Portland Postmatch

[NYCFC_Dan]

This is all possible. I reached out to him on FB to get his perspective / satisfy my curiosity. To be clear, I don't support the beating or violence, and I don't support mgarbowski being abused, I just don't know that that was Joseph Bianco's intention and I support diversity on the forum.

I fully support diversity on the forum as well Chris. Main reason why him and 100 have been around as long as they have. However, he crossed the line here. Not only by what he did with making the post but also with supporting fan violence. Do we really need anyone like that here? Explains why his opinions were almost always contrary to what everyone else thought.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Chris, what you you expect him to say but to blow smoke?? If he wasn't trying to be malicious, he'd have taken down the post immediately once the vitriol started - he didn't.

Maybe he hasn't been on his phone. I suggested that clearing the air on the forum might help. Also, this is all public. HI JOSEPH.

I worry that as a forum we are so quick to jump to conclusions and hostile to people with different opinions. Regardless of what actually happened, who interpreted what as what in this situation, we seem to have an itchy trigger finger for outsiders.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I fully support diversity on the forum as well Chris. Main reason why him and 100 have been around as long as they have. However, he crossed the line here. Not only by what he did with making the post but also with supporting fan violence. Do we really need anyone like that here? Explains why his opinions were almost always contrary to what everyone else thought.

Having contrary opinions is part of what makes this forum interesting. I think there are generous and sympathetic reasons for what he did, amongst a vast field of possible explanations that cannot be narrowed down upon purely based on the facts we have in hand. It is human nature that we try to narrow down that field using heuristics that we have developed based upon our experiences. That is another term for bias. It is also in our nature, at least I like to think, to demonstrate the objectivity and integrity to question the conclusions we jump to.

 

[Lasker]

1) I'm not friends with him on FB so maybe there's more

2) exposing mgarbowski to the FB mob is extremely shitty

But

3) the one sentence caption in the FB post is ambiguous and taken by itself is actually not inconsistent with expressing support for mgarbowski 's position.

Is that what you're getting at, Christopher Jee ? Otherwise I'm not really seeing two sides to this.

 

[Christopher Jee]

1) I'm not friends with him on FB so maybe there's more

2) exposing mgarbowski to the FB mob is extremely shitty

But

3) the one sentence caption in the FB post is ambiguous and taken by itself is actually not inconsistent with expressing support for mgarbowski 's position.

Is that what you're getting at, Christopher Jee ? Otherwise I'm not really seeing two sides to this.

I can imagine him thinking that it was ok to post a link to this forum since we post links to other discussion venues on here all the time. I can imagine that he didn't think Mark was gonna get abused.

I have been talking to him on FB and I don't want to misrepresent his position, so I am only writing from my perspective. Unfortunately he's not currently able to speak for himself. So my guess is that we will believe what we want to believe, which almost certainly situates us on what we believe to be the right side of the story, congratulate ourselves for keeping the forums pure and go back to representing our unnervingly narrow slices of the population of supporters of our club.

 

[roxfontaine]

Perhaps I'm naive, but I think there are possibly generous explanations for what he did. It's not entirely obvious that he did this to invite mgarbowski to be abused on FB.

Incredibly naive.

He didn't bother to post it here because he knew there'd be no support for it. So he took it somewhere he could get "cool points". It's a trash thing to do and shameful that "men" have such low standards for decency.

 

[The Toe]

I love how these guys are so tough to gang up on someone, hide their faces and treat a scarf as a scalp. Meanwhile, they probably work some dead-end job, play FIFA for 6 hours every night and live with their parents.

 

[Lasker]

I can imagine him thinking that it was ok to post a link to this forum since we post links to other discussion venues on here all the time. I can imagine that he didn't think Mark was gonna get abused.

I have been talking to him on FB and I don't want to misrepresent his position, so I am only writing from my perspective. Unfortunately he's not currently able to speak for himself. So my guess is that we will believe what we want to believe, which almost certainly situates us on what we believe to be the right side of the story, congratulate ourselves for keeping the forums pure and go back to representing an unnervingly narrow slices of the population of supporters of our club.

I disagree with NYCFC_Dan that expressing a "stop snitching" attitude or whatever Joseph's belief is within the forum should itself be grounds for a ban, but I think taking this to FB in the way Joseph did, absent an apology, is absolutely ban-worthy. I respect your contributions here (and we usually agree) so maybe I'm missing something. Happy to talk in PM.

