2018 Salary Cap Discussion

[Midas Mulligan]

Stertzer is worth discussing. He is the only NYCFC player in our short history that has gotten subbed into then subbed out of a game. The dude needs to go away right the hell now.

Shelton, is the kind of player a GM needs to trade out for the coach's own good.

RJ Allen I'm kinda torn with. Yes he's expensive, but we're getting so much TAM next year that he might be worth keeping around as deep depth. But that's just me being sentimental on someone who was here for round one. The smart move is probably to sell him.

But again we get to the larger overall point you alluded to. Once you get past the XI in MLS you're going to need to pay guys like 100k a year or less. You need people who can suck on a small salary, but not suck too much. Khiry for all his faults is at least a non entity when he gets on the field, if you compare that to some of the other dumpster fire's in the league who occupy his salary position on a roster, he isn't that bad. I just personally think PV is more enamored with Khiry's physicality than is probably healthy, but thats a secondary issue.

I think you are understating just how incompetent Khiry is. Does Brooks Lennon make Khiry money? He's at least competent.

(He makes 53k, looked it up.)

 

[mgarbowski]

Stertzer is worth discussing. He is the only NYCFC player in our short history that has gotten subbed into then subbed out of a game. The dude needs to go away right the hell now.

Well my favorite Stertzer moment is really a PV moment, from the SKC and Portland games. Against SKC we're tied 0-0 and PV puts Stertzer in at the 83rd minute and we immediately score the winner for completely unrelated reasons.
Three days later we're chasing Portland all game down 0-1 and coach again puts in Stertzer at minute 83 and of course nothing happens and we lose. I just imagine Vieira saying "What do you want, I gave it a shot."

 

[Ulrich]

Well my favorite Stertzer moment is really a PV moment, from the SKC and Portland games. Against SKC we're tied 0-0 and PV puts Stertzer in at the 83rd minute and we immediately score the winner for completely unrelated reasons.
Three days later we're chasing Portland all game down 0-1 and coach again puts in Stertzer at minute 83 and of course nothing happens and we lose. I just imagine Vieira saying "What do you want, I gave it a shot."

Stertzer really just needs to play as a poacher with no other responsibilities- not that a role like that is possible given all 11 need to contribute continuously. During the preseason, he was adept at getting into the box to score, but I’m not sure if that was a result of poor opponents, timely runs, or the defense actively ignoring him during the buildup. He’s cap friendly, and maybe effective as opposition during practice, but he’d probably get more career satisfaction dropping down to the USL where playing time is more readily available.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I think there have been distinct frustrations during the year, that have led us to propose varying solutions. When we started the year, even with Pirlo on the pitch, we looked pretty dominant, regardless of results. For example, our debut was a complete domination of ORL at their own pitch that we deserved to win but lost. I was happy and I think many guys here shared that feeling. The first 8 or 10 games in the season were good, and mostly we got results to, and we were promised increasing results because our expected goal average was way higher that whatever many goals we were getting. When Vieira saw the light and picked Yangel as a starter we thought that was IT, we were going to be invincible. At that point Mata had not been out that long, and we didn't realize the implications that not having him would have for our attack. With a small sample we had like a 90% success ratio with Yangel on the pitch and we thought Yangel was the missing piece of the century. Afterwards we went through a period of many many weeks where we couldn't field anything close to our best XI, because of injuries and call ups, and that's when, seeing Allen, Lopez, TMac, Pirlo and Shelton get a lot of minutes, many of us here in the Forum said "our best XI is probably the best in all MLS but we lack quality depth. What will take us over the hump and make us the team to beat in MLS would be to invest in depth". That would seem to indicate we should concentrate in roster spots 12-21. However, when, in the last few weeks, most of our Best XI was finally available we've looked utterly meh. That would suggest we need to invest in roster spots 2-4. Maybe the answer is both, maybe we are farther from the goal than we initially thought?

I think the answer is a little of both. We obviously need a 3rd DP, but we shouldn't be surprised that after depending on the a core group of players for high numbers of minutes for the entire season that they got injured and regressed because they weren't rested. A better group behind our starting XI allows them to rest more and do better down the stretch.

Look at Columbus' playoff game. They were able to sub in two high energy wings that really almost won the game for Columbus in regular time, a holding midfielder to save a potential suspension, and a last minute forward PK specialist. All we can do is sub in Jon Lewis and we don't even do that.

