Kreis " We Can't Use Tam Because Our Dp's Make Too Much $..."

[NotAlexis]

I went to the open practice and one of the most interesting parts of the Kreis Q&A was when asked about a 4th DP like LAG, he explained that they don't have a 4th DP but instead used a "pay down system" (targeted allocation money) to pay down one of their DP's under the DP level to sign another DP. He followed that up by saying "we can't use that because our DP's make way too much to be able to pay them down"

If I read the TAM rule correctly, what you don't use, us taken away from you at the end of the year. This doesn't mean you have to make the deal, but it would be smart to trade it for possibly more regular allocation money for next year, or possibly another Int'l slot so we can finalize the Tefu signing. I was upset to find out we couldn't use this available system to make our squad stronger. It seems to me that LAG has succeeded by having some amazing players and tactics, but also, making the best possible use of the rules set forth. In my estimations it's their creative use of MLS roster rules that put them in the drivers seat in the league (besides MLS creating rules for their success).

 

[JGarrettLieb]

We traded our TAM money to the galaxy for two years so we can have an additional international roster spot for two years. Guess who's salaries run out in two years?

 

[NotAlexis]

We traded our TAM money to the galaxy for two years so we can have an additional international roster spot for two years. Guess who's salaries run out in two years?

When did that happen? How the fuck did I miss that?

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

When did that happen? How the fuck did I miss that?

When we got Jefferson mena. And when the gals used the TAM on gonzalez.

 

[NotAlexis]

We traded our TAM money to the galaxy for two years so we can have an additional international roster spot for two years. Guess who's salaries run out in two years?

I looked it up, looks like it was used for Mena. Well, at least it upgraded our back line which is what I was hoping for anyway. Good work everyone.

 

[danger]

When did that happen? How the fuck did I miss that?

The official announcement from the club (on Jefferson Mena) didn't really discuss specifically refer to TAM but it was discussed on the forums, I believe. I also keep a running tab of our acquisitions in another thread

 

[sbrylski]

We traded our TAM money to the galaxy for two years so we can have an additional international roster spot for two years. Guess who's salaries run out in two years?

Has two years' worth of TAM been confirmed? We know we get the international roster spot for two years, but I don't think $200k in TAM has ever been confirmed. If so, however, that makes a lot of sense.

We pay off Mix with regular AM next year. Then we let Lampard's contract expire. Then we designated Mix as a DP, immediately buy down his contract with the rest of our TAM, and sign a new DP to replace Lampard.

Assuming the numbers all work out, that is. This timeline also makes a lot of sense as to why we ditched our TAM right away. The way the rule is written, we cannot apply TAM to Mix unless we sign another DP in conjunction. But our DP spots are filled until 2017.

 

[NotAlexis]

Then we designated Mix as a DP, immediately buy down his contract with the rest of our TAM, and sign a new DP to replace Lampard.

Smartest move with that money unless:

We have the regular AM available to continue to pay down Mix's contract without having to make him a DP. Then acquire a lower level DP around the $700k mark and pay down his DP$ with the rest of our TAM ($300k), essentially affording us a 5th DP. In order for this to work we'd need a healthy B team to be able to stash away some depth, considering we wouldn't have the cap space to really be able to keep them on the 1st team roster.

danger , you're the AM expert, this possible?

 

[sbrylski]

Smartest move with that money unless:

We have the regular AM available to continue to pay down Mix's contract without having to make him a DP. Then acquire a lower level DP around the $700k mark and pay down his DP$ with the rest of our TAM ($300k), essentially affording us a 5th DP. In order for this to work we'd need a healthy B team to be able to stash away some depth, considering we wouldn't have the cap space to really be able to keep them on the 1st team roster.

danger , you're the AM expert, this possible?

That seems to require a lot of AM. From attempts to reverse engineer our cap situation, $1 million in total AM seems like a good estimate for how much money we got as an expansion team. We are probably down to $200k in AM, plus I think everyone gets a little bit more each year. Mix was at $750k in salary, I think we'll run out of AM after next season based on these numbers.

*"These numbers" are brought to you by: My rectum.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

That seems to require a lot of AM. From attempts to reverse engineer our cap situation, $1 million in total AM seems like a good estimate for how much money we got as an expansion team. We are probably down to $200k in AM, plus I think everyone gets a little bit more each year. Mix was at $750k in salary, I think we'll run out of AM after next season based on these numbers.

