Expansion Rumors Megathread

Why does the league need to be cap? If England, smaller than Texas, has 20, than the U.S. could handle a top league with 50+ teams.
US + Canada

I've always said US could handle 40 teams.
We have 22 teams now (counting LAFC and ATL)

We could realistically add:

1.Tampa
2.Jacksonville
3.Nashville
4.Memphis
5.New Orleans
6.Austin
7.San Antonio
8.Sacramento
9.Charlotte
10.Detroit
11.Cleveland
12.Cincinnati
13.Pittsburgh
14.Las Vegas
15.San Diego
16.San Francisco
17.Louisville
18.St. Louis
19.Milwaukee
20.Phoenix
21.Oklahoma City
22.Omaha
23.Indianapolis

If MLS ever can win over the CSA again we could add Calgary up there or a 2nd team in Toronto.

Could also add 2nd teams in Chicago, Houston, and Miami.
 
US + Canada

I've always said US could handle 40 teams.
We have 22 teams now (counting LAFC and ATL)

We could realistically add:

1.Tampa
2.Jacksonville
3.Nashville
4.Memphis
5.New Orleans
6.Austin
7.San Antonio
8.Sacramento
9.Charlotte
10.Detroit
11.Cleveland
12.Cincinnati
13.Pittsburgh
14.Las Vegas
15.San Diego
16.San Francisco
17.Louisville
18.St. Louis
19.Milwaukee
20.Phoenix
21.Oklahoma City
22.Omaha
23.Indianapolis

If MLS ever can win over the CSA again we could add Calgary up there or a 2nd team in Toronto.

Could also add 2nd teams in Chicago, Houston, and Miami.
You are crazy if you think that Houston could support another team! They can't even fill the stadium when the Dynamo play.

Side note: the Dynamo have alienated just about every potential fan in the Houston area with horrible game coverage (games only on root sports that few major carriers have) and even worse marketing.
 
You are crazy if you think that Houston could support another team! They can't even fill the stadium when the Dynamo play.

Side note: the Dynamo have alienated just about every potential fan in the Houston area with horrible game coverage (games only on root sports that few major carriers have) and even worse marketing.
I'm not saying we wake up tomorrow and start a new Houston team.

I'm saying down the road when Soccer, andmore specifically MLS, is a firmly entrenched sport in this country.

Houston has a metro population of 6.3 million people right now. 44% hispanic/latino population who generally are more soccer-loving.

They could, in the future, handle a local derby. No doubt.
 
You can't directly compare soccer in England to soccer in America. It's very tempting to say soccer will work the same everywhere, but it's much more apt to compare soccer in America to other sports leagues in America.

When did Garber say 30 is too many? I'm surprised to hear him say that.

But honestly, he might be right. Quality expansion candidates are going to fall in number at the same time that the expansion criteria will get more stringent (rising franchise values will increase the expansion fee rapidly!). Expanding from 20 to 24 was relatively easy and necessary for the league. Going from 24 to 28 will be a little tougher, and a little bit less necessary. At 28, we have pretty successfully saturated the country with teams that cater to just about every region or sub-region. TV contracts will be high. The marginal benefit from going from 28 to 32 is much lower, and could take a decade+ to find the right markets and investors.

I mean, tell me what market is available, after 39 other teams are already in existence, that is worth a $1 billion expansion fee??? It's just not going to happen, there are too many competing sports. And existing owners aren't going to devalue their teams by lowering the expansion fee. This is their end game - boost their franchise values up an order of magnitude.

I think 32 is basically the high end for the league long term. And it will take longer than you might expect to get there. From 24 to 28 might take 5-10 years. Going from 28 to 32 might take 10+ years.

As for pro/reg? Seems like a long shot. A group of lower tier teams are going to have to buy that right for a hefty, hefty fee, because it will instantly take down the value of MLS franchises 10% to 50%. Let's say in 15 years there is a thriving NASL with a decent TV deal, so the relegation threat only devalues MLS franchises 15%. There are 28 MLS teams, valued at an average of $750 million (compared to today's ~$100 million). That's $3.15 billion in value. That's how much the NASL would have to pay MLS to adopt pro-reg between the levels. And that's only if MLS owners decide they want the cash. More likely, NASL would have to pay a premium, so you're looking at a merger that costs NASL $5+ billion under this scenario.

A perennially successful team like the Cosmo's could see their franchise value double, as they expect promotion and to retain their MLS spot for a while. But smaller NASL fish are not going to want to contribute their $200+ million to the pot just to have the chance of getting promoted one day.
 
I'm not saying we wake up tomorrow and start a new Houston team.

I'm saying down the road when Soccer, andmore specifically MLS, is a firmly entrenched sport in this country.

Houston has a metro population of 6.3 million people right now. 44% hispanic/latino population who generally are more soccer-loving.

