CFG Out

Midas Mulligan

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I mean, I know Puma doesn't quite have the revenues of Adidas, but you'd think they could scrape together more than $650 for the deal.
For real. New balance is going to pay Liverpool more than 70 million pounds for next year. When you time value that deal and add in all the other stuff, you get a great sense of just how small Man City is compared to real global clubs. They have a lot of followers. They don’t have that many fans.

Also, I’m pissed about how my thread about CFG being shit has been turned into an argument about how cool and tough CFG+MCFC is.

Frankly, nothing I’ve read changes my point. It only strengthens it.

ETA: and don’t even get me into how much it’s different to have followers. It’s way diffferent. It’s why City isn’t a draw for ICC. There is no emotional connection for most people.


And again, I’m being complicit in people hikacking my thread. Damnit. Yall do you in pl. but let’s get CFG the f out of MLS.
 
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Christopher Jee

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ETA: and don’t even get me into how much it’s different to have followers. It’s way diffferent. It’s why City isn’t a draw for ICC. There is no emotional connection for most people.


And again, I’m being complicit in people hikacking my thread. Damnit. Yall do you in pl. but let’s get CFG the fuck out of
MLS.
How do you think that emotional connection comes about? And what do you think a high-level, throwing-shit-at-the-wall roadmap for getting CFG out of MLS looks like?
 

Seth

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How do you think that emotional connection comes about? And what do you think a high-level, throwing-shit-at-the-wall roadmap for getting CFG out of MLS looks like?
I think it’s like the Yankees, the Cowboys, Man United, Barca, etc. Once teams have a long-term record of success it goes beyond their actual local fans and turns into a movement that people want to be a part of. That’s why everyone’s a little uncomfortable with where City is at the moment. It’s like they’re their but perhaps it hasn’t been long enough to really trust it yet. Maybe it has to get past the point where folks are saying it’s a new thing but not really the way things will stay. Heck, I’m a City fan and even *I* don’t quite believe it’ll last.

It’s kind of like the Mets and the Yankees. 27 championships versus a once a decade World Series appearance. Even in years when the Mets outdraw the Yankees they’re still the second team. It’s going to take 25 years and 10 championships before that might start to change, if that’s even enough. Perhaps City is in a similar situation.

Is CFG for real? Who knows? But we’ve only been a team for five years so maybe it’s just way too early to tell what we actually are.
 

Midas Mulligan

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How do you think that emotional connection comes about? And what do you think a high-level, throwing-shit-at-the-wall roadmap for getting CFG out of MLS looks like?
That’s a greatquestion. I don’t know how we do it other than just boycotting matches/ticket buying. Maybe we look at Chivas LA and reverse engineer it.

And after that, we can take on SUM controlling USSF.
 
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Midas Mulligan

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I think it’s like the Yankees, the Cowboys, Man United, Barca, etc. Once teams have a long-term record of success it goes beyond their actual local fans and turns into a movement that people want to be a part of. That’s why everyone’s a little uncomfortable with where City is at the moment. It’s like they’re their but perhaps it hasn’t been long enough to really trust it yet. Maybe it has to get past the point where folks are saying it’s a new thing but not really the way things will stay. Heck, I’m a City fan and even *I* don’t quite believe it’ll last.

It’s kind of like the Mets and the Yankees. 27 championships versus a once a decade World Series appearance. Even in years when the Mets outdraw the Yankees they’re still the second team. It’s going to take 25 years and 10 championships before that might start to change, if that’s even enough. Perhaps City is in a similar situation.

Is CFG for real? Who knows? But we’ve only been a team for five years so maybe it’s just way too early to tell what we actually are.
This is interesting. Does it work for Chelsea or PSG? I don’t know. My inclination is it hasn’t fully taken there either.

I think if it’s going to happen, it may just have to happen over generations.