*"These numbers" are brought to you by: My rectum.

Just to point out, this allocation money, which is valuable and which we have apparently run out of: we used some to trade for Josh Williams and some to get Seba Velasquez.

 

[Gotham Gator]

I wouldn't put too much into that statement. No, we can't buy down any existing DPs with TAM, but we could always sign someone new in the TAM range and use TAM to bring his salary in compliance.

Also, you have to wonder if this is how we are planning on dealing with Mix's salary going forward.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ment-club-rosters-introduction-targeted-alloc

 

[juventuz]

God, MLS has some of the dumbest rules.

 

[NYCFC_MLS_FAN]

But what doesn't make sense is that philadelphia used Tam so tranquillo barnetta wasn't a dp because they already have 3 dps but they didn't buy anyone down to make him a dp which makes no sense why new york couldn't do that to buy down someone's salary so they wouldn't be a dp

I went to the open practice and one of the most interesting parts of the Kreis Q&A was when asked about a 4th DP like LAG, he explained that they don't have a 4th DP but instead used a "pay down system" (targeted allocation money) to pay down one of their DP's under the DP level to sign another DP. He followed that up by saying "we can't use that because our DP's make way too much to be able to pay them down"

If I read the TAM rule correctly, what you don't use, us taken away from you at the end of the year. This doesn't mean you have to make the deal, but it would be smart to trade it for possibly more regular allocation money for next year, or possibly another Int'l slot so we can finalize the Tefu signing. I was upset to find out we couldn't use this available system to make our squad stronger. It seems to me that LAG has succeeded by having some amazing players and tactics, but also, making the best possible use of the rules set forth. In my estimations it's their creative use of MLS roster rules that put them in the drivers seat in the league (besides MLS creating rules for their success).

 

[danger]

Has two years' worth of TAM been confirmed? [...] This timeline also makes a lot of sense as to why we ditched our TAM right away. The way the rule is written, we cannot apply TAM to Mix unless we sign another DP in conjunction. But our DP spots are filled until 2017.

Would it have to be two years' worth necessarily? I think the rule allows for money from one year to be used the following year before it expires:

While MLS clubs are not required to use their full $100,000 each season, they are required to use the remaining amount during the following year. For example, if a club does not use its $100,000 allotment in 2015, that club must use or trade at least that $100,000 of Targeted Allocation Money in 2016.
​

MLS announces additional investment in club rosters with introduction of Targeted Allocation Money (7/8/2015)

So 2016 could be spent in 2017 on Mix

 

[danger]

danger , you're the AM expert, this possible?

I'll defer to S sbrylski on this one. I haven't seen anything that specifies how much an expansion team gets to start with. All clubs get an additional $150,000 per year, and more through several other mechanisms, none of which will be applicable to us (unless we don't make the playoffs). At Mix's $750k salary, that's still another $300k to come up with. If we haven't already run out of allocation money, we will.

Edit: I don't know why I was using $300k as the number we had to buy Mix's salary down to. The max player salary is $436,250.

But while I am editing, I hadn't noticed that the total AM+TAM goes up to $300k in 2017 and 2018, and $350k in 2019. Since I think it's been established that TAM is $100k over next five years, I assume that means all teams are getting more allocation money each season.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

I'll defer to S sbrylski on this one. I haven't seen anything that specifies how much an expansion team gets to start with. All clubs get an additional $150,000 per year, and more through several other mechanisms, none of which will be applicable to us (unless we don't make the playoffs). At Mix's $750k salary, that's still another $300k to come up with. If we haven't already run out of allocation money, we will.

Going to go ahead and plug my post here,

http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/salary-cap-mls-rules-and-the-future-oh-my.3461/

That should help clarify things.

 

[sbrylski]

Going to go ahead and plug my post here,

http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?threads/salary-cap-mls-rules-and-the-future-oh-my.3461/

That should help clarify things.

To clarify, your spreadsheet concludes that we have used about $313k AM to buy down Mix below DP level, plus another $421k AM to lower our overall qualified salaries (top 20) below the cap? (Total of ~$735k.) Then when you subtract the $150k in AM everyone gets, we are down to the $585k number as "expansion team AM spent?"

Good analysis, my comments earlier in this thread were going off of memory from seeing your post a few weeks ago.

