If they don’t make the next roster we know why lol
USMNT Talk
- Thread starter MyBoyVilla
- Start date
I hate the way this incident is just being filtered entirely through two lenses: the Gregg haters and the apologists.
Berhalter handled the issues with Reyna really well. He had buy in from the players and involved them completely. That helped the team dynamic and in getting through to Gio.
Berhalter never should have talked about this in that forum. The risk was too high that it would get out. That was a big mistake.
Both of these things can be true at the same time.
Berhalter handled the issues with Reyna really well. He had buy in from the players and involved them completely. That helped the team dynamic and in getting through to Gio.
Berhalter never should have talked about this in that forum. The risk was too high that it would get out. That was a big mistake.
Both of these things can be true at the same time.
Agree on this, the public disclosure and how he handled Gio are two completely separate matters. He could have handled the circumstances well but still f’d up by airing it publicly.
As for a third separate issue, I now would love to know more about what seems to have started all of this - Gregg telling Gio pre tournament that he wasn’t going to play much. Unless there is a very reasonable explanation - for example Gio wasn’t fit - I don’t understand the upside to that. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt that he had a plan and was simply being forthcoming about Gio’s role in that (and leaving aside that it’s hard to imagine Gio not playing a major role), that’s a very stubborn approach to a tournament which will have so many twists and turns (other teams’ tactics, other teams’ lineups, are you winning or losing, score, standings, injuries, cards, other player’s performances, etc.). There’s no reason to unnecessarily demotivate a player. That’s no excuse for Gio behaving like a brat, and maybe Gregg gave him a much more appropriate discussion than Gio revealed - but now that this is all being aired out, I am interested.
This all sucks all around.
What a load of dishonest tripe you just reposted. Nobody bother to check facts. Source:
Gio Reyna 2022-2023 Match Logs | FBref.com
Reyna played 61 minutes for Dortmund against Man City, on Sept 14. Then he played 52 against Schalke on 9/17.
Then the US "overplays" him for, checks notes, 45 minutes against Japan and just 29 against Saudi Arabia on 9/23 and 9/27.
We played him less than his club was in the immediately preceding games., but yeah, it was abusive.
ETA: His minutes in subsequent Dortmund games were in order:
9, 23, 66, 86, 30, 62, 66, 30, 45. Basically exactly the same as before the US friendlies. He missed 0 games.
That entire post is empty bullshit.
Last edited:
First, we don't know what GB actually said to Gio about playing time. We have Gio's side, and it is possible that what he heard was more harsh than what GB said.
Second, it's important to be honest and manage expectations with players. That's a big value that GB has brought to the team. It's GB's responsibility to make sure players know where they stand and aren't surprised. It's not his responsibility to sugar coat things so that they don't tank.
The big part getting lost in all the Berhalter noise is who leaked the story to the Athletic. By all accounts, the Athletic had the story before Berhalter said something (which I agree was a poor decision). Given the timing of the Athletic story coming out right when Berhalter is negotiating, my admittedly wild conspiracy theory is that the source of the Athletic article may have been someone in the Gio camp or at the very least a group within the org that wanted to undermine the Berhalter negotiations by looking like he had lockerroom issues.
I've been in the neutral on Berhalter camp but at this point I don't see how the team recovers from this with Berhalter still at the helm.
I'd like to clarify, I was posting about the second image in the post which shows the timeline. The first is some opinion piece I don't really care for.
However that being said, there's nothing "dishonest" in this part, and in fact if anything the match logs site you posted skews the data, because it doesn't include games he wasn't included in for Dortmund, it only shows the ones he played any minutes thereby making things seem a little more streamlined.
Also, he played 45 in the first international game and then only 29 because he came off due to an injury
So the numbers you wrote should actually be:
45, 29* (off from injury), 0, 0, 0, 9, 23, 66, etc... Huge difference.
