2025 Roster and Transfer Discussion Thread

[moogoo]

If he scores 0.70 G/90 (between his G and xG last year) over 2500 minutes he's scoring about 20 goals and $600-700k will not come close to what he deserves. That level production might exceed TAM even. Someone will offer him much more and he'll demand a transfer

Also, the hypo stipulates that 2 slots are open this summer because Talles and Jovan are sold. There's no need to buy down Martins and you could both get a 10 in July and still have a slot left potentially for Martinez at year end. Or use it in the summer for another need and maybe have to transfer Martinez.

I'm not sure what Jovan has to do with the hypo. I thought he is our 3rd U-22 signing? maybe i miscounted. went back and looked at U-22 rules and bakrar still qualifies as U-22.

As you said, if Talles is sold in the summer, we'd have 2 DP spots open if none are signed this window (Talles and Santi). I think Santi's spot needs to go to a #10. Re-reading your hypo terms and assumptions, if Martinez is lighting up the league come summer time, I wouldn't be angry if they used Talles's DP spot on him if that's what it takes for him to stay. Especially if he's on golden boot pace.

Given those assumptions, he's shown consistent high performance and he's a known quantity on the team and in the league. Bringing in a DP striker brings with it unknowns and risks and potentially even more money than would be used to pay Martinez a DP salary.

 

[mgarbowski]

I'm not sure what Jovan has to do with the hypo. I thought he is our 3rd U-22 signing? maybe i miscounted. went back and looked at U-22 rules and bakrar still qualifies as U-22.

As you said, if Talles is sold in the summer, we'd have 2 DP spots open if none are signed this window (Talles and Santi). I think Santi's spot needs to go to a #10. Re-reading your hypo terms and assumptions, if Martinez is lighting up the league come summer time, I wouldn't be angry if they used Talles's DP spot on him if that's what it takes for him to stay. Especially if he's on golden boot pace.

Given those assumptions, he's shown consistent high performance and he's a known quantity on the team and in the league. Bringing in a DP striker brings with it unknowns and risks and potentially even more money than would be used to pay Martinez a DP salary.

You're right, I had brain lock. Santi is the 3rd DP and gone. So the hypo would be to assume just Talles is sold. No wonder you didn't get my point seeing as I screwed up the details. I'll fix it above in case anyone else looks.

 

[gbservis]

You're right, I had brain lock. Santi is the 3rd DP and gone. So the hypo would be to assume just Talles is sold. No wonder you didn't get my point seeing as I screwed up the details. I'll fix it above in case anyone else looks.

I was confused so I had to look it up. Depending on what DP/U22 model they use and I think we can guess which they will choose we still could only have 1 DP spot:

Clubs will be required to submit and announce their 2025 roster construction path by the Roster Compliance Date on Feb. 21.

1. Three Designated Player Model

• Up to three Designated Players AND;
• Up to three U22 Initiative Players

1. U22 Initiative Player Model

• Up to two Designated Players AND;
• Up to four U22 Initiative Players AND;
• Up to an additional $2 Million of General Allocation Money

Source: Roster Rules and Regulations | MLSsoccer.com

Edit: since it bothers me, the non-sequential list numbering is a direct copy from the MLS article

 

[moogoo]

I was confused so I had to look it up. Depending on what DP/U22 model they use and I think we can guess which they will choose we still could only have 1 DP spot:



Source: Roster Rules and Regulations | MLSsoccer.com

Edit: since it bothers me, the non-sequential list numbering is a direct copy from the MLS article

so right now, we have:

Magno (YDP)
Santi (DP)
Martins (DP)
Fernandez (U22)
Bakrar (U22)
Ojeda (U22)
Jovan (U22)

Based on the 2 models, we didn't really fit into either?

We signed jovan february 2024. At the time, Magno was still on the books. How did we get 4 U-22s with 3 DPs? Were 2024 rules different (I can't seem to find them)

 

[mgarbowski]

so right now, we have:

Magno (YDP)
Santi (DP)
Martins (DP)
Fernandez (U22)
Bakrar (U22)
Ojeda (U22)
Jovan (U22)

Based on the 2 models, we didn't really fit into either?

