You don’t live in NYC or NYS, do you? For Amazon to receive the equivalent of $50k+ per employee is unnecessary.
2019 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter LionNYC
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Is that in direct cash payments or discounts off of new tax revenue created by a firm which choose to invest billions into a very expensive location?
Amazon could have built in business friendly states, but choose to invest in a heavily taxed, high cost state.
Whether it was a good deal or not, I don't know or care. I just hate the argument of "billionaires rah rah".
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I don't wanna speak for
Ulrich but to me this isn't about whether the beneficiaries of the deal are billionaires or not. It's about comparing the net effect on the constituents where Amazon are offered the breaks / subsidies (including the scenario where Amazon chooses to go elsewhere) vs when they are.Most of what I've read implies that tax breaks and subsidies perform poorly as economic stimulus (e.g. https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/amazon-hq2-losers-are-winners, from Mercatus, not a lefty organization). Not all studies on the stimulating effects of breaks and subsidies are particular to LIC or Amazon or the spending habits of those concerned, but I think there's decent reason to believe this is going to result in net worse outcomes for constituents.
I'm open to other arguments or evidence, though. And I agree that making this about billionaires is divisive and distracting.
NYC is trying to become the tech incubator of the East. Regardless of the dollars made or lost in this specific deal, getting Amazon in the city helps aid this especially considering Amazon's current upward trajectory. I just don't know if that preception that can be measured in dollars and cents.
My perception is that NYC is already the tech incubator of the east. Not that the tech industry can't grow here. One can probably assign a value to any incremental effect on that perception, as a result of this deal.
I think if you are attuned to NYC, this is true. I don't think this is a nationwide or global perception quite yet.
Or, we got ourselves the richest dick swinging competition for a regional broadcast network that airs baseball games and some other sports.
Do you think if CFG buys YES, they promote the hell out of us and bump the Yankees?
Interestingly, the study I linked to above doesn't take into account the benefit of Amazon money flowing into NYC. It's more making the point that subsidies don't sway the decision and that the "Amazon walks away from the table" scenario is only a possibility because there is no solidarity between Amazon's suitors. The only way to ensure that solidarity would require systemic change though. Indeed, Amazon also has the imperative to take advantage of these kinds of bidding wars because it gives an advantage to its competitors if it doesn't.I don't wanna speak for
Most of what I've read implies that tax breaks and subsidies perform poorly as economic stimulus (e.g. https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/amazon-hq2-losers-are-winners, from Mercatus, not a lefty organization). Not all studies on the stimulating effects of breaks and subsidies are particular to LIC or Amazon or the spending habits of those concerned, but I think there's decent reason to believe this is going to result in net worse outcomes for constituents.
I'm open to other arguments or evidence, though. And I agree that making this about billionaires is divisive and distracting.
tl;dr - another reason that blaming Amazon or billionaires is misdirected energy that could be better directed towards systemic change.
Are their dicks really that large, or will it just be 2 really rich guys measuring them up?
Idk about bumping. But for fucks sake, play our matches instead of the postgame show!!
The Yankees have a call option on YES Network that triggers if it is every sold. Basically it means they have the right of first refusal at a "fair market value".
Amazon's bid was essentially for the other regional Fox sports networks as the Yankees are lining up the cash to buy the 80% balance of YES they don't already own.
Amazon's bid was essentially for the other regional Fox sports networks as the Yankees are lining up the cash to buy the 80% balance of YES they don't already own.
So, what's Abu Dhabi going to splash on YES so the Yankees won't buy the "fair market value" of Abu Dhabi's indicated bid?
Probably not much. It would make more sense to just buy out of or wait till NYCFCs contract with YES expires. Strike a new deal with MSG/Fox/start their own CFG network...
How long will Yankees still be a minority owner of NYCFC? I don't see CFG buying back the Yankees stake in NYCFC (MLS) even after NYCFC builds their own stadium. Yankees will still be a partner to help expand the brand across the market in New York, right? Knowledge sharing? (Or does Yankees think of NYCFC as competition in the sports market)? CFG uses the 80/20 split in ownership. I can't foresee NYCFC not being on YES Network.
