2023 Roster and Transfer Discussion Thread

[413Blue]

I've been thinking this all off-season as each player departs. Many of these players signed with Vieira, or Pep's guy Dome Torrent, even Ronny was a winner with Celtic.
Now we have Nick Cushing, an interim turned permanent managing his first mens team.
We have had a gradually diminishing recruiting profile in our manager spot. That has to be playing a role at least to some extent.

 

[ZYanksRule]

If Deila is still here does everyone leave? Ronnie sent a clear message that he didn’t believe this club was worth sticking with for even one year to attempt to repeat. I can’t believe that has no effect. In all, assuming Johnson goes, 7 of the 11 players who started our Cup final will have left at their earliest next opportunity, and that’s not even counting Medina. Plus you could add Tinnerholm who would have started but for his injury. This has to say something about the club culture, and I don’t think it’s because NYCFC is a bad place to play.

To be clear, IMO Ronnie’s replacement is irrelevant and this has nothing to do with Nick and everything to do with luring players and coaches by telling them the club is a stepping stone and then proving it. Winning the cup is a value multiplier of diminishing time value. Then the manager himself bails out midseason and everyone left has to think - what am I staying for?

The only departures the team wasn't ready for or didn't want were Callens and (if he leaves) Johnson. They were expecting Taty and Sands to go, they knew Maxi was going to retire soon and wanted to end with Racing, Tinnerholm wasn't really surprising, Santi was on loan. I actually think most of the drops this offseason have been their call. I think they wanted Callens back and I think they want Johnson back. Aside from those two, I think most of these moves are being handled by the front office.

I think the team knew 2022 was the last kick of the can for the championship core, and I think they were prepared for a huge turnover offseason. The vast majority of this core has been here since 2017.

 

[SoupInNYC]

The only departures the team wasn't ready for or didn't want were Callens and (if he leaves) Johnson. They were expecting Taty and Sands to go, they knew Maxi was going to retire soon and wanted to end with Racing, Tinnerholm wasn't really surprising, Santi was on loan. I actually think most of the drops this offseason have been their call. I think they wanted Callens back and I think they want Johnson back. Aside from those two, I think most of these moves are being handled by the front office.

I think the team knew 2022 was the last kick of the can for the championship core, and I think they were prepared for a huge turnover offseason. The vast majority of this core has been here since 2017.

Agree with this except I think the club was expecting Santi to return, even though he was on loan.

I do think Tinnerholm was gone regardless, but I do wonder if Maxi would have been more willing to stick around for one more year had the other impending departures (Santi, Callens, Johnson, etc.) not been happening and he thought he had one more chance to win another cup.

 

[mgarbowski]

The most annoying thing about my theory is it is neither provable nor disprovable, which I normally hate.* But some things are just like that. Plus the data behind Paul Harvey's thread yesterday indicates this turnover is not in any way normal or standard. It doesn't mean my explanation is right, but it also seems a bit unlikely this all just happened by chance. Yes, every player who left had his own reasons. Going home. Wanting to prove themselves on a bigger stage, etc. We moved a small number by design: Medina and Heber for sure. Acevedo is ambiguous, but my gut says he asked to go. There is no indication we had a replacement already lined up.

Thorarinsson, Callens, Tinnerholm, Sands, Maxi, Santi and Taty all left by their own decision, with Johnson TBD but his call if he goes. And it's not the case that they all just happened to be on an expiring contract either. Were they all holding on specifically for a title run and that was it? Maybe. Also cannot be proven/disproved. But this is not the norm for MLS Cup champs either. Per Harvey this is a rather extreme outlier.

I don't know. But team culture is real and so are leadership effects. I don't expect to convince anyone. I'm not sure I'm fully convinced myself. But I can't dismiss it either.

* The second most annoying thing is it's my obsession/hobbyhorse and I just keep bringing it up.

 

[KevinJRogers]

It doesn't mean my explanation is right, but it also seems a bit unlikely this all just happened by chance.

I don't think it did. Looking at it from the outside, this has all the earmarks of a strategic decision. It seems pretty clear we've thrown the table over on purpose.

I do think we'd prefer to keep Johnson and Callens right now, though -- but the numbers would have to fit with the overall plan. Whatever it is.

 

[JayH]

The only departures the team wasn't ready for or didn't want were Callens and (if he leaves) Johnson. They were expecting Taty and Sands to go, they knew Maxi was going to retire soon and wanted to end with Racing, Tinnerholm wasn't really surprising, Santi was on loan. I actually think most of the drops this offseason have been their call. I think they wanted Callens back and I think they want Johnson back. Aside from those two, I think most of these moves are being handled by the front office.

I think the team knew 2022 was the last kick of the can for the championship core, and I think they were prepared for a huge turnover offseason. The vast majority of this core has been here since 2017.

They knew Callens was going to seek DP money and knew they weren’t going to be willing to accommodate that - so his departure was a sad one but an expected one.

 

[Gene]

If Deila is still here does everyone leave? Ronnie sent a clear message that he didn’t believe this club was worth sticking with for even one year to attempt to repeat.

