2017 Roster Discussion

[Kjbert]

Very good post by Midas Mulligan

Raises a question in my mind. Facey can't play CB long term in England. We found him to be a poor RB.

How many other MCFC kids are there that could play here, but maybe excel by changing positions?

 

[Gotham Gator]

And just to continue my thoughts: there is no reason Facey should have gone back to England. He's not ever playing in the premier league. He could have stayed here and become a fixture in a team that commands a serious wage and notoriety. Plus, he would be seen as a groundbreaker.

Instead, he will bounce about Championship teams if he is lucky because he lacks some of the attributes most key for him succeeding in that league.

I don't know if he was offered an option to stay here, as I don't think he was particularly good (although I think he would have potentially been good for us as a ball-playing CB). But if he were, and he turned it down, then he is delusional as hell about where he is going in English football.

I generally agree with all of this, except that if he can't rate in the Championship, then he can't be a long term starter for us either.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I have a feeling Vieira may be thinking about bringing a couple of players from Manchester City next season. One player I would like to see is Thierry Ambrose, who isn't 20 until March 2017. He has been so unlucky with injuries the last couple of seasons and I believe he needs to play against stronger opposition than reserve team football. He has pace, strength and an eye for goal. He can play up front or from the right and would be a very good addition to the squad.

Thanks for all the intel, William. These are great to ponder.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I generally agree with all of this, except that if he can't rate in the Championship, then he can't be a long term starter for us either.

I don't know about that. My thinking was he has the tool to play out of the back, which is something we value much more highly than most anyone in the Championship. Any team that values that over there is generally one that at least has designs on promotion (such as Newcastle) and therefore would be willing to spend far more to get a CB just as skilled with his feet who also has the build for the position (again, such as Newcastle).

 

[ktdNYCFC]

It's a great point that younger guys who want to end up at a top Euro club should really see NYCFC as a good place to launch their careers:

-We're CFG
-We will probably always have one or two big names attracting the media
-Live in NY / NYC, let alone USA
-Rapidly growing league in a country that does extremely well with sports in general
-Have already seen big moves to top clubs (Miazga)
-Good chance at winning some hardware in the near future

The list goes on and on. I really think there will be a shift soon and we will see some players and agents eyeing MLS (NYC specifically) as a better option than a Tippeligaen/Eredivisie/Allsvenskan/etc. in terms of attracting top European interest. Guys can get lost in those leagues, while anyone on NYC's roster is going to get exposure.

I think that's the next step for MLS - going from retirement league to feeder league (while retaining the retirement league attraction). It's always going to be tough for us to end up as the top flight that Garber wants us to become without Euro/Champions League, but I think he lives in a bubble where the thought is MLS will be such a top flight one day that it will trump Champions League in terms of appeal. Not happening in my lifetime.

 

[sbrylski]

It's a great point that younger guys who want to end up at a top Euro club should really see NYCFC as a good place to launch their careers:

-We're CFG
-We will probably always have one or two big names attracting the media
-Live in NY / NYC, let alone USA
-Rapidly growing league in a country that does extremely well with sports in general
-Have already seen big moves to top clubs (Miazga)
-Good chance at winning some hardware in the near future

The list goes on and on. I really think there will be a shift soon and we will see some players and agents eyeing MLS (NYC specifically) as a better option than a Tippeligaen/Eredivisie/Allsvenskan/etc. in terms of attracting top European interest. Guys can get lost in those leagues, while anyone on NYC's roster is going to get exposure.

I think that's the next step for MLS - going from retirement league to feeder league (while retaining the retirement league attraction). It's always going to be tough for us to end up as the top flight that Garber wants us to become without Euro/Champions League, but I think he lives in a bubble where the thought is MLS will be such a top flight one day that it will trump Champions League in terms of appeal. Not happening in my lifetime.

I wonder how much East Coast v West Coast matters too. New York is more connected to London than it is to most American cities. Los Angeles has a global brand and attraction as well, of course, but outside of that, the Western Conference seems less connected to Europe. I could see City, Metro, Toronto, and Montreal really dominating the EC in the long run as the top options for foreigners (plus LAG and LAFC). Dallas, Houston, Orlando, and California teams should have an advantage in the player development pool.

 

[Kjbert]

I think the ceiling on this league is a place like the Eridivisie where you have excellent young players who are destined for bigger clubs, combined with the old stars that can still hack it. That's my goal. I can't see how you can overtake the Top 5 leagues when soccer isn't the #1 sport here and the Champions League makes soccer there the most attractive.

