Does Anyone Else Believe

Kjbert

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that at some point in 2015, we will see an MCFC first teamer on loan here at NYCFC?

Possibly an out of favor Joe Hart? Jack Rodwell if he is still around?

Because of the difference in league calendars, I wonder if an out of favor player or an injured guy like Scott Sinclair was last year could be loaned to NYCFC to help regain form or keep them fit.
 

AndreT_NY

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I see that as entirely probable. I see no use in guessing because well who knows what could happen in the future? I believe that will happen as much as I believe ETIHAD will be on our kit.
CTID
 
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DanC

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If I understand correctly, NYCFC has an agreement with MLS to allow up to 4 MCFC U21s to come over on loan. I would think if an out of favor player came over on loan it would raise not only contractual issues but lead to more oversight by the MLS.
 

Kjbert

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Yes in regards to the 4 Reserve team players.

But outside of our affiliation, what is any different between that scenario and Julio Ceasar?
 

BxLio91

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Toronto and QPR don't have the same owners. Plus the salary of a loanee counts against the cap.
 

Kjbert

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Toronto and QPR don't have the same owners. Plus the salary of a loanee counts against the cap.


I thought we figured out that wasn't true. His salary couldn't have completely counted against the cap as they already had 3 DPs.
 

Midas Mulligan

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I thought we figured out that wasn't true. His salary couldn't have completely counted against the cap as they already had 3 DPs.
What the MLS club pays him counts is my understanding. The issue with MCFC loaning a player is that they cut give us the brother-in-law price and circumvent the rules. Given the potential for that scenario, I'm sure that any agreement worked out between CFG & MLS takes that out of the realm of possibility.

But I am willing to bet that MLS won't just turn away talent if it's a player with some talent. They'll do whatever they want when it comes down to it, and they won't really care how much it pisses off the Dynamo.
 

NYCFCFan10

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Can't happen if they have 3 DPs.

No matter how they structure the loan, the player's full salary is what MLS will go by so no team can dance around the salary cap.

If a youngster is being paid less than ~$500k, then that would work.
 

Kjbert

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Can't happen if they have 3 DPs.

No matter how they structure the loan, the player's full salary is what MLS will go by so no team can dance around the salary cap.

If a youngster is being paid less than ~$500k, then that would work.


Again, Julio Caesar's doesn't count against the Cap fully. Just what QPR didn't pick up.
 
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MrE

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It is the Sheikhs club, If he wants to buy Messi for Man City, and loan him to NYCFC, at "brother in law rates" WTF does it have to do with the MLS?

Vice Versa also applies.
 
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Midas Mulligan

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It is the Sheikhs club, If he wants to buy Messi for Man City, and loan him to NYCFC, at "brother in law rates" WTF does it have to do with the MLS?

Vice Versa also applies.

Well, it has to do with the entire MLS structure as it stands. Time Warner bought boatloads of superstars for the real Cosmos, and the whole league went under chasing them (not to mention the amount TW lost). MLS has built its base via grassroots efforts. It is slow going, but it it's proven viable in a way soccer has never been here. If CFG did it, it wouldn't be long before the arms race launched.

MLS and US Soccer are very much in bed together, and I think there's a very conscious effort to not simply be another premier league. Of course they would aspire to that sort of global recognition and the quality, but I think they are rightly looking at building out further development infrastructure before turning their sights fully on being a global league. There's so much quality that can be added via CONCACAF and earlier talent identification, I'd prefer to see us become a league full of great young talent supplemented by some experienced high level players that really turns a profit on selling players to the big leagues. If I were making a 20 year plan, that's what I'd go for. Honestly, it might only be 10 away. If they could sort out a way to sign some of these guys like Pulisic or Flores and then sell them on to Dortmund, the money would work itself out while maintaining some equilibrium.

I'm all over the map. In any event, the answer to your "Why?" is simply that it's not the way MLS works. The league is a cartel because that's how it's organized. It's not the most capitalistic structure ever, but you knew that. They are all protecting each other and keeping expenses down while maximizing revenue (to strengthen development I sincerely hope).