We signed jovan february 2024. At the time, Magno was still on the books. How did we get 4 U-22s with 3 DPs? Were 2024 rules different (I can't seem to find them)

Now that I am reminded, I am confident that NYCFC opted for the 4 U22 and 2 DP model.
Maybe there is a grace period for compliance, or maybe Talles is off the books unless and until he comes back.
FWIW, Soccer America listed our 2024 and 20225 DP and U22 slot usage as follows:

2024:
DP slots: Talles Magno (Corinthians, loan), Thiago Martins, Santiago Rodriguez (Botafogo, transfer).
U22 slots: Nicolas Acevedo (Bahia, transfer), Julian Fernandez, Jovan Mijatovic (Louven, loan), Agustin Ojeda.
2025:
DP slots: Thiago Martins.
U22 slots: Julián Fernández, Agustín Ojeda.

It seems they count the loans as if they're just gone, which I guess you're allowed to do, with the risks that entails.

 

[moogoo]

Now that I am reminded, I am confident that NYCFC opted for the 4 U22 and 2 DP model.
Maybe there is a grace period for compliance, or maybe Talles is off the books unless and until he comes back.
FWIW, Soccer America listed our 2024 and 20225 DP and U22 slot usage as follows:

2024:
DP slots: Talles Magno (Corinthians, loan), Thiago Martins, Santiago Rodriguez (Botafogo, transfer).
U22 slots: Nicolas Acevedo (Bahia, transfer), Julian Fernandez, Jovan Mijatovic (Louven, loan), Agustin Ojeda.
2025:
DP slots: Thiago Martins.
U22 slots: Julián Fernández, Agustín Ojeda.

It seems they count the loans as if they're just gone, which I guess you're allowed to do, with the risks that entails.

interesting. why is bakrar not listed? he was signed as u-22 at the age of 22. he's 24 now, but unless i'm misunderstanding the roster rule, he should still be U-22. If he's not U-22, that does create more flexibility.

 

[gbservis]

The rule is also strange that it says you need to commit to a model by February 21. Theoretically we have the spots to go with either model, do we still have to commit? Is the model commitment required because of the GAM?

 

[moogoo]

 

[ZYanksRule]

The rule is also strange that it says you need to commit to a model by February 21. Theoretically we have the spots to go with either model, do we still have to commit? Is the model commitment required because of the GAM?

Yeah, we have to commit, then we'll fill our spaces accordingly.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Bakrar was bought down using allocation dollars. Teams can get roster and cap relief for players on loan. Neither Jovan or Talles count towards our u22 or DP totals.

 

[mgarbowski]

Found the announcement where NYCFC picked U22 for 2024 at least. A switch seems unlikely IMO.

 

[gbservis]

Found the announcement where NYCFC picked U22 for 2024 at least. A switch seems unlikely IMO.

Lee: Hi MLS, just calling in to let you know NYCFC is going with the U18 option this year.
MLS: You know it's U22, so you will go with that and take the GAM?
Lee: Can I get more GAM if we go with U18?
MLS: No
Lee: What about U18 and at least a year from being a reliable MLS starter, can I get more GAM?
MLS: No
Lee: Okay, well it was worth a try, just put us down for the U18 option, Thanks. Okay I have to go call my boss so he can tell me what players we are signing. Bye.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Lee: Hi MLS, just calling in to let you know NYCFC is going with the U18 option this year.
MLS: You know it's U22, so you will go with that and take the GAM?
Lee: Can I get more GAM if we go with U18?
MLS: No
Lee: What about U18 and at least a year from being a reliable MLS starter, can I get more GAM?
MLS: No
Lee: Okay, well it was worth a try, just put us down for the U18 option, Thanks. Okay I have to go call my boss so he can tell me what players we are signing. Bye.

I'd rather laugh than cry.

 

[mgarbowski]

Found the announcement where NYCFC picked U22 for 2024 at least. A switch seems unlikely IMO.

