Ballouchy Retires

[canchon]

Keep in mind the expansion draft is not just picking up players, but picking up players for the right price. A guy who is cheap with upside is more valuable than a higher-paid MLS veteran.

For example, you protect guys like Taylor and Mikey Lopez because they are quite cheap and can play sub roles. A guy like Jason Hernandez is over $200k and is not going to be a starter. That eats up a lot of cap. Mena also is expensive, a team would have to like him a lot to commit to that salary and pick him up. Shannon Gomez also might be protected as well.

I would think that you also don't protect Saunders and see if someone wants to pick him up for the veteran "leadership".
I see both him and Jason Hernandez two guys that would not be protected and could be taken by an expansion team looking for MLS "grit."

NYCFC has high(er) paid international guys taking up a lot of starting positions - which means those guys need to be 1) solid starters and 2) you need to have cheap bench depth behind them.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I'll fall off my chair if either team picks one of our players. We were an expansion team 2 years ago, they will be picking from teams that have a lot more depth than we do.

 

[Ulrich]

Keep in mind the expansion draft is not just picking up players, but picking up players for the right price. A guy who is cheap with upside is more valuable than a higher-paid MLS veteran.

For example, you protect guys like Taylor and Mikey Lopez because they are quite cheap and can play sub roles. A guy like Jason Hernandez is over $200k and is not going to be a starter. That eats up a lot of cap. Mena also is expensive, a team would have to like him a lot to commit to that salary and pick him up. Shannon Gomez also might be protected as well.

I would think that you also don't protect Saunders and see if someone wants to pick him up for the veteran "leadership".
I see both him and Jason Hernandez two guys that would not be protected and could be taken by an expansion team looking for MLS "grit."

NYCFC has high(er) paid international guys taking up a lot of starting positions - which means those guys need to be 1) solid starters and 2) you need to have cheap bench depth behind them.

Players chosen can have their contracts reworked. I don't know the logistics of it and how it plays out.

But here's an example of why a player may want to renegotiate..... If Hernandez has a year left on his contract here @ $200K and an expansion team offers him a 3year deal @ $125K (I'm making all of this up), then he may take the pay cut to ensure extra years and an overall higher payout (plus health insurance and whatever other perks are included).

 

[Ulrich]

I'll fall off my chair if either team picks one of our players. We were an expansion team 2 years ago, they will be picking from teams that have a lot more depth than we do.

Maybe, maybe not. The original Metro club was a complete disaster every year, and yet every year of expansion that club got gashed by the expansion draft. It was quite comical - the team could never get any rhythm nor compile a positive record, and yet they kept losing players just outside of the starting group and would have to reload their bench each year.

A player that may not seem to fit our needs could very easily fit an expansion team's needs when their most pressing problem is completing a roster with Day-1 starters. I dislike Hernandez, but he can start immediately. Other dislike Mena, but he can start immediately. Expansion teams may see either/both as a piece of their puzzle. Both have relatively high Cap hits, but not really high for the CB position - the CB will almost always cost in the neighborhood of 200K for a starter.

 

[SoupInNYC]

The other thing to consider here is that Minnesota already has a roster effectively in place, right?

So in essence, won't Atlanta really be the only team needing the expansion draft to build out its roster?

 

[Ulrich]

The other thing to consider here is that Minnesota already has a roster effectively in place, right?

So in essence, won't Atlanta really be the only team needing the expansion draft to build out its roster?

Minnesota has Jeb and others. I happen to have liked Jeb's play (at certain times), but would you want him as a starter? Or any other players comparable to him?

Not trying to cut his knees out, but there is a reason he isn't on our team and Minnesota wasn't lighting it up in the NASL with the players they have.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

The other thing to consider here is that Minnesota already has a roster effectively in place, right?

So in essence, won't Atlanta really be the only team needing the expansion draft to build out its roster?

Minnesota has a NASL roster in place. And despite the protestations of some NASL people on r/MLS a NASL squad is going to be of much lower caliber than a MLS squad.