As Tom mentioned, we also traded some allocation money away. To throw out a a completely speculative number, I'll say $100k in each of the two separate trades, for a total of $800k AM spent.

If we were actually awarded a full $1M in AM as an expansion team, that would leave us with ~$200k left, which is around the rumored number of "cap space" we had when the summer transfer window opened.

And that's how, from memory, I completely prognosticated my way into the $1M AM prediction.

This post is dripping in speculation. Employ my conclusions with caution.

EDIT: Btw, Mena would have cost us a net $120k in AM, because his $200k salary bumped Watson-Siriboe's ~$80k off of the top 20. Which means, if any of this is close to correct, we are carrying somewhere between $50k and $150k AM in the wallet right now. (Plus an additional $150k next year still leaves us slightly short of the amount we need to buy Mix down with regular AM.)

EDIT 2: With Williams being claimed by Toronto, looks like we freed up another $65k (Losing Williams $125k from the equation and adding back in KWS's $80k).

 

[rangersnycfc]

I understand very well why MLS has so many dumb rules they don't want to end up like the old NASL, but if owners and teams willing to spend there shouldn't be a cap on that or DP's.

 

[JGarrettLieb]

To clarify, your spreadsheet concludes that we have used about $313k AM to buy down Mix below DP level, plus another $421k AM to lower our overall qualified salaries (top 20) below the cap? (Total of ~$735k.) Then when you subtract the $150k in AM everyone gets, we are down to the $585k number as "expansion team AM spent?"

Good analysis, my comments earlier in this thread were going off of memory from seeing your post a few weeks ago.

As Tom mentioned, we also traded some allocation money away. To throw out a a completely speculative number, I'll say $100k in each of the two separate trades, for a total of $800k AM spent.

If we were actually awarded a full $1M in AM as an expansion team, that would leave us with ~$200k left, which is around the rumored number of "cap space" we had when the summer transfer window opened.

And that's how, from memory, I completely prognosticated my way into the $1M AM prediction.

This post is dripping in speculation. Employ my conclusions with caution.

EDIT: Btw, Mena would have cost us a net $120k in AM, because his $200k salary bumped Watson-Siriboe's ~$80k off of the top 20. Which means, if any of this is close to correct, we are carrying somewhere between $50k and $150k AM in the wallet right now. (Plus an additional $150k next year still leaves us slightly short of the amount we need to buy Mix down with regular AM.)

EDIT 2: With Williams being claimed by Toronto, looks like we freed up another $65k (Losing Williams $125k from the equation and adding back in KWS's $80k).

That entirely squares with my conjecture.

Would you mind putting that in my thread? I kind of want that thread to be the central location for salary cap discussion, and this is pretty valuable.

With our buy down of Nemec's salary at the end of this year we should be good, in terms of salary cap, to fortify our backline a bit.

As much as I would like Angelino to stay next year, he is simply too good. My best guess is he either goes on loan to a low/midtable premier league club or challenges for minutes at Man City. That kid is the real freaking deal man, if his development continues as it has been, I can see him on Spain's euro 2016 squad.

Of course that leaves us with another hole on at the back, but fortunately enough salary cap to actually do a half decent job of patching it.

We probably keep Facey though, he's never going to be good enough for the premier league. While CFG would never do anything that would jeopardize the development of someone like Angelino, Facey will probably be here for awhile.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

That entirely squares with my conjecture.

Would you mind putting that in my thread? I kind of want that thread to be the central location for salary cap discussion, and this is pretty valuable.

With our buy down of Nemec's salary at the end of this year we should be good, in terms of salary cap, to fortify our backline a bit.

As much as I would like Angelino to stay next year, he is simply too good. My best guess is he either goes on loan to a low/midtable premier league club or challenges for minutes at Man City. That kid is the real freaking deal man, if his development continues as it has been, I can see him on Spain's euro 2016 squad.

Of course that leaves us with another hole on at the back, but fortunately enough salary cap to actually do a half decent job of patching it.

We probably keep Facey though, he's never going to be good enough for the premier league. While CFG would never do anything that would jeopardize the development of someone like Angelino, Facey will probably be here for awhile.

Hey man, don't tie so much of your self-worth up in that thread. You're a valuable part of our community no matter where people talk about salary. Chin up, champ.