He was being eased back into things by dortmund before that point, then he got re-injued while on international duty, missed three games, and then they had to ease him back in again after that.
At the time he was feeling just about fit, here's a report from just before the friendlies: Gio Reyna "feeling good" for USMNT friendlies and full Borussia Dortmund return
Gio felt ready to go, so he wanted to go to the international friendlies and Berhalter took him, and was planning on playing him. He did, probably limited minutes with request from the club ("gio was a planned sub at half time"), I don't doubt that. He was probably also going to go off at 45 of the second game, if I had to guess.
One thing Berhalter says is that lots of players were injured at the time, so they were evaluating multiple players. I can totally understand bringing Gio along, especially seeing him play 45+ in a lot of games. I don't blame him on that at all.
He was also not playing full minutes leading up to the world cup, so I think I understand berhalter's point. He was probably trying to look after the injury of the player, not necessarily "you're a bad player". Does that mean Gio or Gregg are the good guy or bad guy? no. Does that mean someone (or both) messed up somewhere along the way in the communication? yeah, probably.
I surely wouldn't risk a full 90 or even 65' on a player whose minutes leading up to the world cup were 62, 66, 30, 45... and even more so, if I were the coach in those original international friendlies, I would try to avoid playing someone who hasn't played a full 90 minutes, period. (which, like i said above, might have been hard for berhalter due to the injury crisis at the time)
--edit--
Just wanted to add, next time before you call something "bullshit", please make sure your data is also 100% accurate.
"He missed 0 games." He missed 3.
I agree and noted both in my response above. The “why” still remains as to why he wasn’t going to play Gio and why he was so certain of that before they kicked the first ball.
Prue speculation but there are very reasonable scenarios for why Berhalter knew pre-tournament that are far less controversial than are being painted online. It could have been as simple as Berhalter saying you are going to come off the bench because we can't change the attack to get you on the field as a false-9 because we don't have the time to get the tactics down. In Gio's mind, he is one of the best players on the team so any role where he isn't starting is extremely limited compared to his expectations and could have been seen by Gio as an extremely limited role.
This.
I've seen way too many folks take this as being absolutely terrible on GGG and that itself, and this coming from folks pissed that Gio didn't play enough.
This is awful from GGG for this to come out. Even if he did think this was "off the record", in this day and age, he would have to be negligbly naive to think this wouldn't come out unless he was telling this to someone he 100% trusted to keep to themselves.
For this to come out, I absolutely do not want GGG back as coach (before I didn't want him back moreso to just move to a new cycle with a new coach, but I'm swinging more into I'd be upset if he returns).
At the same time, it's abundantly clear that there were very legit reasons as to why Gio didn't receive the playing time most people wanted him to get. To act as though Gio didn't play any role in this and he's just the victim is very near-sighted.
And to add on top of that, I don't mean that to blast him and his character. He's incredibly young and I'm sure that was disappointing. He handled this very immaturely and I hope (and expect) he'll learn from this and move on. I can't say 100% certain that I would not have acted in the same way.
This as well. USMNT twitter accounts are latching onto the "very limited role" that Gio mentioned in his IG post. We have no idea what that means, but those folks definitely have ideas on what they want that to mean, and they want that to mean that GGG basically told Gio has was barely going to play at all.
For a guy like Gio's stature and quality, it could have meant he wasn't going to start all the games. Perhaps he was expecting to do so, so hearing that he wasn't going to, was "very limited" in his mind. I don't think that's a stretch.
USMNT twitter during the last several weeks has been insufferable.
all very valid points and I agree. but as others have said, the question still remains as to why GB said anything to reyna in the first place? why was one of your best players not calculated into your tactics and game strategy at all? It would seem that Gio was at least 90% able to play and played in the scrimmage where he was described as not even trying. So why would GB tell him in some way or another that he would be coming off the bench? As one of the best players on the squad and at least 90% fit, shouldn't he be in the primary plan with a secondary knowing his role if and when Gio was unable to perform?
