2018 Salary Cap Discussion

[adam]

Most important players list:
1) David Villa
2) Alexander Ring
3) Sean Johnson
4) Alex Callens
5) Jack Harrison

I would put Chanot on that list, but he's been out a lot. You could put Herrera on that list, but after his injury, we weren't as good with him on the field as we were prior to his injury - something like 9-0-1. I would say Maxi is easily outside of our Top 5 most important players. It's possible he's behind Chanot and Herrera as well.

He's been league average this year at his position. You could replace him with the 10th best CAM in the league and we're equal or better. That's not a knock on him, it's just that the league is very deep at his position.

That's exactly what I was getting at. And we don't need to spend $2mm to get average CAM play.

Yes, he's very important to our offense, but we can get a better player with a similar style of play to fill his role for the same price or less. And if we want to spend more, we can get an excellent player to replace him.

Also, what bad sign does it send by using the once a season cut? He still gets paid all the money due him and he gets to sign somewhere else. As long as players still get paid their money, it makes MLS a much more desirable destination than many other leagues in the world.

 

[413Blue]

I'd guess that we could simply sell Maxi instead of cutting or trading him. Gotta be a market for him somwhere?

 

[mgarbowski]

Also, what bad sign does it send by using the once a season cut? He still gets paid all the money due him and he gets to sign somewhere else. As long as players still get paid their money, it makes MLS a much more desirable destination than many other leagues in the world.

There's no way it isn't a bad look. Everything you say is correct. But if in 3 years we cut 2 players who are exactly who we knew they were when we signed them, it shows we don't know what we're doing, at least for players whose first name consonants are M and X.
But also,coming to America is a big move for a lot of these guys. Not all. but some, like Vila and Maxi, are uprooting kids and everything else. These are important concerns even if secondary to getting paid on a guaranteed contract. Anybody contemplating that type of move wants to know he will probably get to stay here for the entire contract. This would get noticed by potential targets. And the part I put in italics is, I think, key. It's one thing to waive a guy who never performed, or who dropped off. Mix and Maxi came here and are exactly who they were before. I don't think you can repeatedly cut guys like that, especially if they are high profile.

 

[Ulrich]

There's no way it isn't a bad look. Everything you say is correct. But if in 3 years we cut 2 players who are exactly who we knew they were when we signed them, it shows we don't know what we're doing, at least for players whose first name consonants are M and X.
But also,coming to America is a big move for a lot of these guys. Not all. but some, like Vila and Maxi, are uprooting kids and everything else. These are important concerns even if secondary to getting paid on a guaranteed contract. Anybody contemplating that type of move wants to know he will probably get to stay here for the entire contract. This would get noticed by potential targets. And the part I put in italics is, I think, key. It's one thing to waive a guy who never performed, or who dropped off. Mix and Maxi came here and are exactly who they were before. I don't think you can repeatedly cut guys like that, especially if they are high profile.

That’s a brilliant observation regarding the M and X letters and it is uncannily true.

 

[mgarbowski]

That’s a brilliant observation regarding the M and X letters and it is uncannily true.

As long as we don't sign Moxie Mumphrey next, we're good.

 

[NickFromAstoria]

As long as we don't sign Moxie Mumphrey next, we're good.

Sounds like a Gashouse Gang reject. I’ll bet Frankie Frisch never heard of him.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Buying out Maxi is utterly insane. This isnt fantasy football. This is a team leader who is one of the only people on roster that can actually play the sport the way its suppose to be played.

 

[Ulrich]

Buying out Maxi is utterly insane. This isnt fantasy football. This is a team leader who is one of the only people on roster that can actually play the sport the way its suppose to be played.

He also has a super tight playing connection with Villa. It’s really obvious that Villa trusts him wholeheartedly and they work well together.

 

[mgarbowski]

Buying out Maxi is utterly insane. This isnt fantasy football. This is a team leader who is one of the only people on roster that can actually play the sport the way its suppose to be played.

This is not inconsistent with him being a disappointment. Your proposition can just be restated as a generality: a mediocre DP on a team with only 2 functional DPs will usually be — and arguably should be — one of the 2 best players on the team and a leader. He’s making 5 times what all but a handful of others are making.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Maxi is a sort of a mini-Iniesta.

