NYCFC 2016 SALARY CAP ANALYSIS

[Viewfrom226]

What I cannot figure out is what is the incentive for a player to graduate. I do not see any benefit for him. But most seem to do it when they have the minutes.

This article makes it sound like the league decides who graduates.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110...eakdown-generation-adidas-players-bring-short

This article, cited earlier, refers to the player "determining", but I suspect it may have been referring to the player "determining" in the sense that it based on the player's performance, not literally his choice?

http://ussoccerplayers.com/2010/01/mccabe-explains-generation-adidas.html

#MLSRules

 

[Ulrich]

I found two articles, both slightly old, that agree that it takes about 1500-1600 minutes in a season (or 1000 each in consecutive seasons) for a typical player to graduate. Keepers remain GA longer, until they play 2o00 minutes in one season.
http://usasoccer.blogspot.com/2009/09/graduating-from-generation-adidas.html
http://www.brotherlygame.com/2011/9...who-is-set-to-graduate-from-generation-adidas

Jack has 635 minutes to date with another potential 1170 minutes to go. As noted it is his choice. Barring a further injury, it looks like he'll be in a position where he could legitimately choose either way.

What I cannot figure out is what is the incentive for a player to graduate. I do not see any benefit for him. But most seem to do it when they have the minutes.

I think the "incentive" is where they want the regular minutes. "It's up to them" is a badly worded way of saying if the player is good enough to force their way into the lineup (i.e. How quickly they grasp the skills/concepts). Same as, it's up to me how quickly I learn to speak Mandarin (never) - I could spend 10 hours a day immersed in it and achieve the goal in X-months, or spend no time and achieve it in X-plus-infinity-months.

 

[mgarbowski]

This article makes it sound like the league decides who graduates.

I think the "incentive" is where they want the regular minutes.

This makes a lot more sense and is probably how it in fact works.

 

[SoupInNYC]

So I was doing a bit of research into whether or not GAM rolls over year-to-year on the MLS site and I may be completely missing it but it doesn't appear to clarify whether or not it does. The site clearly states TAM can roll over, but I haven't found anything similar for GAM. Though based on the nature of GAM, I'm assuming it does.

But what I did uncover that I found real interesting (and apologize if this has been brought up before and I just missed it) is that if we don't fill spots 27 and 28 on our roster, then we receive additional allocation money.
*This is according to the wikipedia page linked below, and not the MLS site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_money

Right now, our roster sits at 26 spots, with Gomez on the DL, which may put us down to 25. Could we possibly be "trading in" two of our non-cap roster spots for additional money? How much GAM does this give us? Is it pro-rated for the second half of the season?

I'm assuming the above questions are all items that wouldn't be known outside of the club/MLS and isn't reported on.

Additionally, I'm not even certain if what I found is accurate as I cannot seem to find it on the MLS page, but thought I'd bring it up.

 

[adam]

So I was doing a bit of research into whether or not GAM rolls over year-to-year on the MLS site and I may be completely missing it but it doesn't appear to clarify whether or not it does. The site clearly states TAM can roll over, but I haven't found anything similar for GAM. Though based on the nature of GAM, I'm assuming it does.

But what I did uncover that I found real interesting (and apologize if this has been brought up before and I just missed it) is that if we don't fill spots 27 and 28 on our roster, then we receive additional allocation money.
*This is according to the wikipedia page linked below, and not the MLS site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_money

Right now, our roster sits at 26 spots, with Gomez on the DL, which may put us down to 25. Could we possibly be "trading in" two of our non-cap roster spots for additional money? How much GAM does this give us? Is it pro-rated for the second half of the season?

I'm assuming the above questions are all items that wouldn't be known outside of the club/MLS and isn't reported on.

Additionally, I'm not even certain if what I found is accurate as I cannot seem to find it on the MLS page, but thought I'd bring it up.