But give me the best of Netherlands and aging superstars and I'm happy.

 

[sbrylski]

I think the ceiling on this league is a place like the Eridivisie where you have excellent young players who are destined for bigger clubs, combined with the old stars that can still hack it. That's my goal. I can't see how you can overtake the Top 5 leagues when soccer isn't the #1 sport here and the Champions League makes soccer there the most attractive.

But give me the best of Netherlands and aging superstars and I'm happy.

In the foreseeable future, this is a good goal. But a lot can change over 20 years.

In ~2015, we finally have the Big Four + One. NFL ratings trending downward.
In ~1995, there was no soccer, MLB was on strike, and NFL was the ultimate king.
In ~1975, the NFL was only a few years removed from a merger that brought them to maturity and really took over the sports scene.
In ~1955, baseball was king, the Dodgers hadn't left yet.
In ~1935, baseball was king, other professional sports were infants.
In ~1915, baseball, baseball, baseball.

Baseball had it's 3 human generations from ~1900's (maturity) to ~1970's. Football is going on it's third generation from ~1970 to today. Under this extremely rough cut theory pulled straight out of my ass, maybe soccer will get it's turn starting in about 2040 as the king.

 

[Kjbert]

I do believe that American Football is on the way down here. The ratings issues are real and the game is long and boring. Same issue baseball has. Soccer is a 90 minute match. You know what time the game ends. And it's short.

But the UCL is the UCL.

 

[joe]

I do believe that American Football is on the way down here. The ratings issues are real and the game is long and boring. Same issue baseball has. Soccer is a 90 minute match. You know what time the game ends. And it's short.

But the UCL is the UCL.

Soccer ratings are down, too.

 

[sbrylski]

Soccer ratings are down, too.

In Europe? Surely not in the US...

 

[sbrylski]

I do believe that American Football is on the way down here. The ratings issues are real and the game is long and boring. Same issue baseball has. Soccer is a 90 minute match. You know what time the game ends. And it's short.

But the UCL is the UCL.

The UCL will eventually become a closed league, IMO. And then it will be clear that UCL is Europe's MLS equivalent and EPL is the equivalent of a USL Division.

That will also make it clear how much more work we need to do to catch them.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I think you are underestimating how much better the US is to work in than Europe. All it will take is the stars to get younger and mls to correspondingly open the purse strings for the flood of talent to come over here. Ask bedoya about taxes in France. USA has been the cultural trendsetter for the world for a long time - movies, music etc. Wouldn't take much for the soccer stars to want to move over here.

 

[joe]

In Europe? Surely not in the US...

EPL ratings are down this year in both the US and UK.

 

[LionNYC]

taxes

Hmm, if Trump gets his tax breaks through and Garber and owners and the Player's Association agree to open up the salary cap rules...

...imagine for four years (or eight) a flood of talent coming to play in America to get paid. Though, I think 90% of owners won't splurge like we would...

 

[Kjbert]

Tax breaks are great. But the average MLS player is making a salary on par with a League Two team.

At least the U.K. Offers those guys free medical care.

 

[Gotham Gator]

If the sport ever grows here into something that rivals the NFL, or even college football, there won't be anything in Europe that can match the money we can throw at it. Of course, that's a generation away, at best.

Plus, with that much widespread support, we would be producing so many of our own players that we wouldn't have to fill teams with exclusively foreign players to create world class squads.

 

[FootyLovin]

I think you are underestimating how much better the US is to work in than Europe.

This and more. These are interesting geopolitical times. Europe has some messy issues to figure out. So does the US, but we are more insulated. I don't want to turn this into a politics discussion so I'll leave out the details beyond those statements. But suffice it to say that issues beyond the world of soccer could influence the desirability of different leagues.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

This and more. These are interesting geopolitical times. Europe has some messy issues to figure out. So does the US, but we are more insulated. I don't want to turn this into a politics discussion so I'll leave out the details beyond those statements. But suffice it to say that issues beyond the world of soccer could influence the desirability of different leagues.

Political correctness be damned, I do not understand why MLS clubs don't go after more players in Eastern European leagues. There are always clubs there paying late or going bust, and (realizing I'm generalizing) it's often not a very hospitable place to people of minority ethnicity.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Political correctness be damned, I do not understand why MLS clubs don't go after more players in Eastern European leagues. There are always clubs there paying late or going bust, and (realizing I'm generalizing) it's often not a very hospitable place to people of minority ethnicity.

I think alot of it has to do with the lack of a real scouting networks by alot of mls teams.