They could, in the future, handle a local derby. No doubt.
No, there is no way that they can support another team. They can't even support the team they've got!

I might change my mind once I see them support the team they have.
 
Expansion is currently planned for 24 teams. At that number, you have two conferences of 12 teams each. That allows for a home-away series with each of your conference rivals and one game against each team in the other conference for 34 total games. It all works very well.

If you go beyond 24, then you have to get creative. Yes, you could go to more than 34 games, but you'd have to extend the season - maybe start in February. At 26 teams using the format above, you are at 37 games (and odd numbers are bad because you can't balance home and away). At 28 teams, you are at 40 games.

If you go beyond 24, at some point you have to divide into more conferences. With 27 teams, you could do 3 conferences, playing home-away within your conference and single games outside your conference and end up with 34 games. With 30 teams, you get 38 games.
 
MLS has proven that they don't mind playing in a 19 team, 9 team/10 team conferences-league with uneven schedule.

I'm not sure your logic means anything to them.
 
We could realistically add:

1.Tampa
2.Jacksonville
3.Nashville
4.Memphis
5.New Orleans
6.Austin
7.San Antonio
8.Sacramento
9.Charlotte
10.Detroit
11.Cleveland
12.Cincinnati
13.Pittsburgh
14.Las Vegas
15.San Diego
16.San Francisco
17.Louisville
18.St. Louis
19.Milwaukee
20.Phoenix
21.Oklahoma City
22.Omaha
23.Indianapolis

Sadly, I would only want to live in a "handful" of these cities so I wonder how attractive these cities would be to other people, much less the best players in the world.
 
It's very unlikely small market MLS teams will ever have that sort of money.
Why?

Green Bay Packers just took in $226.4 million in revenue in 2014. Little, tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Small markets are never really destined to hold the Messi's and Ronaldo's of the world but they can definitely make money.
 

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Why?

Green Bay Packers just took in $226.4 million in revenue in 2014. Little, tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Small markets are never really destined to hold the Messi's and Ronaldo's of the world but they can definitely make money.

The MLS isn't the NFL and never will be, look at the revenue's of small NHL teams, that's a much better comparison.
 
Average franchise value by sports league in the U.S. from 2007 to 2015 (in million U.S. dollars): http://www.statista.com/statistics/202758/franchise-value-of-us-sports-teams/

Two years ago, MLS hit $100M: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/11/22/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx

In 2013, MLS was about 25% the value of the NHL, and less than 10% the value of the NFL.

Attendance is a big deal, but TV contracts are even bigger. We'll get there, but we have a long way to climb yet. But I like to think we are in the process of jumping the chasm with all these high profile European signings flooding the league, and guys like Dos Santos:

adoption-curve-Slide12B.JPG

If this adoption curve holds true in this context, the next 10 years are going to see massive growth in the sport, perhaps shockingly massive. The most optimistic case would have us jumping the NHL in average franchise value with the new TV deal in 2022, and then settling in with MLB and NBA in the middle of the new Big 5 by the TV deal after that.
 
The MLS isn't the NFL and never will be, look at the revenue's of small NHL teams, that's a much better comparison.
No it's not.

Soccer is a much more global game and people elsewhere are willing to splash a lot more cash for our product.

We can sell more jerseys, we can sign bigger TV deals (one of the only leagues in the summer), we can put advertisements on the uniforms, we can sell players to wealthy teams elsewhere, hell, MLS is getting a good cut when foreign teams come and play friendlies in America.

There's no reason NFL money should be forever out of reach.
 
No it's not.

Soccer is a much more global game and people elsewhere are willing to splash a lot more cash for our product.

We can sell more jerseys, we can sign bigger TV deals (one of the only leagues in the summer), we can put advertisements on the uniforms, we can sell players to wealthy teams elsewhere, hell, MLS is getting a good cut when foreign teams come and play friendlies in America.

There's no reason NFL money should be forever out of reach.

The summer league attraction is overstated, what happens every other year when the World Cup/Euros is on? The international appeal of the league will all but disappear. For the foreseeable future MLS hasn't got a hope in hell of attracting NFL sized TV deals, in 20 years time it might overtake the NHL if it's lucky.
 
The summer league attraction is overstated, what happens every other year when the World Cup/Euros is on? The international appeal of the league will all but disappear. For the foreseeable future MLS hasn't got a hope in hell of attracting NFL sized TV deals, in 20 years time it might overtake the NHL if it's lucky.
MLS will be the Number 5 league in the us and could get a NHL style in the next round, given how NHL's ratings aren't that high and NYCFCFan10 we don't need MLS to past the other leagues we need just need MLS to get the ratings up so we can get the big TV money but MLS isn't replacing any of the other leagues.
 
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