Video Assistant Referee

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LionNYC

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If you want a two-minute stoppage every time someone gets kicked in the nuts, I'm sure there's a sport or pastime out there for you somewhere but I'm sorry, it's not football.

The glorious, spontaneous imperfection of football was what made me fall in love with it when I was a kid. It's hilarious, infuriating, brilliantly unfair. Now apparently people want to take the most exciting, controversial, heated parts of the game and hand them over to a guy in a truck outside the stadium. Why?
Give me two minutes of review during the game rather than a lifetime of hating referees.
 

Gotham Gator

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Give me two minutes of review during the game rather than a lifetime of hating referees.
Two minutes of review every third game.

Honestly. This conversation is so fucking stupid. With all the games last night there was one overturned call. Some people want to take those two minutes and act like they were the only thing that happened.
 

Ulrich

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If you want a two-minute stoppage every time someone gets kicked in the nuts, I'm sure there's a sport or pastime out there for you somewhere but I'm sorry, it's not football.

The glorious, spontaneous imperfection of football was what made me fall in love with it when I was a kid. It's hilarious, infuriating, brilliantly unfair. Now apparently people want to take the most exciting, controversial, heated parts of the game and hand them over to a guy in a truck outside the stadium. Why?
There's already a 2 min stoppage every time a player acts like they're hurt. If you hate VAR and don't hate the ACTING, then there's another venue to enjoy on Broadway.
 

mgarbowski

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Two minutes of review every third game.

Honestly. This conversation is so fucking stupid. With all the games last night there was one overturned call. Some people want to take those two minutes and act like they were the only thing that happened.

Two minutes of review every third game.

Honestly. This conversation is so fucking stupid. With all the games last night there was one overturned call. Some people want to change the game by pretending changing one call every 7 games will have any impact on fairness or officiating quality.
 
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Tom in Fairfield CT

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It's not about the two minutes, but I think you guys know that. It's that a goal is not a goal when it goes in anymore. It's that the last two minutes of play might not count because they are going to look at a foul on video. It's about referees not calling borderline penalties on the field anymore because they know it will be reviewed.
 
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JGarrettLieb

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It's not about the two minutes, but I think you guys know that. It's that a goal is not a goal when it goes in anymore. It's that the last two minutes of play might not count because they are going to look at a foul on video. It's about referees not calling borderline penalties on the field anymore because they know it will be reviewed.
So you mean the game is more likely to be decided based on each team's merits on the run of play? Sounds just fine to me.
 

ManhattanValley

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So you mean the game is more likely to be decided based on each team's merits on the run of play? Sounds just fine to me.
Why not just get the VAR refs to add up each team's FIFA ratings before the game and award the victory before kickoff?

Personally I find it exciting when things don't follow the script, or when the run of play is occasionally unpredictable. That includes inaccurate refereeing decisions which may enhance or ruin my afternoon depending on the way they go. And I don't see an urgent need to eradicate that at the expense of game flow.
 

Ulrich

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It's not about the two minutes, but I think you guys know that. It's that a goal is not a goal when it goes in anymore. It's that the last two minutes of play might not count because they are going to look at a foul on video. It's about referees not calling borderline penalties on the field anymore because they know it will be reviewed.
If we had VAR earlier in the season, NYCFC would have had min 3 more pk's called in their favor and likely 5ish more pts. I'll take that any day.
 

ManhattanValley

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Looking forward to certain teams' fans using decisions that went their way as proof that the VAR system works flawlessly (and vice versa for those where decisions go against them
If we had VAR earlier in the season, NYCFC would have had min 3 more pk's called in their favor and likely 5ish more pts. I'll take that any day.
Omg it's happening already!
 
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ManhattanValley

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You're still here? You better get to the TKTS line now if you want good seats today, being a fan of acting and embellishment. Run along now!
I.....genuinely (genuinely!) don't understand where this has come from but are you trying to burn someone by suggesting they......go to the theater? :D
 

Ulrich

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I.....genuinely (genuinely!) don't understand where this has come from but are you trying to burn someone by suggesting they......go to the theater? :D
You don't read very well, do you?
There's already a 2 min stoppage every time a player acts like they're hurt. If you hate VAR and don't hate the ACTING, then there's another venue to enjoy on Broadway.
the "burn" isn't because Broadway shows are enjoyable, the "burn" is because you apparently enjoy embellishment over the virtue and legitimacy of a competition.
 

ManhattanValley

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You don't read very well, do you?

the "burn" isn't because Broadway shows are enjoyable, the "burn" is because you apparently enjoy embellishment over the virtue and legitimacy of a competition.
I think I've already made it pretty clear that I'm generally not a fan of anything that slows down the game. So not sure where that comes from. But in the interests of making myself extra clear, I've never said I "enjoy embellishment", nor would I ever say that. Because that would be really weird.
 