 

[roxfontaine]

I can imagine him thinking that it was ok to post a link to this forum since we post links to other discussion venues on here all the time. I can imagine that he didn't think Mark was gonna get abused.

I have been talking to him on FB and I don't want to misrepresent his position, so I am only writing from my perspective. Unfortunately he's not currently able to speak for himself. So my guess is that we will believe what we want to believe, which almost certainly situates us on what we believe to be the right side of the story, congratulate ourselves for keeping the forums pure and go back to representing our unnervingly narrow slices of the population of supporters of our club.

Nah, Chris. I can't accept this. As different as his opinion may have been on whatever topic, he was a member of the forum and posted his thoughts on whatever topics. Sometimes people agreed. Sometimes they didn't agree. Based on his representation of himself on these forums, people decided to engage or not but he was always welcome to post here and share his opinion.

This is a community and it should be understood that while this forum is public, we come here to share because we value the format, content and community. When you take from this context and drop it somewhere else, you are are purposefully taking something out of it's context and putting it into another one with intent. Otherwise, just address it here.

The same way he was sticking up for whatever it is he thinks is right, we have the same right to defend our community member.

 

[Christopher Jee]

I disagree with NYCFC_Dan that expressing a "stop snitching" attitude or whatever Joseph's belief is within the forum should itself be grounds for a ban, but I think taking this to FB in the way Joseph did, absent an apology, is absolutely ban-worthy. I respect your contributions here (and we usually agree) so maybe I'm missing something. Happy to talk in PM.

Appreciated.

I think he made an honest mistake and didn't anticipate the reaction. I think a lot of people had already made their minds up about him. I don't think he's able to apologize here, or was given the opportunity to represent his side of the incident. I'm disturbed by how quickly we filled in the gaps for ourselves and how happy we seemingly are to see justice dealt out like this. I think that he and others who don't quite so easily fit in here have been the subject of far more blatant abuse on these very forums.

I don't think I was naive about his intentions, but I'm happy to admit I'm generally naive. I think we all are. We could probably all stand to admit that to ourselves from time to time.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Nah, Chris. I can't accept this. As different as his opinion may have been on whatever topic, he was a member of the forum and posted his thoughts on whatever topics. Sometimes people agreed. Sometimes they didn't agree. Based on his representation of himself on these forums, people decided to engage or not but he was always welcome to post here and share his opinion.

This is a community and it should be understood that while this forum is public, we come here to share because we value the format, content and community. When you take from this context and drop it somewhere else, you are are purposefully taking something out of it's context and putting it into another one with intent. Otherwise, just address it here.

The same way he was sticking up for whatever it is he thinks is right, we have the same right to defend our community member.

I don't want us to conflate the abuse that Mark may be facing now with Joseph's intent by posting that.

I agree that it would have been better for him to address that here. But I do think that it was an innocent mistake.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Having contrary opinions is part of what makes this forum interesting. I think there are generous and sympathetic reasons for what he did, amongst a vast field of possible explanations that cannot be narrowed down upon purely based on the facts we have in hand. It is human nature that we try to narrow down that field using heuristics that we have developed based upon our experiences. That is another term for bias. It is also in our nature, at least I like to think, to demonstrate the objectivity and integrity to question the conclusions we jump to.

You're right that diverse views are good. But allowing rampant, monotonous, baseless contrarianism actually has the opposite effect in that it drives away folks interested in engaging in actual discussion. I don't see much of a reason NYCFC_Dan and this forum should host those advocating violent supporter behavior or at least attempting to chill or chide voices that speak out and oppose it.

As for what intent there could be, I don't impute an intent to injure or dox or whatever. But I don't even see that as necessary to find flaw here. I certainly think the evidence points to harassment being well within the bounds of likely outcomes, so even if not explicitly intended, it should be anticipated.

If seeking a conversation only on the merits, why not seek it here? (I see R roxfontaine beat me to the punch on this part.)

 

[Christopher Jee]

You're right that diverse views are good. But allowing rampant, monotonous, baseless contrarianism actually has the opposite effect in that it drives away folks interested in engaging in actual discussion. I don't see much of a reason NYCFC_Dan and this forum should host those advocating violent supporter behavior or at least attempting to chill or chide voices that speak out and oppose it.

