2016 Presidential Election

[Nick_nycfcfan]

Didn't see a thread yet for this, just for Sanders.. But I wasn't feeling the Bern.

Anyway, this is surely one of the most interesting elections, at any level, in recent memory.

Any thoughts? Anyone you guys want to see win?

I'm pulling for Trump!

 

[FootyLovin]

Thoughts: Hell, meet handbasket. Handbasket, meet Hell. Welcome you both to Amuricah.

I will now officially never return to this thread.

Hey moderators, is there a way to block threads?

No offense Nicholas Constantino I'm almost up to my 100th day clean (i.e., avoiding politics) and life has been better.

 

[SFphoto]

The state of American politics is an absolute circus. I can't believe these are the best candidates we have to offer. Pretty embarrassing to be honest.

 

[Albany_NYCFC]

Wholeheartedly agree with FootyLovin except that I am totally invested in the process but come here to get away from politics. Let's keep it that way.

 

[Nick_nycfcfan]

Well sorry guys. I'll delete my thread then thanks for the heads up!

Can't figure out how to delete it so a moderator or someone that knows better go ahead

 

[BossNYC]

Donald Trump is actually pretty brilliant but in an abstract way.

I really am impressed by him at this point.

I was among the people that said he would get half a percentage point and laughed and said it can't be serious, he'sjust plugging his businesses.

In fact, I'vespent his entire campaign thus far trying to figure out what he's really up to here and I'm fairly convinced: he just wants to be President of the USA.

I mean, he's created an atmosphere where he's essentially never wrong to his voters. If he's wrong or doesn't appear to know what he's doing, he embraces it and says it's because he's an outsider like one of us. Then, all the rage from Democrats and Republicans he builds up by shooting from the hip, he points to and says, "see? I'm obviously an outsider. They hate me."

Combine that with the fact that he's charismatic and disarming with his tough but kinda dopey personality and you have a candidate that's been unstoppable so far.

That's to say nothing of the fact that he knows how to play the game with the media. He knows that he can make the media drown America in Trump-mania.

The guy also, obviously keeps up with politics and has for a while, that's why I now believe the guy is just legitimately interested in being POTUS like anyone else is.

 

[NYCFC_Dan]

Your thread is fine. However people on here do tend to stray from political and religious discussion.

 

[Capt.Tsubasa]

◟(◔ั₀◔ั )◞ ༘♡ ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨

 

[jerseyhotspur]

 

[Lasker]

◟(◔ั₀◔ั )◞ ༘♡ ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨

I didn't think it was possible that I would feel anything but regret after opening this thread, but you proved me wrong. Well done.

 

[Keith Putnam]

It's vitally important that everyone read Hunter S. Thompson's "Fear And Loathing On The Campaign Trail '72".

 

[ferrarinycfc]

Im not sure what angle Trump is playing in this election.

Things looked grim when i was in the USA in 2010 after the GFC. Last month when i was there, things looked so much better.

I understand the hatred to politicians as thats given just about everywhere, but am i missing something that you guys who live there know ?

 

[JCMore]

Im not sure what angle Trump is playing in this election.

Things looked grim when i was in the USA in 2010 after the GFC. Last month when i was there, things looked so much better.

I understand the hatred to politicians as thats given just about everywhere, but am i missing something that you guys who live there know ?

Bigotry

 

[FootyLovin]

Im not sure what angle Trump is playing in this election.

Things looked grim when i was in the USA in 2010 after the GFC. Last month when i was there, things looked so much better.

I understand the hatred to politicians as thats given just about everywhere, but am i missing something that you guys who live there know ?

If you are actually looking for a serious answer, I will do my best to offer objective views on some of the many factors contributing to the rise of Trump.

