Looking Ahead - Winter Window

[The Toe]

Is Matarrita expendable? Discuss.

Absolutely he is. I think he should be sold while his price is high.... though his now injury-prone tag is going to bring that price down. I'd rather stick with Sweat and spread the money on depth. Sweat is really not one of our huge problems. I think our CBs when healthy, Ring (probably back), Herrera (probably not back), Villa, Maxi, Jack and even Rodney are our best deals going forward. Wing backs, CDM and midfield depth are where we need to splash some cash.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

If we keep Herrera and move to a 3-5-2, the DP should be a striker.

Keeping Herrera complicates things, because as good as depth is, will MCFC keep him here if he's not a first choice starter? Which means we may have to choose between a DP CM and Herrera.

A DP CM next to Ring in either a flat 3-4-3 with Maxi at LW or a 3-5-2 with Maxi at CAM looks pretty good, as long as we sign two new backup CMs for depth.

No matter what formation we play, more right sided players are needed (RM, RB, RCB).

Next DP basically must be a striker or a 9.5 who could play striker, no matter what. I don't see any way around it short of intentional sabotage. But I'd say that about signings and our fullbacks and midfield situation now, and look what we did.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I still think you guys are and have long been very much over-rating the odds Herrera is gone after this year.

I'd explain why, yet again, but fuck. Guys, Acosta made the all star team and has WCQ caps. he's like 1 year older and not 1 formal offer came in this window.

I just beg of everyone, please don't assert "probably" or "likely" about any transfer if you don't actually invest the time to understand the dynamics of the greater global player market and then include that explanation in your post.

It comes off as very noobish to expect to smack every decent player on the ass after one - two year and say "thanks, thanks so much".

That ain't how shit works. That ain't how any of this shit works at all.

 

[Marito]

Well, should have read your post first. I copied your sentiment, but added more reasons.

I can't necessarily agree that he's overrated relative to his transfer fee because I don't know what that fee is or what that really even means. If he's over-rated and the fee is more than his actual quality deserves, then his price would accurately reflect his perceived level.

Let's not forget he's a starter for a top 20-30 NT, guys. The kid is pretty damn good, even if he doesn't defend for shit many times (apparently, that's a thing for NYC leftbacks).

And even being an indifferent defender, he's not as bad a defender as Sweat.

 

[Marito]

Absolutely he is. I think he should be sold while his price is high.... though his now injury-prone tag is going to bring that price down. I'd rather stick with Sweat and spread the money on depth. Sweat is really not one of our huge problems. I think our CBs when healthy, Ring (probably back), Herrera (probably not back), Villa, Maxi, Jack and even Rodney are our best deals going forward. Wing backs, CDM and midfield depth are where we need to splash some cash.

I personally think Sweat is not one of our great problems simply because he's not supposed to be a starter. He a minimum salary sub, and he's a great deal as such. But if we're debating selling Mata, then we need to replace him with another starter-quality LB or move to 3 in the back. But Sweat is not OK as our choice starter. Same goes for White. They are very clearly the weakest link in our current Best XI.

 

[Ulrich]

Probably. Most teams interested see a raw talent with all the physical attributes to be a good LB at a major level.

Still think if he was playing all year though, he'd have at least as good stats as Sweat because this year's overall team is way better than last year's

No way Mata ever scores a header vs RB

 

[Gotham Gator]

I still think you guys are and have long been very much over-rating the odds Herrera is gone after this year.

I'd explain why, yet again, but fuck. Guys, Acosta made the all star team and has WCQ caps. he's like 1 year older and not 1 formal offer came in this window.

I just beg of everyone, please don't assert "probably" or "likely" about any transfer if you don't actually invest the time to understand the dynamics of the greater global player market and then include that explanation in your post.

It comes off as very noobish to expect to smack every decent player on the ass after one - two year and say "thanks, thanks so much".

That ain't how shit works. That ain't how any of this shit works at all.

He wants to be in Europe. There has been interest from Europe. He is currently signed to a European club, who could easily choose to loan him out to a team in Europe instead of returning him to us. None of that means he is definitely over there in 2018, but is seems a bit more likely than not.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

He wants to be in Europe. There has been interest from Europe. He is currently signed to a European club, who could easily choose to loan him out to a team in Europe instead of returning him to us. None of that means he is definitely over there in 2018, but is seems a bit more likely than not.

That's not a completely unfair take, but he's not in a position where he will be hurting himself to stay here. I'd argue he'd benefit. He's going to be either riding pine in a significantly better league, trying to integrate and win time at mid-season in a marginally better league, or stay here right under CFG's noses and be a starter coached by a legend of the same position.

Additionally, I think CFG appreciates that he's more important to the club here than whatever potential marginal benefit might be eked out elsewhere. I could be wrong on that, in which case, we should all be disappointed. Where I feel absolutely confident is that playing a full year here of big boy football (eta: which he still won't have done at the end of this season) can only help him and his value. He's not 23-24. He'll be 20 and is still yet to play a full season. He's very tactically naive, and there's a ton he can still learn. He also doesn't really have the clout to push too hard for a move.