Christopher Jee

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Why not just get the VAR refs to add up each team's FIFA ratings before the game and award the victory before kickoff?

Personally I find it exciting when things don't follow the script, or when the run of play is occasionally unpredictable. That includes inaccurate refereeing decisions which may enhance or ruin my afternoon depending on the way they go. And I don't see an urgent need to eradicate that at the expense of game flow.
Nobody is saying they don't enjoy the unpredictable. There is plenty of off-script and unpredictable action without poor refereeing. Being able to be unpredictable is probably one of the core elements that constitutes quality above a certain foundational threshold.

I see it this way - the rules of the game are designed to enable teams to compete in a way that all parties find pleasing. VAR and other innovations in the sport are intended to enforce those rules and hence enforce a more pleasing game, and eradicate elements of the game that improve competition in ways that aren't so pleasing. Bad refereeing decisions constitute a competitive edge that is based on the ability of teams to exert their quality outside of the rules of the game. If this edge is reduced by VAR, teams will have to find this edge by improving in ways that are compatible with the rules, which crafted as they are to maximize our enjoyment of the sport, should make the game more entertaining.

There may be some short term pain for what may be gained. It may not work at all. But trying it out will leave us in a better position to make yet more improvements. Over time, I expect the game will improve.
 
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ManhattanValley

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Bad refereeing decisions constitute a competitive edge that is based on the ability of teams to exert their quality outside of the rules of the game. If this edge is reduced by VAR, teams will have to find this edge by improving in ways that are compatible with the rules
Huh? Every team benefits (and suffers) from bad ref decisions. Only conspiracy theorists and people with bad coping skills think certain teams are somehow using them to get a competitive edge.

I'm all for trying out VAR and all its pitfalls if there's an existential threat to the game I'm missing that urgently needs to be stamped out. But I don't see it. Football already seems pretty awesome to me.
 
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Christopher Jee

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Huh? Every team benefits (and suffers) from bad ref decisions. Only conspiracy theorists and people with bad coping skills think certain teams are somehow using them to get a competitive edge.

I'm all for trying out VAR and all its pitfalls if there's an existential threat to the game I'm missing that urgently needs to be stamped out. But I don't see it. Football already seems pretty awesome to me.
Even if it's neutral (which I don't believe but haven't investigated), it's outside of the rules of the game and can ruin outcomes in important matches where the hypothesized neutralizing effect of many matches being played does not apply.

If we both agree that it's a competitive edge, neutral or otherwise, then the fact that it's evenly distributed is still a problem. Imagine if all teams were playing for 2 points instead of 3 and that the remaining 1 point were to be divided equally. This means that the totals at the end of the season are 1/3 noise and 2/3 signal. Reducing that noise is essentially improving the incentive for teams to compete in a pleasing way.
 
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JGarrettLieb

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Why not just get the VAR refs to add up each team's FIFA ratings before the game and award the victory before kickoff?

Personally I find it exciting when things don't follow the script, or when the run of play is occasionally unpredictable. That includes inaccurate refereeing decisions which may enhance or ruin my afternoon depending on the way they go. And I don't see an urgent need to eradicate that at the expense of game flow.

The only way our opinions on the matter could be so diametrically opposed is to have completely different beliefs of what soccer is, was and should be as a game and method of entertainment. This likely derives from starkly differing worldviews that I have zero desire to take the time to delve into.

I completely disagree with you, and likely disagree with you on a significant number of other issues.

That said, your opinion is completely valid. I'm just glad that your opinion is not shared by the people actually in charge of the game.
 

SoupInNYC

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Even if it's neutral (which I don't believe but haven't investigated), it's outside of the rules of the game and can ruin outcomes in important matches where the hypothesized neutralizing effect of many matches being played does not apply.

If we both agree that it's a competitive edge, neutral or otherwise, then the fact that it's evenly distributed is still a problem. Imagine if all teams were playing for 2 points instead of 3 and that the remaining 1 point were to be divided equally. This means that the totals at the end of the season are 1/3 noise and 2/3 signal. Reducing that noise is essentially improving the incentive for teams to compete in a pleasing way.
And furthermore, if bad refeering decisions did happen to even out for every team across the season, then sure, the net effect is 0.

But we play in a league where the champion is determined in the playoffs, and ultimately a final match. Imagine if we played in the final and had a PK call like against Chicago missed and lost.

There will be some frustrations with VAR at first, but it will get smoother and ultimately lead to final scores better representing what occurred on the pitch.