Another interesting thing to think about would be whether there needs to be more of a rollercoaster of results. By that I mean people need to have some suffering. So cyclically, you gain some fans with drama (like City’s first title), then lose n% with droughts. And over time, it builds up to feel less (I hate using this term, but will as a heuristic shortcut) “plastic”.

In short, I think CFG is certainly for real about Man City. Everything they do there from a football perspective, putting aside sportswashing or violating sort of tangential competition rules, is absolutely on point. Look no further than who they went out and hired to effectuate success. They gutted the staff of the most successful club of this century. Then they’ve fully backed them. You literally can’t do more, because they’ve already done more (see documented and alleged violations).

But for NYCFC, I think they’ve given us mostly contra-indicators about being for real. And that’s whats under my skin here. If they were for real, there would be no stopping them. We’d see the same ruthlessness and dedication to creating a culture of commitment (ie, the “Barca Way”) that they exhibit re: MCFC. Put aside moral concerns about the ownership of CFG, and just look at objectively. We have in one place, an example of what it looks like when the leadership of CFG is committed to success. Then we have NYCFC and everywhere else they are involved, and none of them to my knowledge look anything like that. Especially not here, not on what I’ve seeen.
 

Christopher Jee

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I think it’s like the Yankees, the Cowboys, Man United, Barca, etc. Once teams have a long-term record of success it goes beyond their actual local fans and turns into a movement that people want to be a part of. That’s why everyone’s a little uncomfortable with where City is at the moment. It’s like they’re their but perhaps it hasn’t been long enough to really trust it yet. Maybe it has to get past the point where folks are saying it’s a new thing but not really the way things will stay. Heck, I’m a City fan and even *I* don’t quite believe it’ll last.

It’s kind of like the Mets and the Yankees. 27 championships versus a once a decade World Series appearance. Even in years when the Mets outdraw the Yankees they’re still the second team. It’s going to take 25 years and 10 championships before that might start to change, if that’s even enough. Perhaps City is in a similar situation.

Is CFG for real? Who knows? But we’ve only been a team for five years so maybe it’s just way too early to tell what we actually are.
This idea of long term success in no way defines my emotional connection to Leeds, sadly :sweatsmile:
 

Christopher Jee

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Part of me wonders if CFG has soured somewhat on their relationship with MLS as an organization.
Interesting. What gives you that impression? If that were the case I'd maybe expect them to be investing in other football. USL? NWSL?
 

Christopher Jee

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This is interesting. Does it work for Chelsea or PSG? I don’t know. My inclination is it hasn’t fully taken there either.

I think if it’s going to happen, it may just have to happen over generations.

Another interesting thing to think about would be whether there needs to be more of a rollercoaster of results. By that I mean people need to have some suffering. So cyclically, you gain some fans with drama (like City’s first title), then lose n% with droughts. And over time, it builds up to feel less (I hate using this term, but will as a heuristic shortcut) “plastic”.

In short, I think CFG is certainly for real about Man City. Everything they do there from a football perspective, putting aside sportswashing or violating sort of tangential competition rules, is absolutely on point. Look no further than who they went out and hired to effectuate success. They gutted the staff of the most successful club of this century. Then they’ve fully backed them. You literally can’t do more, because they’ve already done more (see documented and alleged violations).

But for NYCFC, I think they’ve given us mostly contra-indicators about being for real. And that’s whats under my skin here. If they were for real, there would be no stopping them. We’d see the same ruthlessness and dedication to creating a culture of commitment (ie, the “Barca Way”) that they exhibit re: MCFC. Put aside moral concerns about the ownership of CFG, and just look at objectively. We have in one place, an example of what it looks like when the leadership of CFG is committed to success. Then we have NYCFC and everywhere else they are involved, and none of them to my knowledge look anything like that. Especially not here, not on what I’ve seeen.
Re: ups and downs - absolutely. This is very much how tech companies build addictive interactions. In a nutshell, a variable reward makes you more likely to commit an action (e.g. invest emotionally). Constant rewards are normalized quickly.