 

[Ulrich]

I think the answer is a little of both. We obviously need a 3rd DP, but we shouldn't be surprised that after depending on the a core group of players for high numbers of minutes for the entire season that they got injured and regressed because they weren't rested. A better group behind our starting XI allows them to rest more and do better down the stretch.

Look at Columbus' playoff game. They were able to sub in two high energy wings that really almost won the game for Columbus in regular time, a holding midfielder to save a potential suspension, and a last minute forward PK specialist. All we can do is sub in Jon Lewis and we don't even do that.

I’d like to see Okoli make the bench again. We need every available forward option with goals being so crucial. If we’re down and Lopez is the last sub, there’s gonna be a collective freak out by the fans.

 

[mgarbowski]

I think the answer is a little of both. We obviously need a 3rd DP, but we shouldn't be surprised that after depending on the a core group of players for high numbers of minutes for the entire season that they got injured and regressed because they weren't rested. A better group behind our starting XI allows them to rest more and do better down the stretch.

Look at Columbus' playoff game. They were able to sub in two high energy wings that really almost won the game for Columbus in regular time, a holding midfielder to save a potential suspension, and a last minute forward PK specialist. All we can do is sub in Jon Lewis and we don't even do that.

I'll agree with you here, except I think you downplay the third DP issue.

If Pirlo were a competent DP-level starting forward or mid, then one of either Wallace, Herrera, Ring or Harrison is a bench player we could sub in. Probably Wallace depending on exactly who the DP is.

On top of that, not using Lewis is a selection issue more than roster, IMO.

Next, we're missing Camargo. The only non-defender injured for Columbus is a 20 year old kid who played 1 game his entire career.

Accounting for 1. Pirlo, 2. under use of Lewis, and 3. injury to Camargo, our bench options compare much more reasonably to Columbus. TMac and Shelton should be far deeper options, used less and paid less. I hope Shelton is replaced in the off-season. As others noted, we probably will keep Tmac around for reasons other than playing time skill, unless he asks to be dealt so he can play more somewhere else.

 

[Ulrich]

I'll agree with you here, except I think you downplay the third DP issue.

If Pirlo were a competent DP-level starting forward or mid, then one of either Wallace, Herrera, Ring or Harrison is a bench player we could sub in. Probably Wallace depending on exactly who the DP is.

On top of that, not using Lewis is a selection issue more than roster, IMO.

Next, we're missing Camargo. The only non-defender injured for Columbus is a 20 year old kid who played 1 game his entire career.

Accounting for 1. Pirlo, 2. under use of Lewis, and 3. injury to Camargo, our bench options compare much more reasonably to Columbus. TMac and Shelton should be far deeper options, used less and paid less. I hope Shelton is replaced in the off-season. As others noted, we probably will keep Tmac around for reasons other than playing time skill, unless he asks to be dealt so he can play more somewhere else.

It’s pretty crazy that Camargo did so well on International duty that PV said he was gonna get more minutes only to have Camargo fall victim to the NT injury bug. One can only wonder how much better the club would have done if so many players didn’t get injured on NT duty ....

 

[EganSoccerWords]

I'll agree with you here, except I think you downplay the third DP issue.

If Pirlo were a competent DP-level starting forward or mid, then one of either Wallace, Herrera, Ring or Harrison is a bench player we could sub in. Probably Wallace depending on exactly who the DP is.

On top of that, not using Lewis is a selection issue more than roster, IMO.

Next, we're missing Camargo. The only non-defender injured for Columbus is a 20 year old kid who played 1 game his entire career.

Accounting for 1. Pirlo, 2. under use of Lewis, and 3. injury to Camargo, our bench options compare much more reasonably to Columbus. TMac and Shelton should be far deeper options, used less and paid less. I hope Shelton is replaced in the off-season. As others noted, we probably will keep Tmac around for reasons other than playing time skill, unless he asks to be dealt so he can play more somewhere else.

I literally said we obviously need a 3rd DP and you are going to take that as downplaying?

There should also be a contingency for losing one bench player for the season.

 

[mgarbowski]

I literally said we obviously need a 3rd DP and you are going to take that as downplaying?

As a first clause of a sentence, followed immediately by ", but." That downplaying. It's basic rhetoric. You have to mention something to downplay it. If you don't mention it that's called ignoring it.
Which brings up...

There should also be a contingency for losing one bench player for the season.

There should, but we're in a capped league.* And it should not be ignored in a comparison of our subs to a team that doesn't have a similar injury. So I brought it up.

* See, downplaying.

In truth, I think you and agree on most points but want to emphasize them differently.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

As for me, I just want to emphasize that I think our apparent first sub sucks.