But we need another goalscorer, and that's not him. He's an 8 for a team that dominates.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Maxi is a sort of a mini-Iniesta.

But we need another goalscorer, and that's not him. He's an 8 for a team that dominates.

I am a ok with signing another goal scorer. It boosts Maxi's value and production. Villa is the only consistent threat in front of him.

This is not inconsistent with him being a disappointment. Your proposition can just be restated as a generality: a mediocre DP on a team with only 2 functional DPs will usually be — and arguably should be — one of the 2 best players on the team and a leader. He’s making 5 times what all but a handful of others are making.

Replacing Maxi has nothing to do with fixing the core sickness of our team. If you have Thomas McNamara, Ethan White, Khiry Shelton, Mikey Lopez, RJ Allen, and John Sterzer making nearly 100 appearances for your team, you are going to underachieve.

 

[Kjbert]

I'm ok with signing a dynamite #10 that is killer in the final third and playing Maxi as an 8.

I think we've played best this year when he's played deeper and we've gone 4-4-2 anyway.

 

[mgarbowski]

Replacing Maxi has nothing to do with fixing the core sickness of our team. If you have Thomas McNamara, Ethan White, Khiry Shelton, Mikey Lopez, RJ Allen, and John Sterzer making nearly 100 appearances for your team, you are going to underachieve.

None of those guys start but for international absences, suspensions and injuries.

Stertzer had 53 minutes all year. Is he even worth discussing? Lopez and Shelton averaged 18 and 15 minutes per game. I don't see that you can make this team jump to the MLS Cup favorite by getting better deep bench players like those 3 at an average salary of less than $100k. I'd like to see the list, and the explanation of how they make us jump from second in the league to MLS Cup favorite.

We can probably improve over McNamara and Allen at their prices. But we're still discussing bench guys at 47 and 30 minutes per game.

I will fight hard on White. 21 appearances and 1500+ unspectacular but solid minutes for a guy making $65k. I think you can argue he was among the team's top 5 most valuable players adjusted for cost, because he competently held onto a a semi-starting role at a super discount price which allowed us to spend elsewhere. If you want to replace him I'd love to see your list of superior outside backs making $65k. If you want to spend more than that who do we cut elsewhere on the roster? Sure, Shelton or TMac, but who do we replace them with for the reduced salary amount after we pay White's improved replacement? Having him on the team allowed us to have better players elsewhere. Also, in the last 9 games of the season when we slumped and got only 1.39 PPG, White had only 2 appearances for 120 minutes.

None of which applies to Maxi. He takes up one of 3 unique slots, which this team has never used particularly well apart from Villa. In this thread people have identified multiple players in similar roster slots (DPs and even TAM players) around the league who are better. If you disagree with those assessments I'd be interested in reading that. But your answer is that Maxi is better than John Stertzer and RJ Allen.

The clearest way to improve this team is to upgrade at roster spots 2-4, not 12-21.

 

[Marito]

None of those guys start but for international absences, suspensions and injuries.

Stertzer had 53 minutes all year. Is he even worth discussing? Lopez and Shelton averaged 18 and 15 minutes per game. I don't see that you can make this team jump to the MLS Cup favorite by getting better deep bench players like those 3 at an average salary of less than $100k. I'd like to see the list, and the explanation of how they make us jump from second in the league to MLS Cup favorite.

We can probably improve over McNamara and Allen at their prices. But we're still discussing bench guys at 47 and 30 minutes per game.

I will fight hard on White. 21 appearances and 1500+ unspectacular but solid minutes for a guy making $65k. I think you can argue he was among the team's top 5 most valuable players adjusted for cost, because he competently held onto a a semi-starting role at a super discount price which allowed us to spend elsewhere. If you want to replace him I'd love to see your list of superior outside backs making $65k. If you want to spend more than that who do we cut elsewhere on the roster? Sure, Shelton or TMac, but who do we replace them with for the reduced salary amount after we pay White's improved replacement? Having him on the team allowed us to have better players elsewhere. Also, in the last 9 games of the season when we slumped and got only 1.39 PPG, White had only 2 appearances for 120 minutes.