Re: lack of commitment to NYCFC - said before but I think they are only investing as much as they need to to stay relevant and wait til MLS is large enough to warrant further investment for reputation laundering. Is there some kind of shorthand for this? Riding the tailwind and waiting for the final straight?
 

Midas Mulligan

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Part of me wonders if CFG has soured somewhat on their relationship with MLS as an organization.
Really? Because I've kind of figured that they made a calculated long-term investment in MLS/SUM because that's the extent of their interest. It's sort of akin to buying an apartment building in an up & coming neighborhood. Having to run a team here is just an unfortunate, unavoidable maintenance expense to have a little cashflow now while you wait for the real return.
 

Christopher Jee

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Really? Because I've kind of figured that they made a calculated long-term investment in MLS/SUM because that's the extent of their interest. It's sort of akin to buying an apartment building in an up & coming neighborhood. Having to run a team here is just an unfortunate, unavoidable maintenance expense to have a little cashflow now while you wait for the real return.
Haha there's another analogy. But yeah that's what I was trying to express.
 

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Really? Because I've kind of figured that they made a calculated long-term investment in MLS/SUM because that's the extent of their interest. It's sort of akin to buying an apartment building in an up & coming neighborhood. Having to run a team here is just an unfortunate, unavoidable maintenance expense to have a little cashflow now while you wait for the real return.
Interesting. What gives you that impression? If that were the case I'd maybe expect them to be investing in other football. USL? NWSL?
Yeah, I'm sure you're both right. I'm just curious if CFG get frustrated / bored in leagues where they can't just spend whatever they want.
 

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Yeah, I'm sure you're both right. I'm just curious if CFG get frustrated / bored in leagues where they can't just spend whatever they want.
I doubt it. It's an investment that will take time to bring in the revenue they probably want, and I'm sure they know that. You have to imagine that everyone sees the USA as a goldmine when it comes to sports investment. Revenues, TV deals, merch sales are almost always going up. We have a WWC, Gold Cup and CLON this year, which will give a bump to MLS, I hope, and give a small look into the future once the USMNT rebounds and wins some fans back. These front offices are full of guys smarter than anyone on the boards, and they know the potential of their investment in one of the few untapped soccer markets left.
 
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gbservis

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Yeah, I'm sure you're both right. I'm just curious if CFG get frustrated / bored in leagues where they can't just spend whatever they want.
The strange thing in our case is they can spend whatever they want on DP spots yet they haven't really maxed them out. Atlanta just proved that even within the confines of the MLS roster rules out spending the rest of the league in the spots where its allowed is a good way to quickly win a trophy.
 
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Keith Putnam

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The strange thing in our case is they can spend whatever they want on DP spots yet they haven't really maxed them out.
Yes, this is what I'm getting at. It would take relative chump change for CFG to bring in three league-breaking DPs (with the caveat of said league-breakers being willing to play here no matter how huge their salaries) and combine that with expert curation of the rest of the roster (throwing money at elite sporting directors) to to give them maximum support.

That CFG has not done this means they either lack the will or the means.

I'm sure it's much more on the "will" end of things, but now and then I speculate about the possibility of it being a means issue, and what form that might take.
 

Christopher Jee

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Yes, this is what I'm getting at. It would take relative chump change for CFG to bring in three league-breaking DPs (with the caveat of said league-breakers being willing to play here no matter how huge their salaries) and combine that with expert curation of the rest of the roster (throwing money at elite sporting directors) to to give them maximum support.

That CFG has not done this means they either lack the will or the means.

I'm sure it's much more on the "will" end of things, but now and then I speculate about the possibility of it being a means issue, and what form that might take.
Atlanta's already doing the heavy lifting when it comes to increasing the desirability of the neighborhood. Why not save our money (not to mention *AM) for when it will go further. Or in the case of Man City and the eyeballs drawn by the Premier League, where.