• Bigotry. As JCMore said, there is a lot of bigotry. The old white male demographic is shrinking. That's scary to them and Trump speaks to their fears.
• Marketing. Trump is a master at branding. From his own name to Lyin' Ted, he does an exceptional job of figuring out a message that sticks and hammering it repeatedly. Human brains are very bad at dismissing messages that they hear over and over. This is why those who listen to a single news station and heard the same POV over and over again come to believe that POV is FACT, even if evidence is later offered to the contrary.
• Change. When one party has been in power for 2 cycles, for a variety of reasons, Americans start to feel the grass might be greener on the other side. In any other time you should expect the White House to change party after two terms. This year that change just happens to favor Trump.
• Media. Following on the repetition theme above, the more media exposure a candidate gets, the more people will feel they trust that person. Trump is great for ratings. So the news networks give him enormous amounts of time. There is zero sense in the media of being responsible for informing the public. Media is 100% driven by money and attracting eyeballs. Like him or not, when news shows feature Trump, they draw more eyeballs.
• Prom. Just 16 years ago we elected a man, many of whom voted for him because he seemed like a guy they could have a beer with. While many in this country vote based on the knowledge skills and abilities that would make the best President, many others based on a gut feel about the candidate. There's little doubt that Trump is winning the "have a beer with" contest.
• Clinton. I don't think there has ever been a candidate who stoked so much hate from the other side. So while you have "anyone but Trump" voters, you also have "anyone but Clinton" voters.
• FOX. Related to the Clinton topic and the change topic. A lot of people have spent the last 8 years watching FOX News. For eight years they have heard a story of how the US is in decline and how Obama and Clinton are to blame. And I would say "decline" is putting it mildly. This is a network that has done all it can to stoke hate and fear over the total destruction of "Conservative America."
• Fear. Dark emotions sell. Trump is selling a lot of fear and hate. The human brain, when placed in a state of anxiety, stress, fear stops effectively processing logical, factual information. It moves into fight or flight protective mode. Trump portrays the role of the father figure, the protector. Again there's psychological research that in fear state, humans seek a father/protector figure.
• Party. Americans root for their political parties like we root for our sports teams. As a sports fan I have struggled many times with the question how can I root for these athletes who are (depending on which team I was following at any time) rich spoiled brats, criminals, wife beaters, etc. Most of the time I still found a way to root for my team. We do the same with politics. 80-90% of the votes are determined by whether the voters have a D or an R on their jersey.
• Promises. Trump has promised to fix everything. And not just fix everything, but make it great. Make it the best it's ever been. And he's claimed in various ways that no one else can fix things the way he can. That he's the best fixer. If you believe him, that's a compelling message.
• Policy. I think this is a pretty small subset on both sides of the aisle. But there are those who have looked at the actual policy suggestions he has offered and think these will make their lives better.

For the record I consider myself an Independent. I register either Republican or Democrat depending on the election and which primary I want to influence. As I said at the top, I did my best to keep this objective.

ETA: One significant piece I missed.

• Jobs. There are a significant number of Americans who are feeling economical pain. While our official unemployment rate is low right now, there are many ways the stats on the economy can be manipulated to make it look like either a great economy or a lousy economy. As with so many topics, people will believe what they want to believe. On the left people believe that the economy is burdened by the diminishing value of a minimum wage that hasn't kept up with productivity or inflation and by the Republicans killing infrastructure projects in Congress the last eight years. On the right people believe the economy is burdened by Obamacare and the wealthy being unable to hire more people because the taxes they pay are too high. Add to that issues like international trade agreements that economists with PhDs have difficulty parsing and there is plenty of room for any candidate to sell a message of their economic plan being better for anyone feeling financial pain. It just so happens that the jobs issue favors the Republicans in this cycle because, again, you would expect this to be a change election after 8 years of one party in the White House. (Consider the fact that this issue massively favored the change candidate within the Democratic primary and you start to see the power of this dynamic.)

 

[JCMore]

If you are actually looking for a serious answer, I will do my best to offer objective views on some of the many factors contributing to the rise of Trump.