(TIGHTENS UP TINFOIL HAT)

Can't really add anything new as to the players who left the team. The combo of age, contract status and guys looking to move on is nothing more than the perfect storm hitting home. Deila may be another story.

It goes without saying it's nothing but speculation and guess work on my part, but Deila (like Dome before him) may have seen the handwriting on the wall and figured he didn't sign up to manage a minor league Triple A affiliate.

It was a foregone conclusion that Taty was a goner. I wouldn't be surprised if Ronny (again, like Dome before him) went to the mothership and told them in order to be competitive he needs a Benteke type as a replacement and was told no. I wouldn't be shocked if he was told they dropped a fortune on Magno and now it's Ronny's job to make it work.

meh. What can I say? This Triple a horse shit is the hill I've chosen to die on and I won't change my mind until CFG proves me wrong.

(LOOSENS THE STRINGS OF AFOREMENTIONED TIN FOIL HAT)

 

[mgarbowski]

Also FWIW my musings the last 2 days has me rethinking my back and forth with Shwafta a day or so before that, when he was saying this could be the year we wait until summer to add some key pieces and I said there's no reason to think that.
We have so many missing pieces I would not now be surprised if Shwafta was right. I knew all the individual bits but didn't really add them up together in my head and I didn't quite really grasp that 70-80% of our recent regular contributors are gone.

 

[mgarbowski]

Just when you think you know something

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615040011304411136

 

[Marito]

Just when you think you know something

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615040011304411136

I am not optimistic, but I just wanted to point out that until and unless there is an official statement from Boca, I find it hard to believe they would be able and willing to pay that much more than MLS for a CB. Argentina in general is in a horrible economic shape, and the fact that there are countless soccer tabloids over there (and in South America in general) makes most of what they print and tweet very unreliable. They need to have news every single hour, so they mostly just make them up.

 

[ZYanksRule]

(TIGHTENS UP TINFOIL HAT)

Can't really add anything new as to the players who left the team. The combo of age, contract status and guys looking to move on is nothing more than the perfect storm hitting home. Deila may be another story.

It goes without saying it's nothing but speculation and guess work on my part, but Deila (like Dome before him) may have seen the handwriting on the wall and figured he didn't sign up to manage a minor league Triple A affiliate.

It was a foregone conclusion that Taty was a goner. I wouldn't be surprised if Ronny (again, like Dome before him) went to the mothership and told them in order to be competitive he needs a Benteke type as a replacement and was told no. I wouldn't be shocked if he was told they dropped a fortune on Magno and now it's Ronny's job to make it work.

meh. What can I say? This Triple a horse shit is the hill I've chosen to die on and I won't change my mind until CFG proves me wrong.

(LOOSENS THE STRINGS OF AFOREMENTIONED TIN FOIL HAT)

What makes you think, after we've had the best record in MLS over a six-season span, that all of a sudden CFG is going to give us a "Triple-A" team? This is the talking point I really don't understand -- this organization has given us one of the most consistent teams in MLS. NYCFC has clinched seven straight postseason appearances. There is only one team in the entire league with a longer active postseason streak.

Yes we've lost a lot of players. Yes there haven't been any rumors. But that doesn't mean we are going to go out for the cheap or not bring in good replacements. I don't understand, aside from the change in what kind of DPs we bring in, why people think we're so cheap. We're not bringing in big names anymore, but we continually bring in impactful players, most recently like Talles Magno and Gabi Pereira.

 

[mgarbowski]

Multiple reports Brighton Hove Albion interested in Taty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615021453073698816

Very limited details,; certainly nothing is done.

Also this account backs what Abramowitz said about Callens. The Boca repoerts were way oversold. Nothing is final and Callens might even be more likely to return than not.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615042114038923272

 

[Fantazma]

I am not optimistic, but I just wanted to point out that until and unless there is an official statement from Boca, I find it hard to believe they would be able and willing to pay that much more than MLS for a CB. Argentina in general is in a horrible economic shape, and the fact that there are countless soccer tabloids over there (and in South America in general) makes most of what they print and tweet very unreliable. They need to have news every single hour, so they mostly just make them up.

Playing in a big team of the region (and known Worldwide), and playing libertadores is a huge deal for many south americans, regardless of the other valid points you make.

 

[canchon]

Yeah all the reports are saying that Boca signed Bruno Valdez from America - would be weird for them to sign both him and Callens at the same time.

Not to say that this transfer couldn’t happen, but would make sense if the Callens to Boca is not as solid as we’ve been hearing.

 

[adam]

Guys you have to remember, we’re no longer a champions league club. Why sign with us if they can’t play for the big trophy?

 

[Gene]

What makes you think, after we've had the best record in MLS over a six-season span, that all of a sudden CFG is going to give us a "Triple-A" team? This is the talking point I really don't understand -- this organization has given us one of the most consistent teams in MLS. NYCFC has clinched seven straight postseason appearances. There is only one team in the entire league with a longer active postseason streak.