Nice find on the roster spots, if it's true. I really wish they laid out all the rules. As convoluted as they are, it would be a fun puzzle to solve. That's some of the fun I have with the NFL and figuring out what players could fit on the team by their contracts against the cap for the current and future years. There's a whole industry of websites and pundits just for that, and it would fill a lot of space and discussion on MLS geared sports talk.

I would be shocked if GAM didn't roll over, considering how much could be earned in transfer fees and trades it wouldn't make sense for it to be use it or lose it.

 

[Ulrich]

So I was doing a bit of research into whether or not GAM rolls over year-to-year on the MLS site and I may be completely missing it but it doesn't appear to clarify whether or not it does. The site clearly states TAM can roll over, but I haven't found anything similar for GAM. Though based on the nature of GAM, I'm assuming it does.

But what I did uncover that I found real interesting (and apologize if this has been brought up before and I just missed it) is that if we don't fill spots 27 and 28 on our roster, then we receive additional allocation money.
*This is according to the wikipedia page linked below, and not the MLS site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_money

Right now, our roster sits at 26 spots, with Gomez on the DL, which may put us down to 25. Could we possibly be "trading in" two of our non-cap roster spots for additional money? How much GAM does this give us? Is it pro-rated for the second half of the season?

I'm assuming the above questions are all items that wouldn't be known outside of the club/MLS and isn't reported on.

Additionally, I'm not even certain if what I found is accurate as I cannot seem to find it on the MLS page, but thought I'd bring it up.

Interesting. I think we've been short a player all season. Maybe CFG finally did hire a dedicated Cap guru?!?

 

[adam]

Interesting. I think we've been short a player all season. Maybe CFG finally did hire a dedicated Cap guru?!?

Nah, I'm still at my old job . Though I would moonlight for them for super cheap if it meant I got to see the recipe for the secret sauce. Hope you read that intern, I'm gunning for you!

 

[FootyLovin]

I really wish they laid out all the rules.

I'm half convinced they don't do this because they've never written it down or they don't even exist. If all the rules were actually written down then (a) the breaking of the rules for a certain club in sunny southern Cal would be clear and furiously fought and (b) we'd have them.

Think about point b for a minute. If there were finalized rules (beyond what we already know), then the clubs would need them in order to work within them. If every club had a copy they would need at least let's say 3-5 employees and probably more to have access. With the number of teams in the league, that's 50-100 people around the country who could leak that info. At some point, that would get out.

I don't think there are any rules beyond Wikipedia.

 

[Kjbert]

I'm half convinced they don't do this because they've never written it down or they don't even exist. If all the rules were actually written down then (a) the breaking of the rules for a certain club in sunny southern Cal would be clear and furiously fought and (b) we'd have them.

Think about point b for a minute. If there were finalized rules (beyond what we already know), then the clubs would need them in order to work within them. If every club had a copy they would need at least let's say 3-5 employees and probably more to have access. With the number of teams in the league, that's 50-100 people around the country who could leak that info. At some point, that would get out.

I don't think there are any rules beyond Wikipedia.

Or maybe it is the reverse. Maybe the "rules" actually work in LAG's favor but they don't release them because then it would force the crappy franchises to spend more money

 

[adam]

I'm half convinced they don't do this because they've never written it down or they don't even exist. If all the rules were actually written down then (a) the breaking of the rules for a certain club in sunny southern Cal would be clear and furiously fought and (b) we'd have them.

Think about point b for a minute. If there were finalized rules (beyond what we already know), then the clubs would need them in order to work within them. If every club had a copy they would need at least let's say 3-5 employees and probably more to have access. With the number of teams in the league, that's 50-100 people around the country who could leak that info. At some point, that would get out.

I don't think there are any rules beyond Wikipedia.

50-100 people with copies of the rules, and that's for every season. If management changes, more people see it. We know NYCFCfan has his sources, can you get us a copy??? That would be a real pigeon coop if you did!

 

[Ulrich]

I'm half convinced they don't do this because they've never written it down or they don't even exist. If all the rules were actually written down then (a) the breaking of the rules for a certain club in sunny southern Cal would be clear and furiously fought and (b) we'd have them.