None of which applies to Maxi. He takes up one of 3 unique slots, which this team has never used particularly well apart from Villa. In this thread people have identified multiple players in similar roster slots (DPs and even TAM players) around the league who are better. If you disagree with those assessments I'd be interested in reading that. But your answer is that Maxi is better than John Stertzer and RJ Allen.

The clearest way to improve this team is to upgrade at roster spots 2-4, not 12-21.

I think there have been distinct frustrations during the year, that have led us to propose varying solutions. When we started the year, even with Pirlo on the pitch, we looked pretty dominant, regardless of results. For example, our debut was a complete domination of ORL at their own pitch that we deserved to win but lost. I was happy and I think many guys here shared that feeling. The first 8 or 10 games in the season were good, and mostly we got results to, and we were promised increasing results because our expected goal average was way higher that whatever many goals we were getting. When Vieira saw the light and picked Yangel as a starter we thought that was IT, we were going to be invincible. At that point Mata had not been out that long, and we didn't realize the implications that not having him would have for our attack. With a small sample we had like a 90% success ratio with Yangel on the pitch and we thought Yangel was the missing piece of the century. Afterwards we went through a period of many many weeks where we couldn't field anything close to our best XI, because of injuries and call ups, and that's when, seeing Allen, Lopez, TMac, Pirlo and Shelton get a lot of minutes, many of us here in the Forum said "our best XI is probably the best in all MLS but we lack quality depth. What will take us over the hump and make us the team to beat in MLS would be to invest in depth". That would seem to indicate we should concentrate in roster spots 12-21. However, when, in the last few weeks, most of our Best XI was finally available we've looked utterly meh. That would suggest we need to invest in roster spots 2-4. Maybe the answer is both, maybe we are farther from the goal than we initially thought?

 

[Ulrich]

I think there have been distinct frustrations during the year, that have led us to propose varying solutions. When we started the year, even with Pirlo on the pitch, we looked pretty dominant, regardless of results. For example, our debut was a complete domination of ORL at their own pitch that we deserved to win but lost. I was happy and I think many guys here shared that feeling. The first 8 or 10 games in the season were good, and mostly we got results to, and we were promised increasing results because our expected goal average was way higher that whatever many goals we were getting. When Vieira saw the light and picked Yangel as a starter we thought that was IT, we were going to be invincible. At that point Mata had not been out that long, and we didn't realize the implications that not having him would have for our attack. With a small sample we had like a 90% success ratio with Yangel on the pitch and we thought Yangel was the missing piece of the century. Afterwards we went through a period of many many weeks where we couldn't field anything close to our best XI, because of injuries and call ups, and that's when, seeing Allen, Lopez, TMac, Pirlo and Shelton get a lot of minutes, many of us here in the Forum said "our best XI is probably the best in all MLS but we lack quality depth. What will take us over the hump and make us the team to beat in MLS would be to invest in depth". That would seem to indicate we should concentrate in roster spots 12-21. However, when, in the last few weeks, most of our Best XI was finally available we've looked utterly meh. That would suggest we need to invest in roster spots 2-4. Maybe the answer is both, maybe we are farther from the goal than we initially thought?

The last game of the season was the first time in a while that PV has employed our typical 433 tactics that didn’t try to invert an outside back or a wing. It’s also the first time we’ve looked close to normal. Our decline was as much due to the injuries/suspensions as it was to PV messing with something that worked; I’d even say it was more on PV because many times he refused to go with a like-for-like replacement in the lineup.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I think there have been distinct frustrations during the year, that have led us to propose varying solutions. When we started the year, even with Pirlo on the pitch, we looked pretty dominant, regardless of results. For example, our debut was a complete domination of ORL at their own pitch that we deserved to win but lost. I was happy and I think many guys here shared that feeling. The first 8 or 10 games in the season were good, and mostly we got results to, and we were promised increasing results because our expected goal average was way higher that whatever many goals we were getting. When Vieira saw the light and picked Yangel as a starter we thought that was IT, we were going to be invincible. At that point Mata had not been out that long, and we didn't realize the implications that not having him would have for our attack. With a small sample we had like a 90% success ratio with Yangel on the pitch and we thought Yangel was the missing piece of the century. Afterwards we went through a period of many many weeks where we couldn't field anything close to our best XI, because of injuries and call ups, and that's when, seeing Allen, Lopez, TMac, Pirlo and Shelton get a lot of minutes, many of us here in the Forum said "our best XI is probably the best in all MLS but we lack quality depth. What will take us over the hump and make us the team to beat in MLS would be to invest in depth". That would seem to indicate we should concentrate in roster spots 12-21. However, when, in the last few weeks, most of our Best XI was finally available we've looked utterly meh. That would suggest we need to invest in roster spots 2-4. Maybe the answer is both, maybe we are farther from the goal than we initially thought?

