2023 Roster and Transfer Discussion Thread
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so you're saying because they were competitive for 7 years with a championship, they can take off a season and not even try to do what any team should do in the off season and fans don't have a right to be upset?
were you not the same person who was crying "dereliction of duty" the other day?
2026. The year before the stadium. NYCFC is in the third tier of MLS spenders and hasn’t made the playoffs since 2022. But hey everyone, it’s the five anniversary of the MLS Cup winning season and that stadium is happening next year. Yeah goes the 12,000 mild crowd for opening day.
I don't buy that they took off this off-season. I buy that their pursuits failed. Sometimes the price is just too high. Maybe their plans didn't go deep enough into the alphabet (plan b, plan c, etc). But I don't think they took the off-season off. I think they went after players they didn't get.
In a salary capped league sometimes walking away from deals (or letting yourself be outbid) is good business.
In a salary capped league sometimes walking away from deals (or letting yourself be outbid) is good business.
I think there is ample evidence at this point that the 35+ Euro player, the 30-35 Euro player and the under 30 Euro player can all be successful strategies. Basing all of our future decisions on whether or not our expansion year worked with Vilamplo is a bit myopic.
Of course it makes sense to wait until the window ends to form conclusions.
But NYCFC has had a net outflow of scoring talent 3 windows in a row: winter 2022, summer 2022 and winter 2023. Selling Pereira in a window where every reasonable expectation was that this would change is going to get fans understandably upset. We are more than halfway through this window and at best it is net even, and still in major deficit over 3.5 windows.
This is just attacking players. No CBs, even though Callens became something of a scorer by the end and we're almost certainly downgraded at both fullback positions without Gudi and Tinnerholm. All G+A/90 figures based on player's NYCFC career (except Bakrar):
Outgoing:
Medina 0.44
Shradi 0.64
Taty 0.76
Heber 0.73
Maxi 0.52
Thiago 0.47
Pereira 0.59
Total 4.15
Incoming:
Pereira 0.59
Pellegrini 0.17
Ledezma 0.37
Segal 0.43
Bakrar 0.53
Total 2.09
Of course this does not account for minutes played, etc., but over 3.5 windows that's a ridiculous imbalance. The best incoming is gone. The next best has yet to show in MLS, and the third best is likely to have his de minimis playing time reduced further.
While I can't rule it out, I don't expect the team will just chill at the bottom of the table until 2027. What I fear more is a continued all-in commitment to chasing young, raw, unproven talent who might excel, or not, and the ones who do, leave. Every roster acquisition cannot be like pulling a slot machine, and then when you win, you have to disgorge your prize a year later. You need a reliable long term ace in the hole. But now it's even worse. The Qatar and Saudi leagues have changed the transfer game so it's even harder to retain young talent who you develop.
Gaby just left midseason because he was offered a giant payday in his second season with NYCFC with 6 goals after 24 games. In 2019, Taty's second season at NYCFC, he had 5 goals after 18 games midway through the summer transfer window. Saudi and Qatar weren't active in 2018 the way they are today. If they were, and they offered, there is a good chance NYCFC has no MLS Cup in 2021, and Taty is thought of as a guy it was nice to have for 1.5 years but never really made his mark here.
There is no point signing an unproven 18-21 year old, developing him, and then losing him midseason his second year. Gaby was a 0.23 G+A/90 at Corinthians, and left NYCFC at 0.59. I support his ability to go get paid, but from an NYCFC POV, his career was a waste. The team accomplished nothing for itself by having him such a brief period.
Selling teams in Europe are non-competitive in winning their league. They sell to stay in business and to stay safely mid-table, and sometimes even that does not work. They routinely sell players who could take them to the top because it is the only way they know not to fall off the treadmill. MLS should not follow that model, even as they become selling teams. MLS teams should be able to keep players long enough, like Taty, to have 4-5 years of value and production. You won't always win a Cup, but you can give yourself a reasonable shot. You need some guys in their prime who can score.
The ages of the top 3 goal scorers on the Union are 23, 27, 28. Cincinnati 29, 28, 30. St. Louis 22, 26, 26. Revs 30, 30, 33. LAFC 28, 34, 20, and they just added 27 year old Mario Gonzalez who in 2 season in top division Portugal has 0.67 GA/90. RSL's top scorers are aged 26, 27, 26, and they just added 28 year old Arango. These are not old guys. They are in their prime.