Lol forgot to paste the link:

MLS Clubs Declare Roster Construction Models For 2024 Season | MLSSoccer.com

19 clubs select Designated Player Model and 10 clubs opt for U22 Initiative Player Model

www.mlssoccer.com

Also here's the HRB article on it.

New York City FC choose U22 Initiative Player Model

In case you had any doubt, NYCFC Sporting Director David Lee is building a roster for the future.

www.hudsonriverblue.com

 

[mgarbowski]

Now thinking Talles had to be sent on loan last summer in order to become compliant. The HRB article says as much.

 

[FootyLovin]

I wouldn’t use the DP spot on Martinez. i love the guy but even after 18 months it is a small sample size. I’d try to sell high and use the DP on someone more proven.

 

[mgarbowski]

I wouldn’t use the DP spot on Martinez. i love the guy but even after 18 months it is a small sample size. I’d try to sell high and use the DP on someone more proven.

I was leaning yes when I forgot about the change and thought we still had 3 DP slots, and under the hypo where he scores 18 or more goals this year. With 2 slots it's a much tougher call. If that happens and the club transfers him it can't afford to pay him because we're committed to the U22 model - well, that will be fun to watch.
Maybe I'm wrong and we can keep him with GAM/TAM, but I think he can earn more than that if he performs at that level. The Goldilocks outcome is he scores 10-15 goals in a full 2025 season (2500-3000 minutes) after scoring that many in a half season of minutes in 2024. That's decent production at a price where maybe he stays for a few more years and everyone is happy.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

Now thinking Talles had to be sent on loan last summer in order to become compliant. The HRB article says as much.

Why would we need to loan Talles? We would have just picked the other roster build path with 3 DPs.

 

[moogoo]

Why would we need to loan Talles? We would have just picked the other roster build path with 3 DPs.

I think the confusion lies in the fact that no one knew that Bakrar was converted to a regular international player and is no longer a U-22. There was no news of this and the club still lists him as U-22 on the website (though we know the site isn't always accurate).

At the time of Jovan's signing, our roster had 3 DP and 4 U-22, as far as the general fan was aware. Thinking about it again, Jovan was signed february 2024 and magno was not loaned until august. We would have had to declare our roster by feb. 23, 2024 so someone would have had to have been bought down or converted to be in roster compliance.

All in all, it's confusing considering the fanbase generally aren't privy to all of the specifics of roster moves, buy downs, and conversions. The published rules aren't very clear on what the salary threshold is for a U-22 for purposes of converting a U-22 to a regular roster slot (at least it didn't seem clear to me).
Anyway, as listed above by mgarbowski based on data from soccer america and your information, bakrar was converted in 2024 and no longer U-22. So, at the time of Jovan's signing, we had 3 DP and 3 U-22.

 

[mgarbowski]

Why would we need to loan Talles? We would have just picked the other roster build path with 3 DPs.

Admittedly it's a bit inexplicable. With Talles they had 3 DPs and 3 U22s, so as you note they could choose the DP model and keep him for the rest of the year.
The benefits of choosing the 4 U22 model would be either to acquire a 4th U22 last year or spend the $1M in GAM they received for choosing the 4-2 option. But they didn't use the 4th U22 slot and AFAIK they didn't spend the extra GAM, which I believe expired last year. As of 2025 most GAM no longer expires except for the extra $2M you get every year by choosing 4-2 (last year $1 for half season). So getting $1M GAM and not spending it last summer was kind of a waste.
But I also can't think of another good reason to loan Talles midseason unless he was a bad locker room guy or they feared nobody would take him in the winter. I don't believe either one of those is the case either.
Only other explanation is Nick told Lee he was done with Talles and wanted him gone and Lee complied so Nick could never complain he didn't get what he asked (outside of a complete roster in 2023). I could believe that but I'm not aware of any evidence for it. Or Talles asked to be gone. Bu though they like to give players what they want I think they could have waited until season end to be fair.

It seems the choice between 3-3 and 4-2 last year was not all that important and I don't know why they loaned Talles when they did.