The CFG-Yankees ties will remain for a long time.
They wouldn’t be able to manipulate it that way — a third party (likely an investment bank or panel of them) would be hired to independently assess fair market value.
The Yankees won’t necessarily be going it alone. They’d probably lead a syndicate of minority’s investors, which certainly could include Abu Dhabi.
Both Boston and Atlanta are bigger tech capitals on the east at the moment. NYC has Google and some other companies, but Atlanta and Boston both have the HQ1's of most tech companies instead of HQ2's.
I've actually been of the belief now for a while that once we are out of YS, that the Yankees will look to sell their stake. (This is strictly a gut feeling and I have no knowledge one way or another on the subject) Just looking at everything, I feel the Yankees would get more value in let's say 5-10 years (assuming this is when we get our stadium), than if they were to hold onto it.
The team was purchased at $100,000,000. Assuming they paid 20% of that for their part, they paid $20,000,000.
In contrast, Cincy FC is paying $150,000,000 and if we were to go off of that evaluation for current selling prices, that would make the Yankees share around $30,000,000 for NYCFC, at the evaluation.
Now if we did a true market value of the team at Forbes new list of $278,000,000 and match the Yankees 20%, it would be worth $55,600,000. (This is typically how teams values are calculated for sale so for arguments sake, using this example here.)
Now going forward with this, again with absolutely no knowledge of how the structure of their partnership works, I'd have to think the Yankees get most of the in stadium revenue (food, in stadium merch sales, etc.) where CFG get the league revenue shares, player sales revenue, etc. Now does YS make enough during the seasons to equal the amount they paid after accounting for staff, extra product being brought in (beer, food, etc.) and general operating costs? Probably not.
I'd have to think once NYCFC move out of YS and the Yankees lose that revenue from game day, they'd look to sell, unless CFG pulled a move with them and are going to have YS operate our new stadium and take the revenue like they are (again, complete speculation here) already doing. And the valuation will only increase as the league gets bigger, where in stadium revenue will stagnate over a period of time. Will be interesting to see where they go with it.
A Municipality like NYC does not, and should not, be giving tax breaks to a company that can afford them. If Amazon wants to go somewhere else, let them - I frankly would have preferred to see them go to a city that could use an infusion of construction jobs (NYC doesn't need them as the city is already flush with work that drives prices up) and an influx of 25K employees could help, like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Philadelphia, etc.
NYC doesn't need Amazon, but Amazon appears to want NYC for the proximity to other business HQs, corporate talent, city amenities, etc. For that, NYC shouldn't have been begging them to come. The city also doesn't need an instant influx of 25K high priced workers coming in and flipping the real estate market on it's head, creating more intense competition for an already over-stressed school system, and over-burdening the transit system when it can barely handle the current levels of ridership.
NYC as a tech center would not lose any ground if Amazon didn't come. Cornell and NYU are massive investors in the market from an education level with new campuses devoted to the industry, there are many IT corporate HQs here already, and there are many areas of the city already slated as tech incubator areas: Brooklyn Navy Yard, Brooklyn Army Terminal, the area just above Dumbo in the multiple old JW buildings, etc. Those are just a few. The billions Amazon would be investing is also a misnomer since NYS was going to foot the bill, whether directly or via tax breaks, for the difference required to have union labor. Once construction is finished, corporate HQ's don't continue to "invest," so it'd be short-lived.
Instead of the Amazon subsidy, New York state could reduce the Corporate tax rate for all companies by 1.4%.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/417654-amazon-subsidies-defy-left-right-political-thinking
Drop all special deals, with similar tax reductions and we have the same revenue but a fair system for all, less corruption and become competitive with Texas and Florida on taxes.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/417654-amazon-subsidies-defy-left-right-political-thinking
Drop all special deals, with similar tax reductions and we have the same revenue but a fair system for all, less corruption and become competitive with Texas and Florida on taxes.
Same revenue as we would have from those who are getting special deals, but less from those who aren't. Unless I'm misunderstanding. We'd hope to make up for that lost revenue from new taxpayers tho.
“There’s no photo op in that!” - Governor Cuomo