Think about it this way, we got beat by the Cosmos twice. That game is basically the most important game of the year for them, for us it was n opportunity to run out a team that otherwise would never see the field. Basically permanent bench warmers and people who don't make the 18. Seeing how NASL teams are universally knocked out every time the bracket has gotten to the point MLS first teams take the pitch we can see a kind of upper limit to quality.

This is more instructive to us since the Cosmos won their league this year. So it was the best of the NASL versus the bench of a good MLS team. The Cosmos got knocked out by the NE Rev's who came in 14th place overall this year. By the sports transitive property this means that the very best of the NASL is a worse finish than 14th place.

This disregards the fact that everyone and their mothers has a DP of some sort. A DP caliber player, even one on the low end, is going to be a threat that NASL caliber defenses simply cannot stand up to.

So where does this leave us wrt Minnesota?

The logical conclusion is that the best NASL players on their roster are probably going to be good bench players in MLS. Minnesota can pretty safely cut everyone who doesn't already start, the quality won't be there for the higher overall level. If Minnesota was lucky they might have a MLS starting caliber player or two that either flew under the radar or has only recently grown into that caliber of player.

We need to ask ourselves what building out the roster means. In our case two years ago it was FIND ALL THE PLAYERS! Now for Minnesota its probably something like, among the unprotected players, who can we get that's starting quality? And like we found out two years ago, that's pretty slim pickings.

Also remember you have to do all this with cap constraints, some of those NASL guys you would prefer to bring up might not like the idea of maybe taking a salary cut.

So with 2 DP's, and lets be generous and say two MLS caliber players coming up from the NASL you've got four slots out of your starting 11 filled. They'd need seven more guys, and with how thin talent is already from the repeated expansions, good luck filling them.

 

[Ulrich]

Minnesota has a NASL roster in place. And despite the protestations of some NASL people on r/MLS a NASL squad is going to be of much lower caliber than a MLS squad.

Think about it this way, we got beat by the Cosmos twice. That game is basically the most important game of the year for them, for us it was n opportunity to run out a team that otherwise would never see the field. Basically permanent bench warmers and people who don't make the 18. Seeing how NASL teams are universally knocked out every time the bracket has gotten to the point MLS first teams take the pitch we can see a kind of upper limit to quality.

This is more instructive to us since the Cosmos won their league this year. So it was the best of the NASL versus the bench of a good MLS team. The Cosmos got knocked out by the NE Rev's who came in 14th place overall this year. By the sports transitive property this means that the very best of the NASL is a worse finish than 14th place.

This disregards the fact that everyone and their mothers has a DP of some sort. A DP caliber player, even one on the low end, is going to be a threat that NASL caliber defenses simply cannot stand up to.

So where does this leave us wrt Minnesota?

The logical conclusion is that the best NASL players on their roster are probably going to be good bench players in MLS. Minnesota can pretty safely cut everyone who doesn't already start, the quality won't be there for the higher overall level. If Minnesota was lucky they might have a MLS starting caliber player or two that either flew under the radar or has only recently grown into that caliber of player.

We need to ask ourselves what building out the roster means. In our case two years ago it was FIND ALL THE PLAYERS! Now for Minnesota its probably something like, among the unprotected players, who can we get that's starting quality? And like we found out two years ago, that's pretty slim pickings.

Also remember you have to do all this with cap constraints, some of those NASL guys you would prefer to bring up might not like the idea of maybe taking a salary cut.

So with 2 DP's, and lets be generous and say two MLS caliber players coming up from the NASL you've got four slots out of your starting 11 filled. They'd need seven more guys, and with how thin talent is already from the repeated expansions, good luck filling them.

If they are as snakebit as NYCFC was, they will only have 1 DP on day 1 so they'll need 8 starting players....

 

[joe]

Orlando is a useful precedent, and they did not make the playoffs last year.

 

[Kjbert]

I believe MNUFC had an awful year as well. Not a ton of talent on that roster and there is a suggestion that their best player, Christian Rodriguez (?) could be sold this offseason.