Gonzalez was out of contract and therefore required no fee and no negotiations with his team. LAFC just had to make him an offer and he accepted. Meanwhile NYCFC makes offers at $7.5M for 19 year olds to teams who want $15M and wonders why it can't close a deal.
Counting Gaby, NYCFC's top scorers were 21, 23, 21. Bakrar is 21. I do not see a viable plan to keep them here through their mid-20s or later, unless they don't even become very good. When your entire model is buy, develop, and sell players so they hit their prime in another league, with the goal that you can more easily sign additional young undeveloped players, it's hard to compete with the teams who actually have guys in their prime.
But NYCFC has had a net outflow of scoring talent 3 windows in a row: winter 2022, summer 2022 and winter 2023. Selling Pereira in a window where every reasonable expectation was that this would change is going to get fans understandably upset. We are more than halfway through this window and at best it is net even, and still in major deficit over 3.5 windows.
This is just attacking players. No CBs, even though Callens became something of a scorer by the end and we're almost certainly downgraded at both fullback positions without Gudi and Tinnerholm. All G+A/90 figures based on player's NYCFC career (except Bakrar):
Outgoing:
Medina 0.44
Shradi 0.64
Taty 0.76
Heber 0.73
Maxi 0.52
Thiago 0.47
Pereira 0.59
Total 4.15
Incoming:
Pereira 0.59
Pellegrini 0.17
Ledezma 0.37
Segal 0.43
Bakrar 0.53
Total 2.09
Of course this does not account for minutes played, etc., but over 3.5 windows that's a ridiculous imbalance. The best incoming is gone. The next best has yet to show in MLS, and the third best is likely to have his de minimis playing time reduced further.
While I can't rule it out, I don't expect the team will just chill at the bottom of the table until 2027. What I fear more is a continued all-in commitment to chasing young, raw, unproven talent who might excel, or not, and the ones who do, leave. Every roster acquisition cannot be like pulling a slot machine, and then when you win, you have to disgorge your prize a year later. You need a reliable long term ace in the hole. But now it's even worse. The Qatar and Saudi leagues have changed the transfer game so it's even harder to retain young talent who you develop.
Gaby just left midseason because he was offered a giant payday in his second season with NYCFC with 6 goals after 24 games. In 2019, Taty's second season at NYCFC, he had 5 goals after 18 games midway through the summer transfer window. Saudi and Qatar weren't active in 2018 the way they are today. If they were, and they offered, there is a good chance NYCFC has no MLS Cup in 2021, and Taty is thought of as a guy it was nice to have for 1.5 years but never really made his mark here.
There is no point signing an unproven 18-21 year old, developing him, and then losing him midseason his second year. Gaby was a 0.23 G+A/90 at Corinthians, and left NYCFC at 0.59. I support his ability to go get paid, but from an NYCFC POV, his career was a waste. The team accomplished nothing for itself by having him such a brief period.
Selling teams in Europe are non-competitive in winning their league. They sell to stay in business and to stay safely mid-table, and sometimes even that does not work. They routinely sell players who could take them to the top because it is the only way they know not to fall off the treadmill. MLS should not follow that model, even as they become selling teams. MLS teams should be able to keep players long enough, like Taty, to have 4-5 years of value and production. You won't always win a Cup, but you can give yourself a reasonable shot. You need some guys in their prime who can score.
The ages of the top 3 goal scorers on the Union are 23, 27, 28. Cincinnati 29, 28, 30. St. Louis 22, 26, 26. Revs 30, 30, 33. LAFC 28, 34, 20, and they just added 27 year old Mario Gonzalez who in 2 season in top division Portugal has 0.67 GA/90. RSL's top scorers are aged 26, 27, 26, and they just added 28 year old Arango. These are not old guys. They are in their prime.
Gonzalez was out of contract and therefore required no fee and no negotiations with his team. LAFC just had to make him an offer and he accepted. Meanwhile NYCFC makes offers at $7.5M for 19 year olds to teams who want $15M and wonders why it can't close a deal.