As for what intent there could be, I don't impute an intent to injure or dox or whatever. But I don't even see that as necessary to find flaw here. I certainly think the evidence points to harassment being well within the bounds of likely outcomes, so even if not explicitly intended, it should be anticipated.

If seeking a conversation only on the merits, why not seek it here?

Agreed on all points. ETA: except for your characterization of his content.

Do you really think someone who copped that much abuse or derision on here would feel comfortable disagreeing with Mark on here? If you take intent or anticipation of doxing off the table, it's not surprising to me that he posted it somewhere he felt more psychological safety. Hell, there are things I worry about posting on here because I'm not sure how they'll sit with y'all. All the time.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Agreed on all points. ETA: except for your characterization of his content.

Do you really think someone who copped that much abuse or derision on here would feel comfortable disagreeing with Mark on here? If you take intent or anticipation of doxing off the table, it's not surprising to me that he posted it somewhere he felt more psychological safety. Hell, there are things I worry about posting on here because I'm not sure how they'll sit with y'all. All the time.

If you had done something similar, whatever positive intentions (I admittedly have no idea what those would be, my mind can't create them) you claimed might be more believable.

But you have relationship and reputational currency here that affords you a broader swath, and that's earned on the basis of your interactions here.

If you only want to discuss it in another medium, better choices could be made.

 

[Christopher Jee]

Also, if he tried to bring it up here, most of you wouldn't see it because you've got him on ignore.

Lol.

 

[Lasker]

Appreciated.

I think he made an honest mistake and didn't anticipate the reaction. I think a lot of people had already made their minds up about him. I don't think he's able to apologize here, or was given the opportunity to represent his side of the incident. I'm disturbed by how quickly we filled in the gaps for ourselves and how happy we seemingly are to see justice dealt out like this. I think that he and others who don't quite so easily fit in here have been the subject of far more blatant abuse on these very forums.

I don't think I was naive about his intentions, but I'm happy to admit I'm generally naive. I think we all are. We could probably all stand to admit that to ourselves from time to time.

I actually agree with you about how some other members have been driven off. We had a much better range of voices in 2015 than we do now. Notice that none of the HoO people (that I am aware of) post here anymore, for example.

That said, I'm not sure how much that applies here. Mr. Bianco seems like a bad poster boy for a true observation. From my POV it always seemed like he relished the fight and gave as good as he got, but maybe I'm wrong - I don't follow this place as closely as I used to. In part because of the increasing narrow-mindedness and toxicity that you correctly observe.

Anyway, the ever-more-negative atmosphere around here bums me out and I wish I had some good ideas for how I could contribute to making it better.

 

[dkalev]

Fuckhead. People I don't know are calling me out on Facebook cause Bianco is a fuck who supports volent shit heads.
This was a nice forum.
View attachment 7464

Hey remember when you and all your boys called him out for no reason?
Pepperidge Farm remembers

 

[dkalev]

Chris, what you you expect him to say but to blow smoke?? If he wasn't trying to be malicious, he'd have taken down the post immediately once the vitriol started - he didn't.

He ain't blowing smoke. Those guys here have him blocked for the most part, and gang up on him even when they're in the wrong and then bitch to Dan to ban him when he hits back. Try to get your head out of your ass long enough to be objective

 

[Christopher Jee]

Hey remember when you and all your boys called him out for no reason?
Pepperidge Farm remembers

Lolol

 

[dkalev]

I actually agree with you about how some other members have been driven off. We had a much better range of voices in 2015 than we do now. Notice that none of the HoO people (that I am aware of) post here anymore, for example.

That said, I'm not sure how much that applies here. Mr. Bianco seems like a bad poster boy for a true observation. From my POV it always seemed like he relished the fight and gave as good as he got, but maybe I'm wrong - I don't follow this place as closely as I used to. In part because of the increasing narrow-mindedness and toxicity that you correctly observe.

Anyway, the ever-more-negative atmosphere around here bums me out and I wish I had some good ideas for how I could contribute to making it better.

Want to make it better? Get rid of guys like mgarb and Midas who just gang up on people with differing opinions and beg Dan to ban anyone who opposes them. Weren't they just on another thread asking for Dan to start banning people who were troublemakers (read- people who argued with them because they were wrong)? Oh you can't see that because dan wiped the thread...