I 100% agree. When we have our best 11 clicking, we are MLS Cup contenders. But so are 6-7 other clubs.

We need a bigger margin of error, both with our best and without, if we want to be true favorites.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

None of those guys start but for international absences, suspensions and injuries.

Stertzer had 53 minutes all year. Is he even worth discussing? Lopez and Shelton averaged 18 and 15 minutes per game. I don't see that you can make this team jump to the MLS Cup favorite by getting better deep bench players like those 3 at an average salary of less than $100k. I'd like to see the list, and the explanation of how they make us jump from second in the league to MLS Cup favorite.

We can probably improve over McNamara and Allen at their prices. But we're still discussing bench guys at 47 and 30 minutes per game.

I will fight hard on White. 21 appearances and 1500+ unspectacular but solid minutes for a guy making $65k. I think you can argue he was among the team's top 5 most valuable players adjusted for cost, because he competently held onto a a semi-starting role at a super discount price which allowed us to spend elsewhere. If you want to replace him I'd love to see your list of superior outside backs making $65k. If you want to spend more than that who do we cut elsewhere on the roster? Sure, Shelton or TMac, but who do we replace them with for the reduced salary amount after we pay White's improved replacement? Having him on the team allowed us to have better players elsewhere. Also, in the last 9 games of the season when we slumped and got only 1.39 PPG, White had only 2 appearances for 120 minutes.

None of which applies to Maxi. He takes up one of 3 unique slots, which this team has never used particularly well apart from Villa. In this thread people have identified multiple players in similar roster slots (DPs and even TAM players) around the league who are better. If you disagree with those assessments I'd be interested in reading that. But your answer is that Maxi is better than John Stertzer and RJ Allen.

The clearest way to improve this team is to upgrade at roster spots 2-4, not 12-21.

Stertzer is worth discussing. He is the only NYCFC player in our short history that has gotten subbed into then subbed out of a game. The dude needs to go away right the hell now.

Shelton, is the kind of player a GM needs to trade out for the coach's own good.

RJ Allen I'm kinda torn with. Yes he's expensive, but we're getting so much TAM next year that he might be worth keeping around as deep depth. But that's just me being sentimental on someone who was here for round one. The smart move is probably to sell him.

But again we get to the larger overall point you alluded to. Once you get past the XI in MLS you're going to need to pay guys like 100k a year or less. You need people who can suck on a small salary, but not suck too much. Khiry for all his faults is at least a non entity when he gets on the field, if you compare that to some of the other dumpster fire's in the league who occupy his salary position on a roster, he isn't that bad. I just personally think PV is more enamored with Khiry's physicality than is probably healthy, but thats a secondary issue.

 

[Angela Miller]

Stertzer is worth discussing

WELL NOW ! Just would you like to talk about our Candy Boy Mr Lieb?? If they want to keep the poster sales going for the under 20 girls who squeal in the seats when they see his man bun they better keep his ass !!!

 

[Angela Miller]

Stertzer had 53 minutes all year.

Our Candy Boy's had much more action than that !!! It just wasn't on The Pitch !! Trust Me People !!!

 

[LionNYC]

WELL NOW ! Just would you like to talk about our Candy Boy Mr Lieb?? If they want to keep the poster sales going for the under 20 girls who squeal in the seats when they see his man bun they better keep his ass !!!

Our Candy Boy's had much more action than that !!! It just wasn't on The Pitch !! Trust Me People !!!