The best plan is get as few current starters to continue being starters. With a better defense, the role of Defensive midfielder is less important and the distribution portion of that role is higher. We can actually play soccer instead of the "DEFEND FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!1!" thing we have been playing.
Formation Speculation
- Thread starter sbrylski
- Start date
It is very possible that Kreis has a different take on Pirlo. Although very unlikely, he could push Pirlo up to more of a holding CAM/CF position and not put him back deep. More of a role like Totti plays with Roma. Could go 4-4-1-1 if keeping Villa as a lone striker and playing possession or 4-3-3 (false 9) if wanting a more attacking formation with Villa on the wing. Back to reality...either way, unless there's in game adjustments for tactical reasons...Kreis has to stay with one striker. No reason to put two up top anymore.
BlueWarrior
Registered
I deff see us trotting this out and winning with this formation. Villa does just fine up by himself if he gets the right service and people running next to him like poku, lampard, and mix.
marky365
Registered
Now that Pirlo will be pulling the strings from deep (and trust me, his reading of the game almost negates the need for a holding midfielder or destroyer), Lampard just needs to be played into space around the edge of the box and the goals will start flowing.
If it's a midfield diamond the coach prefers, you need Pirlo at the bottom, Lampard at the top and two box-to-box players on either side.
I see Kreis going with his 4-4-2 diamond, and I think our strongest starting XI is this:
-----------------Villa--------Mullins---------------
------------------------Poku-------------------------
--------Lampard-------------------Mix-----------
------------------------Pirlo--------------------------
Angelino-----Facey-----Hernandez-----Iraola
---------------------Saunders-----------------------
I like Mullins up top with Villa, and Poku needs to get more of a chance at playing an attacking mid.
This lineup will strike fear in all men.
The guy I would like to see with all the previously mentioned lineups is tommy mac. Think him instead of mullins would be pretty nasty. He has been vital in starting our scoring chances and can be a good scoring option next to Villa. For some reason Villa doesn't seem to like passing to him. Anyone else notice that?
Everyone wants to force the diamond, but remember that the diamond requires a LOT of running, particularly by the two CMs. There are other issues, but this one is the biggest. Lampard isn't a runner anymore.
Wait so you are saying Kries is going play someone out of their natural position? It worked so well with Facey at FB and Poku at CDM might as well keep it going.
All kidding aside I could see this. A number of high profile DPs that have come to MLS in the past have shifted from their previous positions into that CAM/CF creator type role and been very successful.
I've been on the Pirlo as an enganche (stationary CAM) train for quite a while now. I really think it could work with a bit of tactical creativity. You also don't have to shield him defensively if you put him further up the field.
That pushes Lampard out of the 10 spot, though, which many NYCFC fans think he fits. I still don't think he's a #10, and I'd rather have a guy with Pirlo's skillset at that spot than Lampard's.
Keep in mind Pirlo was able to play such a deep role cause he played alongside some of the best box 2 box mids in the game in Marchisio and Vidal. Plus Chiellini or Bonucci are one of the best CB tandems in the world. As much as a 4-4-2 diamond does make sense on the surface, it puts him too deep. If he is going to be the foundation of team, you need to look at how Juve utilized him in a 4-3-1-2 - It is basically the same thing as a 4-4-2 diamond, but drops the L and R Mids back for better defensive and possession alignment. It is similar to how Kreis likes to play but you don't have to leave Pirlo alone. I want him to create, not go around chasing defensively, it doesn't make sense. Even before this year, Juve played a 3-5-2. The Italian National team never left him alone in the back either. That being said, he is not built for a 4-4-2 diamond or 4-1-2-1-2. He needs to be able to do his thing and that means playing him with a workhorse and also someone that will make runs. Juve adapts from a 4-3-1-2 to 4-3-2-1 depending on personnel, but the back line and mid fielders mainly stayed the same.
It could work. I think the big issue will still be getting the ball out of the back. We have such a hard time with getting the ball through that space between the top of our defensive box and the midfield line. Jacobson has done some nice things on defense in a number of games but he doesn't have Poku like dribbling skills to carry that ball through that area or the passing skills to cleanly distribute the ball through. If we can't figure it out all that will happen is Villa having Prilo to hang out with when he has is hands on his hips and we can't get him the ball.
The problem is, Jacobson needs to play. I know many won't like that, but it's the truth. He's been asked to do more than he's capable of. He needs to concentrate on defense and with Pirlo back there, he can.
Villa/Mullins
Lampard
Jacobson/Pirlo/Mix
Angelino/Facey/Hernandez/Iraola
Apologies if this has been previously discussed but why don't we ever talk about Lampard playing the CDM holding type role? Everyone seems so egar to shove Pirlo into the Jacobson spot. The question with Lampard is, what do you do with a prototypical box to box CM when they get old and you don't want to waste their legs going box to box. The solution everyone jumps to is cut his work load by giving them less of the field to cover and making him a CAM. Why can't it go the other way and give him less field to cover by playing him in the deep role. Let him manage the game, get the ball forward and make the occasional deep run. He has defensive skills. I am not advocating for it, I'm not even sure its a good idea, just wondering why it's never brought up.