• Bigotry. As JCMore said, there is a lot of bigotry. The old white male demographic is shrinking. That's scary to them and Trump speaks to their fears.
• Marketing. Trump is a master at branding. From his own name to Lyin' Ted, he does an exceptional job of figuring out a message that sticks and hammering it repeatedly. Human brains are very bad at dismissing messages that they hear over and over. This is why those who listen to a single news station and heard the same POV over and over again come to believe that POV is FACT, even if evidence is later offered to the contrary.
• Change. When one party has been in power for 2 cycles, for a variety of reasons, Americans start to feel the grass might be greener on the other side. In any other time you should expect the White House to change party after two terms. This year that change just happens to favor Trump.
• Media. Following on the repetition theme above, the more media exposure a candidate gets, the more people will feel they trust that person. Trump is great for ratings. So the news networks give him enormous amounts of time. There is zero sense in the media of being responsible for informing the public. Media is 100% driven by money and attracting eyeballs. Like him or not, when news shows feature Trump, they draw more eyeballs.
• Prom. Just 16 years ago we elected a man, many of whom voted for him because he seemed like a guy they could have a beer with. While many in this country vote based on the knowledge skills and abilities that would make the best President, many others based on a gut feel about the candidate. There's little doubt that Trump is winning the "have a beer with" contest.
• Clinton. I don't think there has ever been a candidate who stoked so much hate from the other side. So while you have "anyone but Trump" voters, you also have "anyone but Clinton" voters.
• FOX. Related to the Clinton topic and the change topic. A lot of people have spent the last 8 years watching FOX News. For eight years they have heard a story of how the US is in decline and how Obama and Clinton are to blame. And I would say "decline" is putting it mildly. This is a network that has done all it can to stoke hate and fear over the total destruction of "Conservative America."
• Fear. Dark emotions sell. Trump is selling a lot of fear and hate. The human brain, when placed in a state of anxiety, stress, fear stops effectively processing logical, factual information. It moves into fight or flight protective mode. Trump portrays the role of the father figure, the protector. Again there's psychological research that in fear state, humans seek a father/protector figure.
• Party. Americans root for their political parties like we root for our sports teams. As a sports fan I have struggled many times with the question how can I root for these athletes who are (depending on which team I was following at any time) rich spoiled brats, criminals, wife beaters, etc. Most of the time I still found a way to root for my team. We do the same with politics. 80-90% of the votes are determined by whether the voters have a D or an R on their jersey.
• Promises. Trump has promised to fix everything. And not just fix everything, but make it great. Make it the best it's ever been. And he's claimed in various ways that no one else can fix things the way he can. That he's the best fixer. If you believe him, that's a compelling message.
• Policy. I think this is a pretty small subset on both sides of the aisle. But there are those who have looked at the actual policy suggestions he has offered and think these will make their lives better.

For the record I consider myself an Independent. I register either Republican or Democrat depending on the election and which primary I want to influence. As I said at the top, I did my best to keep this objective.

ETA: One significant piece I missed.

• Jobs. There are a significant number of Americans who are feeling economical pain. While our official unemployment rate is low right now, there are many ways the stats on the economy can be manipulated to make it look like either a great economy or a lousy economy. As with so many topics, people will believe what they want to believe. On the left people believe that the economy is burdened by the diminishing value of a minimum wage that hasn't kept up with productivity or inflation and by the Republicans killing infrastructure projects in Congress the last eight years. On the right people believe the economy is burdened by Obamacare and the wealthy being unable to hire more people because the taxes they pay are too high. Add to that issues like international trade agreements that economists with PhDs have difficulty parsing and there is plenty of room for any candidate to sell a message of their economic plan being better for anyone feeling financial pain. It just so happens that the jobs issue favors the Republicans in this cycle because, again, you would expect this to be a change election after 8 years of one party in the White House. (Consider the fact that this issue massively favored the change candidate within the Democratic primary and you start to see the power of this dynamic.)

Damn that was a very good over view. Now I feel bad about the one word reply. But that was a very good analysis. When ever anyone asks me about the election the word Bigotry comes to mind most for me. I personally don't like talking politics as much any more, but I feel like we as a nation need to get a better clue of our own demographics and make sure everyone is getting a piece of the pie.
Sorry for the dick response ferrarinycfc

 

[mgarbowski]

