It’s been really hard justifying staying in on a weekend to watch this team play. I had a engagement party at 6 and went home right after to catch the game instead of going out with people after. We are clueless in the final third.
MLS - September 25 - Red Bulls (Home)
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
We've been really good offensively up until this recent stretch, though. Obviously we're all overreacting because it's the Red Bulls and it's one win in six games, but you kind of have to throw out the previous 15 games this season to say we're clueless in the final third. This team is in the top 5 in the league in goals scored -- they're good in the final third. They're just not getting results right now.
I guess I can rephrase it to I’m not sure what exactly our game plan is. We don’t really have an identity and change to accommodate our opponent. We’re a good team with great players and should be taking it to teams not playing 5 at the back and defensive.
I agree. Yes, the stats say we aren't that bad but we seem to be inconsistent with how we play. Some games we play beautiful, flowing, passing soccer. Some games it's just a chaotic mess. Some games, it's long ball cause we have no other ideas. Is this coaching? is this the players? I think it's the coaching. Player selection matters and enforcing a standard of play/identity is the coach's job.
We have more than enough talent to pass around an aggressive press, create chances, and score. So why didn't we? Why didn't Ronny hammer into the players at halftime that long ball was not the answer? That's what I don't get.
A telltale sign of a young team is inconsistency. If you look at our starting 11 last night our average age was 26.63 which is pretty middle of the road. But if you look at our front 4 it’s 24.25 and you have to believe Maxi is inflating that number by being an outlier (granted its a small sample size of players). But realistically the team is relying on a 22 y/o Taty for a majority of their goals. He is just not going to be very consistent. And a great example of it was this spring and early summer. I just find it quite ironic that in that difficult stretch in August is when Taty was playing at his best.
Our tactics in the final third are a fair question.
Here is what I understand our tactics were on Sat night.
Here is what I understand our tactics were on Sat night.
this game made me think of this post game press conf after we played Atlanta in Atlanta and we played a lot of long ball.
It's so true. If we lose, we lose. But damn it, play our game! If they can still beat us then they deserved to win. I'd hate the loss, but I'd be ok with it. To lose the way we did, playing long ball again and again... it was heart breaking.
It's so true. If we lose, we lose. But damn it, play our game! If they can still beat us then they deserved to win. I'd hate the loss, but I'd be ok with it. To lose the way we did, playing long ball again and again... it was heart breaking.
We played a lot of long ball in our only Away win against the Red Bulls in 2017, and most everyone was pretty damn happy with it at the time. We had just lost a game to them at RBA 1-0 10 days earlier, where we could not play through the midfield or even get out of our back end. So Vieira mixed it up in the next game. It wasn't all long balls; in fact the mixing up was part of what made it work: If RB stretched forward with the press it created opening for us to win long balls, and vice versa.
I'm not arguing for long balls as a strategy. It didn't work Saturday night. Then again, nothing worked Saturday night. We were depressingly flat. But if you deny yourself strategies and tactics out of a sense of honor or courage you handicap yourself and NYCFC would have zero wins Away at RBA.
Be bold enough to use what works.
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Q: "A lot of their attack comes from forcing turnovers high up the field, and they've had success against you guys that that in the past. How did you avoid committing those turnovers committing those errors...?"
A: "... We weren't afraid to go long when we needed to."
Counting the previously mentioned Cup game, NYCFC is 1-7-2 Away against the Red Bulls all time. I'm not in favor of removing an option that gave the team its only win as a matter of principle.
Vieira spend a year-and-a-half building a play from the back culture and wasn’t concerned about adjusting it to win a specific game.
A: "... We weren't afraid to go long when we needed to."
Counting the previously mentioned Cup game, NYCFC is 1-7-2 Away against the Red Bulls all time. I'm not in favor of removing an option that gave the team its only win as a matter of principle.
Vieira spend a year-and-a-half building a play from the back culture and wasn’t concerned about adjusting it to win a specific game.