Yes we've lost a lot of players. Yes there haven't been any rumors. But that doesn't mean we are going to go out for the cheap or not bring in good replacements. I don't understand, aside from the change in what kind of DPs we bring in, why people think we're so cheap. We're not bringing in big names anymore, but we continually bring in impactful players, most recently like Talles Magno and Gabi Pereira.

Never said they were cheap, bro. I'm just saying our relationship with CFG is no different than that of the Yankees and Scranton/Wilkes Barre. Personnel decisions are going to be based on what benefits the parent organization first and foremost. They'll gladly open up the checkbook and send us a bunch of prospects, because we're a place they can get playing time to hone their skills and be moved asap so the ROI can be collected.

This roster is screaming for a Pozuelo type to step in and take over. Will they make a play for Poz? That's doubtful. We need an established striker. Are they going to bring in a veteran that can carry the team or are they going to force feed the job to Magno. I say the latter. The roster as of now is inexperienced and chock full of holes and it isn't going to get better by bringing in more teenagers. Which imho is exactly what is going to happen.

I'll agree 100% that just because they've gone in one direction over the past few years doesn't mean thing can't/won't change, but I'll believe it when It happens.

 

[KevinJRogers]

Never said they were cheap, bro. I'm just saying our relationship with CFG is no different than that of the Yankees and Scranton/Wilkes Barre. Personnel decisions are going to be based on what benefits the parent organization first and foremost. They'll gladly open up the checkbook and send us a bunch of prospects, because we're a place they can get playing time to hone their skills and be moved asap so the ROI can be collected.

This roster is screaming for a Pozuelo type to step in and take over. Will they make a play for Poz? That's doubtful. We need an established striker. Are they going to bring in a veteran that can carry the team or are they going to force feed the job to Magno. I say the latter. The roster as of now is inexperienced and chock full of holes and it isn't going to get better by bringing in more teenagers. Which imho is exactly what is going to happen.

I'll agree 100% that just because they've gone in one direction over the past few years doesn't mean thing can't/won't change, but I'll believe it when It happens.

Compared to the Big Five in Europe, every league is Triple-A or lower. It's just the pecking order of global football. The one possible exception to that is the Brasileirão.

Personally, given the realities, I think we're fortunate to be part of an organization with a worldwide network to draw on (including Bahia in Brazil). It's an advantage a lot of MLS teams would like to have, I bet. The talent can flow in as well as flow out. And does.

In any event, I don't think CFG in any way, shape or form wants to see us languish. It's in the organization's interest to see us succeed. It's not just about the value of the players, it's about the value of the franchise as a whole. And the best evidence of where we stand within CFG is the fact they're dropping all that money on a new stadium.

I can't imagine the Yankees doing that for Scranton/Wilkes Barre.

 

[Kjbert]

I can live with a rebuild. My asks are…

1) Tell hs and be honest about something for once. Explain that MLS rules hamstring us and it will take 3 cycles to improve and
2) Admit the Academy isn’t turning out starting MLS players. That’s the MLS hack. One or even two HGs in your lineup makes everything SO MUCH easier

 

[moogoo]

I can live with a rebuild. My asks are…

1) Tell hs and be honest about something for once. Explain that MLS rules hamstring us and it will take 3 cycles to improve and
2) Admit the Academy isn’t turning out starting MLS players. That’s the MLS hack. One or even two HGs in your lineup makes everything SO MUCH easier

 

[gbservis]

Never said they were cheap, bro. I'm just saying our relationship with CFG is no different than that of the Yankees and Scranton/Wilkes Barre. Personnel decisions are going to be based on what benefits the parent organization first and foremost. They'll gladly open up the checkbook and send us a bunch of prospects, because we're a place they can get playing time to hone their skills and be moved asap so the ROI can be collected.

This roster is screaming for a Pozuelo type to step in and take over. Will they make a play for Poz? That's doubtful. We need an established striker. Are they going to bring in a veteran that can carry the team or are they going to force feed the job to Magno. I say the latter. The roster as of now is inexperienced and chock full of holes and it isn't going to get better by bringing in more teenagers. Which imho is exactly what is going to happen.

I'll agree 100% that just because they've gone in one direction over the past few years doesn't mean thing can't/won't change, but I'll believe it when It happens.

I agree that CFG has shifted more towards using a portion of the NYCFC roster as a mechanism for prospect development but I still think there is a good chance they replace Maxi and some of the other open spots with more established players. Sending a roster of 21-year-old prospects out to get crushed every week is not a winning formula for recruitment, development, or boosting a young prospect's transfer value. CFG is smart enough to know they need a mix of vertern players and prospects to succeed. I don't think it will be Pozuelo or any other known player within the league because CFG seems a bit arrogant about their scouting network and will convince themselves that they can get someone even better but I do think we will get a player like Pozuelo with one of our DP spots.

The departures of Santi and Acevado could be viewed as an indication that CFG know they can only use a limited number of roster spots on prospects. They use a handful of spots as a 2-3 year window, either the player develops enough to make the leap to Europe like Taty and Herrera or they get rotated back to South America like Sanit and Acevado to make room for the next round of prospects.