A "hyuge" part of Trump's appeal is that -- unlike the leadership of both parties and most political commentators -- he doesn't tell his supporters that they are deluded about how the economy isn't working for them or call them bigots. It really is that simple. Whether you think they are deluded or bigots matters less. He talks to them as if their concerns matter, which both parties fail at miserably, and they usually accompany it with sneering condescension. For that and sometimes that alone they trust him. I don't but they do. That Trump is really concerned with himself and has no ideological moorings or loyalty to any ideals seems not to matter. It is also important to understand that his supporters are not the Tea Party. If the Tea Party chose the Republican nominee it would be Cruz, Rubio or Walker. Nor is this a particularly socially conservative coalition. If the SoCons chose the nominee it might be one of those three or Huckabee. Trump supporters don't care much about abortion, bathrooms, or marriage issues. Clearly neither does he. To the extent they do care about that stuff they are satisfied again, someone who doesn't sneer at them for what they believe, and who forthrightly says he is on their side, without redefining what their side is. Democrats tell these people "we'll fight for you on a,b,c but you have to drop x, y and z because those are icky." Republicans say "we'll fight for you on x, y and z but when it comes to a,b and c what you really want is 1, 2 and 3." Trump say I'm with you A through Z. He'll sell them out in a heartbeat, IMO, but for now it's making these people feel some basic affirmation that politics hasn't given them in a long time.

ETA: after some thought, I want to clarify that the Republican message to these folks is more like "we'll half-heartedly fight for you on x, y and z, and come to think of it, really just x and y because we think z is as icky as the Democrats do, and when it comes to a, b and c what you really want is 1, 2 and 3. Really: all you want is 1, 2 and 3 and just 1, 2, and 3. Best to ignore that x y z stuff altogether if we can."

 

[413Blue]

I'm not going to say that I am buying into the Trump "appeal", but I am almost certain to vote for him barring the addition of a legitimate and viable third candidate that I am more aligned with (I won't throw my vote away on some third party candidate who will get less than 5% of the popular vote as I feel that is stupid, although voting for a Republican in MA is usually a waste anyway.)
Without going into deep detail about myself, I am a right-leaning independent. I've voted for Democrats on all levels before, but generally vote Republican simply because I support more of a free-market approach to regulating the economy and I generally believe that liberals do more harm for the lower and middle class and I find it amazing how they have developed the image as being the party for "the little guy" as Elizabeth Warren would say.
I watched closely from the beginning, before the debates and all of the candidates were even officially campaigning, but did not commit to anyone at first. Pretty quickly I realized I would be voting for a Republican, because as crazy as Trump seems as a candidate, Bernie Sanders was possible the most dangerous candidate to ever gain real traction in my lifetime. As someone who has always been interested in how economy's work, especially around the world (I was the dorky kid who would read the Economist and WSJ when I was in seventh grade and would talk with the old guys at my family parties about emerging markets and the Fed, eventually majored in Economics and still follow it closely as it fairly closely relates to my career...yada yada) everything about the Bernie platform would have been devastating for everyone in the country, from the poor (a class which would have steadily grown) to the rich, everyone except for the lucky few would have been negatively impacted by his socialist economic vision. No need to go any further about him, he was the "idiot vote" for this campaign. As he rose to contention, Hillary chased him further and further into the left, basically rendering her out for me (that's not even including all the baggage, controversies, lies, corruption and such, which would have made it impossible for me to trust her anyway.) So now I was looking to the right for a candidate.
I thought the whole Trump thing, like many others, was laughable at first and never thought he had any realistic chance of winning the nomination. I had a few favorites, who one by one got eliminated, until it was really down to Trump and Cruz. Ted Cruz in my mind was the worst option of all the Republican candidates, so it really came down to Trump. I was still hoping for some type of convention miracle leading to a better candidate, but it didn't happen and right now, we have two candidates. Of the two I dislike Trump less than Hillary. If Hillary had decided to campaign on the record of Bill and tried to be more in the mold of Bill instead of Obama (Bill was a much more centrist, pro-growth, smaller government kind of Deomocrat), I may have voted for her despite the baggage.

So, bottomline, Trump has massive and dedicated support from low-information voters (although Hillary probably has as much low-info votes simply from people hating Trump but not being able to explain why, but the democratic leaning media, which is everyone but Fox, has built that narrative) just like Obama did. He will also have massive support who see him as the lesser of the two evils. Will it be enough? Probably not, but the latest polls actually put him ahead for now. Next week I expect Hillary to be back in the lead after her post-convention bump, and she will probably win.