It's really a pretty interesting structure. As much as I'd love to see teams sign lots of big names, I do think there is a niche for MLS to be a pretty widely known and respected league due to its level playing field and the inability to solve problems by splashing cash. As many people as there are who constantly complain about the big clubs just spending everyone into also-ran status, it's feasible that MLS might gain some backlash fans in non-American markets.
 
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Falastur

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It is the Sheikhs club, If he wants to buy Messi for Man City, and loan him to NYCFC, at "brother in law rates" WTF does it have to do with the MLS?

Vice Versa also applies.

There's no way that it could happen in either way. If MCFC signed a player for NYCFC, it would ruin their spending under UEFA's FFPR and would mean more punishments, up to and including being banned from the Champions League. If NYCFC signed a player for MCFC, it would destroy their salary cap limits and would ruin the planning for building the rest of the squad who were actually planning on staying in NYC. The same applies for Melbourne City, who are under even more punitive restrictions over their squad composition and salaries than NYCFC. So in short, it ain't going to happen, so there's little point speculating about it.
 

MrE

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There's no way that it could happen in either way. If MCFC signed a player for NYCFC, it would ruin their spending under UEFA's FFPR and would mean more punishments, up to and including being banned from the Champions League. If NYCFC signed a player for MCFC, it would destroy their salary cap limits and would ruin the planning for building the rest of the squad who were actually planning on staying in NYC. The same applies for Melbourne City, who are under even more punitive restrictions over their squad composition and salaries than NYCFC. So in short, it ain't going to happen, so there's little point speculating about it.

Agree, I was talking hypothetically / morally .... Its his money he should be able to do what he wants.
 
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Brahma_B

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Messi or even someone like Milner is a total non-starter, but it would be someone precisely like Sinclair-who is of no value to MCFC as a player or asset but could help NYCFC immensely- that would interest me. Not possessing an intricate knowledge of the system, I am basing this on the Caesar example and the fact that his wages are a relative drop in the bucket for the big club.
 
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NYCFCFan10

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Again, Julio Caesar's doesn't count against the Cap fully. Just what QPR didn't pick up.
QPR and Toronto aren't owned by the same owner.

The rules were the same for Chivas USA and CD Guadalajara. Its the same for Inter Milan and DC United. The same for Arsenal and Colorado Rapids.

MLS isn't dumb and not afraid to enforce its rules, of which, loans from sister clubs would be dancing around.
 
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MrE

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QPR and Toronto aren't owned by the same owner.

The rules were the same for Chivas USA and CD Guadalajara. Its the same for Inter Milan and DC United. The same for Arsenal and Colorado Rapids.

MLS isn't dumb and not afraid to enforce its rules, of which, loans from sister clubs would be dancing around.

I did not realise that (other than what I have read here ref Chivas) that other clubs had sister or parent clubs, how close are the connections you mention ?
 

MrE

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Messi or even someone like Milner is a total non-starter, but it would be someone precisely like Sinclair-who is of no value to MCFC as a player or asset but could help NYCFC immensely- that would interest me. Not possessing an intricate knowledge of the system, I am basing this on the Caesar example and the fact that his wages are a relative drop in the bucket for the big club.

To be fair, I think City owe it to Scott Sinclair to sort him out with a move to you guys. We knew he wasn't good enough when we bought him. Why we bought him was a mystery to us fans. HE had a fantastic career going at Swansea. Even as a City fan, I will say we were party to derailing his PL career. It has tones of what Chelsea did to SWP. I hope (in the absence of anyone better) you guys do get him on a free.
 

NYCFCFan10

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I did not realise that (other than what I have read here ref Chivas) that other clubs had sister or parent clubs, how close are the connections you mention ?
Same majority/sole owner in both cases.

Rumors were swirling after Stan Kroenke (Arsenal majority owner) bought a huge chunk of land in LA last year that he intends to sell Colorado and buy Chivas and re-name them the "LA Gunners" or "LA Arsenal"

No one knows what the land in LA is for I believe.
 

Kjbert

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He bought the land to build an American football stadium. Still trying to get an LA NFL franchise.

I don't like the Colorado comparison or Chivas. They are crap franchises any way you cut it.

If Garber wants this league to be closer to the EPL, he sides with the NYCFCs of the world. Otherwise he might as well become the Commish of the NASL.