While I hear you on that, having Mix and Lamps in the midfield should help there. Jacobsen isn't a natural pivot, but he's also not *awful* there either.
By putting him at CDM, you're taking away his best asset - late runs into the box that give you another scoring option. At CDM, he's really just another guy, in my view.
This is the unfortunate thing - because Lamps' natural position requires his legs, he's the absolute worst kind of late age signing. Pirlo already plays an old man game, so it's not a problem. But Lampard really needs to be able to run to help. Maybe he can do that now, but there's no guarantee he'll be able to really run a year or two from now.
Kries' philosophy is quite literally "put good players on the field and let them run around." (Part of the reason he has looked like a shitty manager for the last few months - we haven't had any good players.) That's why he likes the diamond, because it's so fluid.
Good players know where to be. They know how to utilize space, they know how to work together offensively, and they know how to position themselves cover defensively.
So talking about "placing" Lampard or Pirlo into a "role" is just not what Kries is going to do. More likely, he places players on the field that will naturally balance themselves out.
Pirlo has played his entire career behind the play as a distributor.
Lampard has played most of his career just outside the box.
Villa has obviously played most of his career way up top, or wide left.
Ok that's three. Looks like we need some defensive cover, someone to make runs, and either another runner or another forward to take focus off Villa. Looks like Jacobson, Mix, and Ballouchy (another runner) or Poku (up top) to me.
Just put those guys on the field and they'll naturally float into their positions. They know what to do.
Good players know where to be. They know how to utilize space, they know how to work together offensively, and they know how to position themselves cover defensively.
So talking about "placing" Lampard or Pirlo into a "role" is just not what Kries is going to do. More likely, he places players on the field that will naturally balance themselves out.
Pirlo has played his entire career behind the play as a distributor.
Lampard has played most of his career just outside the box.
Villa has obviously played most of his career way up top, or wide left.
Ok that's three. Looks like we need some defensive cover, someone to make runs, and either another runner or another forward to take focus off Villa. Looks like Jacobson, Mix, and Ballouchy (another runner) or Poku (up top) to me.
Just put those guys on the field and they'll naturally float into their positions. They know what to do.
I don't intend to inflate your ego or anything, but you really know your shit.
I was going to say that we have some guys that Kreis knows where they are going to play on the pitch...the other guys there are too many variables. Nemec could work now...Mullins is faster, younger, right now better...but yes, Poku can play up top too..but he is a better attacking mid. Oh that's right, we have Lampard now and that seems be his spot. Maybe two attacking mids then (Poku/Lampard) flanking right behind single striker Villa...Then there's Mix...he's played defensively in his career before, is he best in the back with Pirlo or will Jacobson flourish next to the maestro and be a defensive juggernaut. Is it dumb to put Pirlo, Mix and Lampard as the 3 mids and put Poku as the CAM. Wait until we see Angelino flying around and want a Angelino/Villa/Shelton trident up top lol. We have options now and we have good players now...This is where Kreis needs to step the F up and put his big boy pants on. It's easy to not be under the microscope when you have limited talent...now it's a totally different story. He needs to be able to assess during practice what the best possible line-up works best against that upcoming opponent. Now he has to manage this team.
Agreed. I think Kreis has a minimum of two years to settle in with this club. But starting this weekend, even a Kreis apologist like me is going to run out of excuses for him. He's supposed to know better than all of us what strings to pull. Not only that, but with the roster that's been assembled for him, there's only like 2 decisions he needs to make regarding the starting XI each week. If he still manages to fuck those up, that's bad news for Jason.
Great discussion.
Here are a few of the areas of tension that we have to think about in our formation/starting XI. It's not possible to deal with them all at the same time.
1. Villa isn't best utilized as a lone striker, so it's best to play 2 forwards.
2. Lampard is best in an advanced central position, but the same is true of Poku. Is it a good idea to put either on the wing?
3. Pirlo plays best from the back, but he needs defensive support. Given our back line, it makes sense to provide another covering midfielder (Jacobson).
If you combine them all, you get 4 central midfielders and 2 strikers, which obviously doesn't make any sense. One option is to put Villa by himself and have either Poku or Lampard on a wing with Pirlo and Jacobson in back. That's my preferred 4-2-3-1. Another is to have Villa and Poku up top, with Lampard in the middle and Pirlo alone in back. That's your 4-4-2 (diamond or not).
Here are a few of the areas of tension that we have to think about in our formation/starting XI. It's not possible to deal with them all at the same time.
1. Villa isn't best utilized as a lone striker, so it's best to play 2 forwards.
2. Lampard is best in an advanced central position, but the same is true of Poku. Is it a good idea to put either on the wing?
3. Pirlo plays best from the back, but he needs defensive support. Given our back line, it makes sense to provide another covering midfielder (Jacobson).
If you combine them all, you get 4 central midfielders and 2 strikers, which obviously doesn't make any sense. One option is to put Villa by himself and have either Poku or Lampard on a wing with Pirlo and Jacobson in back. That's my preferred 4-2-3-1. Another is to have Villa and Poku up top, with Lampard in the middle and Pirlo alone in back. That's your 4-4-2 (diamond or not).
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