Damnit. I said I wasn't going to go over all of this again, so now I'm annoyed with myself.

eta deux: I think and hope they send him to train with MCFC in January, let him get his feet wet over there and take some selfies and hit the club with Yaya (who doesn't drink ) a time or two. Then, he can come back here and hold a starter role for 30 games and shine. Prove you're too good for the league, then get your move.

 

[Gotham Gator]

That's not a completely unfair take, but he's not in a position where he will be hurting himself to stay here. I'd argue he'd benefit. He's going to be either riding pine in a significantly better league, trying to integrate and win time at mid-season in a marginally better league, or stay hear right under CFG's noses and be a starter coached by a legend of the same position.

Additionally, I think CFG appreciates that he's more important to the club here than whatever potential marginal benefit might be eked out elsewhere. I could be wrong on that, in which case, we should all be disappointed. Where I feel absolutely confident is that playing a full year here of big boy football can only help him and his value. He's not 23-24. He'll be 20 and is still yet to play a full season. He's very tactically naive, and there's a ton he can still learn. He also doesn't really have the clout to push too hard for a move.

Damnit. I said I wasn't going to go over all of this again, so now I'm annoyed with myself.

I don't disagree with any of this. I do think this season has been good for him and that another in MLS will only aid his growth. There are just a lot of other forces at play.

 

[Kjbert]

Let's make this easy. Why don't we spell out the players we are confident won't lose their place in the line-up, build the team around them and then determine where the holes are:

Villa - CF - No one is displacing him int he line-up
Moralez - CAM - No one is displacing him
Harrison - RW - Unless sold, he is starting
Ring - CDM - If here, he starts
Herrera - CM - If here, he starts
Chanot - First choice CB
Johnson - Goalkeeper and USMNT candidate

That's 7 of the 11 positions. You could make the argument that Callens deserves to be in that list. If Matarrita is still on this team, he's not coming off the bench. That's both CBs and your LB assumably.

So you are looking to upgrade at RB, RWB or LWB or LB depending on the formation.

 

[Seven]

That's not a completely unfair take, but he's not in a position where he will be hurting himself to stay here. I'd argue he'd benefit. He's going to be either riding pine in a significantly better league, trying to integrate and win time at mid-season in a marginally better league, or stay hear right under CFG's noses and be a starter coached by a legend of the same position.

Additionally, I think CFG appreciates that he's more important to the club here than whatever potential marginal benefit might be eked out elsewhere. I could be wrong on that, in which case, we should all be disappointed. Where I feel absolutely confident is that playing a full year here of big boy football can only help him and his value. He's not 23-24. He'll be 20 and is still yet to play a full season. He's very tactically naive, and there's a ton he can still learn. He also doesn't really have the clout to push too hard for a move.

Damnit. I said I wasn't going to go over all of this again, so now I'm annoyed with myself.

Remember though that we had similar differing opinions on Shay Facey's loan at the end of 2015 and whether or not he would come back in 2016. And Herrera has more potential then Facey

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Remember though that we had similar differing opinions on Shay Facey's loan at the end of 2015 and whether or not he would come back in 2016. And Herrera has more potential then Facey

More potential, less options. My opinion is that it's totally different when you are talking about an English kid vs. a South American.

Facey was just lacking self-awareness regarding his ability. He's marginally good bench quality in MLS, and probably too poor of a value for that to be a real option.

 

[Sabo]

If you are convinced that there is no chance that Herrera will ever play for ManCity, then it makes sense for him to go to Europe to do the best he can (like Facey). If Herrera is looking to break into ManCity, NYCFC is a good place for him to play and develop next year. PV coaching, meaningful games. I don't think he is definitely gone next season.

 

[The Toe]

If you are convinced that there is no chance that Herrera will ever play for ManCity, then it makes sense for him to go to Europe to do the best he can (like Facey). If Herrera is looking to break into ManCity, NYCFC is a good place for him to play and develop next year. PV coaching, meaningful games. I don't think he is definitely gone next season.

I think of any of the young guys that Man City has bought over the last few years, Herrera is one of the most PL-ready of them, simply on his style of play.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Let's make this easy. Why don't we spell out the players we are confident won't lose their place in the line-up, build the team around them and then determine where the holes are:

Villa - CF - No one is displacing him int he line-up
Moralez - CAM - No one is displacing him
Harrison - RW - Unless sold, he is starting
Ring - CDM - If here, he starts
Herrera - CM - If here, he starts
Chanot - First choice CB
Johnson - Goalkeeper and USMNT candidate

That's 7 of the 11 positions. You could make the argument that Callens deserves to be in that list. If Matarrita is still on this team, he's not coming off the bench. That's both CBs and your LB assumably.