I would have written this a bit better, but I've been up all night and i'm all fired up on coffee.

 

[Angela Miller]

Thoughts: Hell, meet handbasket. Handbasket, meet Hell. Welcome you both to Amuricah.

I will now officially never return to this thread.

Hey moderators, is there a way to block threads?

No offense Nicholas Constantino I'm almost up to my 100th day clean (i.e., avoiding politics) and life has been better.

As Always Thank-You FootyLovin !!

 

[Ulrich]

I'm not going to say that I am buying into the Trump "appeal", but I am almost certain to vote for him barring the addition of a legitimate and viable third candidate that I am more aligned with (I won't throw my vote away on some third party candidate who will get less than 5% of the popular vote as I feel that is stupid, although voting for a Republican in MA is usually a waste anyway.)
Without going into deep detail about myself, I am a right-leaning independent. I've voted for Democrats on all levels before, but generally vote Republican simply because I support more of a free-market approach to regulating the economy and I generally believe that liberals do more harm for the lower and middle class and I find it amazing how they have developed the image as being the party for "the little guy" as Elizabeth Warren would say.
I watched closely from the beginning, before the debates and all of the candidates were even officially campaigning, but did not commit to anyone at first. Pretty quickly I realized I would be voting for a Republican, because as crazy as Trump seems as a candidate, Bernie Sanders was possible the most dangerous candidate to ever gain real traction in my lifetime. As someone who has always been interested in how economy's work, especially around the world (I was the dorky kid who would read the Economist and WSJ when I was in seventh grade and would talk with the old guys at my family parties about emerging markets and the Fed, eventually majored in Economics and still follow it closely as it fairly closely relates to my career...yada yada) everything about the Bernie platform would have been devastating for everyone in the country, from the poor (a class which would have steadily grown) to the rich, everyone except for the lucky few would have been negatively impacted by his socialist economic vision. No need to go any further about him, he was the "idiot vote" for this campaign. As he rose to contention, Hillary chased him further and further into the left, basically rendering her out for me (that's not even including all the baggage, controversies, lies, corruption and such, which would have made it impossible for me to trust her anyway.) So now I was looking to the right for a candidate.
I thought the whole Trump thing, like many others, was laughable at first and never thought he had any realistic chance of winning the nomination. I had a few favorites, who one by one got eliminated, until it was really down to Trump and Cruz. Ted Cruz in my mind was the worst option of all the Republican candidates, so it really came down to Trump. I was still hoping for some type of convention miracle leading to a better candidate, but it didn't happen and right now, we have two candidates. Of the two I dislike Trump less than Hillary. If Hillary had decided to campaign on the record of Bill and tried to be more in the mold of Bill instead of Obama (Bill was a much more centrist, pro-growth, smaller government kind of Deomocrat), I may have voted for her despite the baggage.

So, bottomline, Trump has massive and dedicated support from low-information voters (although Hillary probably has as much low-info votes simply from people hating Trump but not being able to explain why, but the democratic leaning media, which is everyone but Fox, has built that narrative) just like Obama did. He will also have massive support who see him as the lesser of the two evils. Will it be enough? Probably not, but the latest polls actually put him ahead for now. Next week I expect Hillary to be back in the lead after her post-convention bump, and she will probably win.

I would have written this a bit better, but I've been up all night and i'm all fired up on coffee.

View attachment 5401

View attachment 5402

Asking for a friend:

Since you didn't delve into it, does it bother you that the guy you like for economic reasons is mired in multiple business lawsuits and hires the same foreign workers he's campaigning to keep out (it's in today's news re his Florida businesses and getting temp foreign worker visas for maids, cooks, and other hotel workers). What about his xenophobic, racist, bigoted, and misogynistic views and statements?

Your vote is your vote, but stating reasons for liking somebody while ignoring the others won't make them go away.

 

[Angela Miller]

So People will anyone answer this are they fit for the Pitch?? Really Look AT them could they go 90 plus running back and forth ? I'm sure the both of them couldn't last 5 minutes!! I'd love to see this !! I'm with FootyLovin in my disillusion of it all ! I'm not voting for the first time ever!