I agree with being transparent with a player about his expected role. But it just doesn't make sense to me that you'd exclude one of your best players from your tactics before the tournament even started and then play him in a scrimmage for long enough that he could be seen as not trying. Ya Gio handled the news poorly and he's a kid and will learn from it. doesn't answer or excuse why GB excluded him in the first place.
Well it would definitely be worse if GGG didn't communicate to Gio at all about the plans for the world cup, right? If he just left him out of starting XI's and didn't say anything?
I would assume that he wasn't calculated into the tactics from the starting standpoint because GGG wanted to play an energetic counter-pressing game. Something that Gio is less skilled at than the others that started. I think that makes a ton of sense. I also can understand why some folks would disagree with that mentality and say you need to get Gio on the field and work around it. But there is absolutely a reason to not start him, whether you agree or not with that reason.
And honestly, the starting XI tactics for every game, except for maybe NED, worked fantastic. I'm not sure how we can look at the first 45 minutes of each match played and think that things really should have been drastically different from a tactics standpoint.
ETA: But it's much easier in this age of tribalism and picking a side, to just say "fuck GGG" or "Gio is a whiny baby" and not even attempt to think critically about both sides of this
My question is, and I don't think we'll get the answer, what _exactly_ did GGG say to Gio? Did he say "you're gonna have a limited role"? Did he say "You haven't been playing so well recently, so we're going to give you a limited role."? Maybe he said "You're coming back from injury and we want to be cautious, so we're going to give you a limited role"?
You can see each of these has vastly different implications on the outcome. I definitely agree that the fact Berhalter told him something at all had to be done, but we just don't know what exactly word-for-word was said, and therefore there's a HUGE piece of context missing from the puzzle.
Agree with you on this absolutely.
But depending on what "side" you're on, you've already decided what exactly the answer to that first question is. (not saying you specifically, but the general, broad, you).
Nobody wants to figure out what exactly was said. Everyone has already decided to interpret based on incredibly limited information so they can be mad in a way that supports their previous stances.
of course. he should have told Gio his plans prior as he should with every player.
Agree about the starting lineup. For Gio to come in, we would have had to remove sergeant or weah. Both were huge contributors to the success of the team in the group stages.
No one knows what was actually said and personally I don't care. it was GB's job to tell Gio what's goin on, as he should with every player and Gio's job as a pro, to take it maturely as the coach's plan. But he's a kid, so his reaction is not entirely unexpected. But starting ferreira when Sergeant was injured is my huge WTF question. by that time, was Gio not forgiven?
As my post above points out, GGG during the september friendlies had planned subs for gio at half time. We don't know why 100%, but it's likely bc of the injury concerns at the time, and that directive probably came from Dortmund or the USMNT staff. Then he got injured again, missed 3 games, and then was eased back, never playing close to a full 90 before the WC.
I think it all points to injury-related time reduction, but we won't know for certain, nor do I claim that this is 100% the reason.
Read above on my thoughts on that
I’m in the camp of IDGF what happened or what was said. But there’s now a big issue and both parties can’t continue on the USMNT. It was probably time for GGG to move on anyway. And you can’t replace GIO. So that’s that. And already being in the GGG out camp, I’m not complaining. But would say the same if I originally wanted him to stay. Can’t wait for the next match to see their form and new coach. And especially copa America!! Want to attend a few matches for that one for sure.
Man - I wish we knew if these players were liking the tweet because they accept Gio's apology and want to see him grow as a person/player or if it's a sign they are siding with Gio in the great GGG/Gio war. Probably a mix of both and neither...
Personally, I think this 'feud' is fueled more by fans' dislike of Berhalter than the substance of what went on. I'm just looking forward to Morocco winning the World Cup, US Soccer tries to emulate them by hiring Jim Curtin and the average USMNT fan flipping out when they read his Wikipedia page and figure out he's another MLS coach.
Last edited:
Similar threads