Counting Gaby, NYCFC's top scorers were 21, 23, 21. Bakrar is 21. I do not see a viable plan to keep them here through their mid-20s or later, unless they don't even become very good. When your entire model is buy, develop, and sell players so they hit their prime in another league, with the goal that you can more easily sign additional young undeveloped players, it's hard to compete with the teams who actually have guys in their prime.
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I think their are some successful hybrid selling teams like Ajax who constantly win / compete despite being a conveyor belt of young talent but they do also make sure they have a few veterans in the mix with the kiddos . There’s where I think we’ve lost the plot . I think at least one of our dp spots should be used on a villa type that cfg connections and being in New York could still surely attract . Someone who could be a difference maker on the field as well as a leader and mentor to the young kids .
yea. i don't think they took off this season. i think they gambled on the roster they had and thought they could get, for many reasons that we can only speculate, and they lost. the only thing they should have definitely planned for and made happen was get a #9 much much sooner. I don't blame them for trading heber and if thiago was a problem or he really wanted to go, fine. but they needed a replacement #9 whether they were trying to make talles that guy or not. we needed a solid backup regardless and what we got was a II squad level player.
According to
EganSoccerWords on redddit, the GP sale nets $0 in GAM because the $5M fee NYCFC paid for him was too much under some U22 sliding scale rule. The only way I see it helping potentially the team improve is if they use the profit to offset a likely loss selling Talles and sign a new DP.
EganSoccerWords on redddit, the GP sale nets $0 in GAM because the $5M fee NYCFC paid for him was too much under some U22 sliding scale rule. The only way I see it helping potentially the team improve is if they use the profit to offset a likely loss selling Talles and sign a new DP.
If this organization thinks it can coast until there is a new stadium, they only need to look to Harrison and see how an in different fan base can look like. Until there are shovels in the ground, this organization better not rely on the goodwill of a stadium.
I don’t even understand how they “coast” or “save” until the stadium. It’s not like that money just stays in an account and we can spend later. Sign people now, the stadium is 3 years away at least. The people we sign know may not even be here then. Plenty of time to build at stadium open, c’mon.
I don’t think Harrison is a good comparison - indifference took a lot of work over a number of years.
If I remember correctly they also coasted til the stadium and there was incentive to stay a STH because selection order was based on seniority.
If I were the owners - I’d want to be in position to sign some big players for the inaugural season. The new stadium really will be a reset.
If I remember correctly they also coasted til the stadium and there was incentive to stay a STH because selection order was based on seniority.
If I were the owners - I’d want to be in position to sign some big players for the inaugural season. The new stadium really will be a reset.
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I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt until the window closes based on the DL quote below that was in the Gabby announcement
We plan to use the roster flexibility that Gabi’s departure gives us to continue our activity in the summer transfer window and bolster our current squad to help us finish the season strongly as we head towards the playoffs.”
We plan to use the roster flexibility that Gabi’s departure gives us to continue our activity in the summer transfer window and bolster our current squad to help us finish the season strongly as we head towards the playoffs.”
First clues were Twitter hints from fan/media accounts about 3 days before it happened.
Unfortunately the approach likely cost us the playoffs which would be a huge miss and a bitter pill for the fan base. It was unnecessary as it was clear to us even before the season started, and it was clear to the coach, and even to some of the players that we were starting the season short handed and in the need of serious roster improvements. I agree that the rest of the window and the off season will truly tell the story of how committed we are to building a winning roster. But this season could have been avoided with some care and attention.
This already got rejected btw. Don’t understand how we go in for $7.5m for this guy but couldn’t cough up another 800k to meet the $6m valuation for Frigan?
Alejo Véliz - Player profile 23/24
Alejo Véliz, 20, from Argentina ➤ Sevilla FC, since 2023 ➤ Centre-Forward ➤ Market value: €11.00m ➤ * Sep 19, 2003 in Gödeken, Argentinawww.transfermarkt.us
No idea on the quality of the source.
Also what the hell was the point for bidding half the amount this club valued the player at? It’s like showing up to an open house for a place worth a million and telling them you’ll buy it for 500k. Can’t imagine how quick/waste of time this conversation probably was
Are you kidding me? Claudio had no Academy, had to start a team from scratch with 0 players and and had his best coach leave mid season on him.
David Lee walked into a COMPLETE team and turned it into a loser.
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