So you are looking to upgrade at RB, RWB or LWB or LB depending on the formation.

Wallace? He's not going anywhere. And if here, he's starting or at least playing every game available. He makes a big difference for us.

Again I'll say it - Sweat has looked least poor when he has Wallace in front of him. In any event, I think you should pencil in LW/LM/LWB/LB (depending on formation, as you said) as a place we are fairly strong so long as Matarrita is back. If you sell him, you replace him. If not, sit tight there. And don't go and give Sweat some RJ deal.

I want a guy who fills the roles of a Giovinco/Firmino, a CF/CAM blend who we can use to create from any of the attacking positions and spell (and eventually replace) David Villa in leading the line.

 

[Kjbert]

Wallace? He's not going anywhere. And if here, he's starting or at least playing every game available. He makes a big difference for us.

Again I'll say it - Sweat has looked least poor when he has Wallace in front of him. In any event, I think you should pencil in LW/LM/LWB/LB (depending on formation, as you said) as a place we are fairly strong so long as Matarrita is back. If you sell him, you replace him. If not, sit tight there. And don't go and give Sweat some RJ deal.

I want a guy who fills the roles of a Giovinco/Firmino, a CF/CAM blend who we can use to create from any of the attacking positions and spell (and eventually replace) David Villa in leading the line.

OK. Then who does the Giovinco player replace in the line-up and where does he play? Because that's what Moralez's role is.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

If you are convinced that there is no chance that Herrera will ever play for ManCity, then it makes sense for him to go to Europe to do the best he can (like Facey). If Herrera is looking to break into ManCity, NYCFC is a good place for him to play and develop next year. PV coaching, meaningful games. I don't think he is definitely gone next season.

I don't disagree with any of this. I do think this season has been good for him and that another in MLS will only aid his growth. There are just a lot of other forces at play.

There are. I may be completely over-projecting CFG's fiduciary commitment to our club's quality. To me, at the money he's on, he's far too important to let him go when it's not at all clear he will find a better situation.

I think it's good to have kids play on teams that win. Let him learn to play the game the right way. Don't send him to relegation fodder where he's going to get beaten down and taught only to kick people. MLS will prepare him for as good of athleticism as he'll face anywhere. He's good there, but I like the idea of him having to face that challenge while overcoming his tactical limitations. Once he grows into more responsibility and game awareness to be more than a guy PV can send out to run wild and wreck shit, he will be ready for just about anything.

As it is now, he will not hold down a starter job for a decent team in any top ten league because he has a tendency to be in the wrong place or make a silly pass too often. That roaming has paid off a bit, but those other places won't suffer the mistakes as much as we will because other teams will punish them. He's really susceptible to opponents setting traps for him right now.

BTW, I'm not running him down at all. I think he can become a tremendous player. He's just not yet good enough, imo, where the situation DEMANDS he leave NYC. I'm graphing "readiness for bigger league" versus "value to NYC" versus "economic concerns", and he's in the "Keep his ass at NYC" area of my decision cube.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

OK. Then who does the Giovinco player replace in the line-up and where does he play? Because that's what Moralez's role is.

3-4-2-1 or 1-2.

Also, I think Maxi is completely passable as an 8, given his defensive work rate. Yes, he lacks physicality, but we would be looking to dominate the ball if we were Ring-Moralez-DP10(9.5).

Nothing wrong with Ring/Herrera/Maxi/New DP/Wallace/Harrison having enough cover to not have to start EVERY SINGLE MATCH.

 

[Kjbert]

3-4-2-1 or 1-2.

Also, I think Maxi is completely passable as an 8, given his defensive work rate. Yes, he lacks physicality, but we would be looking to dominate the ball if we were Ring-Moralez-DP10(9.5).

Nothing wrong with Ring/Herrera/Maxi/New DP/Wallace/Harrison having enough cover to not have to start EVERY SINGLE MATCH.

If Maxi is an 8, then you assume Herrera isn't here?

If Herrera isn't here, then why not just go out and get an 8?

 

[Ulrich]

I want a guy who fills the roles of a Giovinco/Firmino, a CF/CAM blend who we can use to create from any of the attacking positions and spell (and eventually replace) David Villa in leading the line.

OK. Then who does the Giovinco player replace in the line-up and where does he play? Because that's what Moralez's role is.

Totally agree on 10/9.5 type. I want to start monitoring Villa's minutes in future years so he isn't forced to play 90 ridiculously hard minutes every game, but we need somebody to pick up the slack as the dominant scoring threat. In MLS, if a team doesn't have the double digit scorer that can finish every cross, it isn't going to be at the top (see LA - they'd have ripped us apart if they had a CF of any ability). If it's a Firmino or Gio type, they can easily shift from creator to finisher depending on their role for the game/in the game. And having the problem of finding a formation to include them in is a good problem to have - means we have an embarrassment of riches.