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Forgive my usual tactical ignorance, but the way red bulls played saturday night (and for that matter wednesday night too) was drastically different from how they played under Armas and Marsch... meaning that maybe under the tactics employed long balls are pretty much useless? And if that's the case, shouldn't Ronny have known that? In the Vieira example he says they switched to that method purely on the knowledge of how RB plays. Did Ronny make the. same switch against the same tactics? Or stuck it against an RB tactic that is a good counter to long balls?
This is a perfectly fine question but it’s also completely irrelevant to my post given my disclaimer.
I don't think our game is to play through everything all the time. I definitely don't think long ball is our game though.
Under Viera, we seemed to force playing out of the back more often than not and against good red bulls sides, we paid the price. Under Dome, we would play through the press but we'd also play long balls to catch teams off guard. Mixing things up in the game is what made us unpredictable and fun. Then problem is when we only do one or the other.
Viera and Dome basically say the same thing in that interview. You have to mix it up. But we seemed to do it less under Viera and more under Dome. Not sure why that is... players or coaching or just chemistry?
In this game, outside of the first 10 minutes, it was a lot of long ball after long ball when it clearly wasn't working.
the RBNJ passing map from this game. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that looks this bunched up. Looks more like dodgeball.
That was so depressing I had to wait to post.
I haven't rewatched, but it seemed to me in the stadium that they played EXACTLY the way they used to under Marsch. High aggressive press with more energy than skill (and this time inferior personnel). Occasionally you have to play out over the top, but you have to hit (or have) a target when you do. The issue for us is that we both didn't establish our game and didn't playy effectively over th top. We had huge problems playing out of the back. Yes we were outrun and outworked by a green, hustling side, but there are two other factors:
1) Parks. His ability to turn and advance the ball from ~20-25 yards out, often in heavy traffic, has been a huge part of our success when we have had it this season. It takes pressure off the back line and it forces the opposition to reset. Neither Morales nor Cacha can do that. This match really underscored his value this season and I think we've all (myself included) been taking him for granted a bit. I'm not excusing anyone for this dependency, but I don't think it is fully appreciated.
2) Sands. Up through and beyond the Gold Cup he looked like he felt confident and bulletproof. He was decisive on the ball, tight on the mark, and a destroyer on tackles. Since this first half Honduras nightmare he's seemed far less confident. I wonder if that match hasn't stuck in his head. It sure looks like it. Or maybe he's been cautious due to YA. I don't buy the fitness/tiredness in his case. Not at his age and position.
In any case, this roster should be winning matches. I've not been on the Ronny out train but he needs to figure this stuff out fast. If we exit meekly from the playoffs I imagine Ronny out will solve itself.
BTW, I still think Gudi on balance is a very solid player both ways, but in the interest of balance and reality, he got skinned on that goal.
Largly agree with everything you said. Only thing I slightly disagree on is Sands. Young or not, you can still get tired. He's had to play several different positions and thinking about where to be and how to play each time can be exhausting. Since he's gotten back from WCQs, he's mostly played as a 2nd CB in a back 4, which he's just not very good at. Add to that, being tired or whatever, and it just looks worse. Kid is definitely a shell of himself but he'll get a game off on wednesday so hopefully that'll be enough time to let him bounce back.
gudi has improved a lot over the season... a lot. i was one of his biggest critics when he first started but he's improved immensely on the defensive side of the ball. he never was a left back and it showed but he's learned. he seems to still need to learn proper 1v1 defense. he's entirely too far away from the player, which is why he got skinned. maybe he does this on purpose knowing that he's not the quickest player. I have hopes he will improve this part of his game though.
Completely agree with you. I was so low on Gudi when he first played but am impressed with his work to improve. I
Malte has been thoroughly disappointing - I think the original plan was for him to be the starting LB - and Gudi has taken his opportunity.
Gudi got skinned but still could have been cleaned up by a better read from Sands.
Gudi got skinned but still could have been cleaned up by a better read from Sands.
This tweet was the high point of Saturday night.
It does make me wonder if the Yankees post game show or the NYCFC game gets more viewers. Some how I feel like it’s the PGS…
