as shithead behavior. I'm just really interested in what rises to the level of perma-benching and yet doesn't mandate a severing of the contractual relationship.

Insubordination.

How do you sever a guaranteed contract? This is sports, not middle America.

 

[Seth]

Insubordination.

How do you sever a guaranteed contract? This is sports, not middle America.

I think why people are getting upset here is because you're making what sound like concrete statements of fact that aren't backed up by any evidence. I totally admit that the Mix situation is completely vexing but as far as I know we have no idea why we're in that situation. He practices with the team all the time, does club events and appearances, and travels with the team on occasion. I'm hoping they're just keeping him "on the shelf" until there's an opening for him (i.e., Pirlo retires, say) as that would be the best scenario. May not actually be that way but it's a possible explanation.

However, you're saying "insubordination," "won't take direction and put in the effort," and "cancer in the locker room." You're going to have to provide some evidence that any of those are even partially true but the problem is you haven't done so. It feels like you're just saying stuff out of thin air. And you could be totally right as those explanations are just as possible as mine but we have no way to tell. If you're going to make such strong and definitive statements you may be asked to back them up somehow.

 

[Kjbert]

I think why people are getting upset here is because you're making what sound like concrete statements of fact that aren't backed up by any evidence. I totally admit that the Mix situation is completely vexing but as far as I know we have no idea why we're in that situation. He practices with the team all the time, does club events and appearances, and travels with the team on occasion. I'm hoping they're just keeping him "on the shelf" until there's an opening for him (i.e., Pirlo retires, say) as that would be the best scenario. May not actually be that way but it's a possible explanation.

However, you're saying "insubordination," "won't take direction and put in the effort," and "cancer in the locker room." You're going to have to provide some evidence that any of those are even partially true but the problem is you haven't done so. It feels like you're just saying stuff out of thin air. And you could be totally right as those explanations are just as possible as mine but we have no way to tell. If you're going to make such strong and definitive statements you may be asked to back them up somehow.

How would you like me to "back them up?"

 

[mgarbowski]

It's pretty clear to me that Kjbert is posting purported inside information from a source that he can't even discuss vaguely. That is, of course, the sort of information that anyone can rationally dismiss and reject. Whether to accept it here seems a function of whether his explanation seems to be a likely fit for the facts, and at this point we're all gonna see what we want to see. To me it passes the more likely than not test, but I wouldn't expect it to be persuasive to anyone who leans the other way.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Insubordination.

How do you sever a guaranteed contract? This is sports, not middle America.

If it's that bad, why don't they just ship off to somewhere or ban him from the facilities? I sure as hell wouldn't pay him to hang out if he's such a shitty team member. Wouldn't be the first time a pro club has paid someone not to show up.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

It's pretty clear to me that Kjbert is posting purported inside information from a source that he can't even discuss vaguely. That is, of course, the sort of information that anyone can rationally dismiss and reject. Whether to accept it here seems a function of whether his explanation seems to be a likely fit for the facts, and at this point we're all gonna see what we want to see. To me it passes the more likely than not test, but I wouldn't expect it to be persuasive to anyone who leans the other way.

To me, it's not about the believability. I have no doubt that someone or multiple people in the organization view/s it that way. But it's about literally wtf went down because I'd like to know what behavior gives rise to this extreme punishment and be able to judge for myself its appropriateness. Not my right to be given it, of course. But it is my right to not be satisfied with conclusory characterizations with no supporting facts in evidence. It's even more odd given that he played for a national team manager who notoriously has thrown players under the bus or kicked them from camp, and we never heard a peep out of there about anything.

And finally, I don't much see how positing it here changes anything. The club has killed any trade value with their handling it. And I'm sure if Kjbert knows, then every FO person, at least in MLS, already knows as well.