Think about point b for a minute. If there were finalized rules (beyond what we already know), then the clubs would need them in order to work within them. If every club had a copy they would need at least let's say 3-5 employees and probably more to have access. With the number of teams in the league, that's 50-100 people around the country who could leak that info. At some point, that would get out.

I don't think there are any rules beyond Wikipedia.

I think the league runs on a concept of availability. If a particular player becomes available then the rules "allow" the acquisition. I guarantee that if tomorrow Messi and Ronaldo and Bale all said they were willing to play for NYCFC this transfer period, but the paperwork is only good today and their salary needs had to be met Cap-be-damned, then NYCFC would be the first MLS team to have 6DPs and nobody would blink.

 

[adam]

I think the league runs on a concept of availability. If a particular player becomes available then the rules "allow" the acquisition. I guarantee that if tomorrow Messi and Ronaldo and Bale all said they were willing to play for NYCFC this transfer period, but the paperwork is only good today and their salary needs had to be met Cap-be-damned, then NYCFC would be the first MLS team to have 6DPs and nobody would blink.

You know if they were open and honest about it I wouldn't care. We're all talking about them breaking or bending the rules. Just lay them all out, and every once in a while when the league can get a Beckham or eventually a Messi, they come out and say we're making an exemption and it's for the good of the league. Then we all know what's going on and can analyze accordingly, but always have the caveat; "you know they can bend the rule because this looks too good to pass up." But we'd also be fairly confident rules are not being bent in lets say a trade of Mullins, but we'd see how it affects each teams cap more clearly.

 

[Gene]

I think the league runs on a concept of availability. If a particular player becomes available then the rules "allow" the acquisition. I guarantee that if tomorrow Messi and Ronaldo and Bale all said they were willing to play for NYCFC this transfer period, but the paperwork is only good today and their salary needs had to be met Cap-be-damned, then NYCFC would be the first MLS team to have 6DPs and nobody would blink.

 

[Gotham Gator]

So I was doing a bit of research into whether or not GAM rolls over year-to-year on the MLS site and I may be completely missing it but it doesn't appear to clarify whether or not it does. The site clearly states TAM can roll over, but I haven't found anything similar for GAM. Though based on the nature of GAM, I'm assuming it does.

I would bet that whether GAM rolls over has something to do with how it was obtained. If it's the GAM for missing the playoffs or being in Champions League, then I bet it doesn't roll over because the whole idea is to give teams a way to upgrade for that season. If it's the GAM from selling a player overseas then it almost has to roll over - at least for some limited number of years. After all, what good is $650K in GAM to New Jersey for Miazga if they have to spend it all in one year. They'd be forced to bring a couple guys in for the $650K in year one and then have no clear way to pay them in years 2 and 3.

 

[joe]

I would bet that whether GAM rolls over has something to do with how it was obtained. If it's the GAM for missing the playoffs or being in Champions League, then I bet it doesn't roll over because the whole idea is to give teams a way to upgrade for that season. If it's the GAM from selling a player overseas then it almost has to roll over - at least for some limited number of years. After all, what good is $650K in GAM to New Jersey for Miazga if they have to spend it all in one year. They'd be forced to bring a couple guys in for the $650K in year one and then have no clear way to pay them in years 2 and 3.

MLS gonna be the only league where the league accountants make more than the players

 

[FootyLovin]

You know if they were open and honest about it I wouldn't care. We're all talking about them breaking or bending the rules. Just lay them all out, and every once in a while when the league can get a Beckham or eventually a Messi, they come out and say we're making an exemption and it's for the good of the league. Then we all know what's going on and can analyze accordingly, but always have the caveat; "you know they can bend the rule because this looks too good to pass up." But we'd also be fairly confident rules are not being bent in lets say a trade of Mullins, but we'd see how it affects each teams cap more clearly.

The problem with making that kind of exception clear to the public is that they then put themselves into a PR nightmare when a team wants to make a deal but MLS/Garber doesn't think the player is big enough to merit the exception.