Talles on instagram has two stories that are basically saying "That's clearly a penalty!!" with video footage
MLS - April 2 - Toronto (Away)
- Thread starter LionNYC
- Start date
PRO concedes that overturning the call was a mistake. Throws the VAR official under the bus and implicitly absolves the field official because the proper angle was not made available to him:
"The Video Assistant Referee (VAR) incorrectly determined the awarding of a penalty kick to be a clear and obvious error, as the selection of camera angles examined did not reveal foul contact from Toronto FC’s Kosi Thompson on New York City FC striker Talles Magno.
While an available camera angle did reveal foul contact, that alternative camera angle was not examined by the VAR, nor was it made available to the referee on the pitch-side monitor."
proreferees.com
"The Video Assistant Referee (VAR) incorrectly determined the awarding of a penalty kick to be a clear and obvious error, as the selection of camera angles examined did not reveal foul contact from Toronto FC’s Kosi Thompson on New York City FC striker Talles Magno.
While an available camera angle did reveal foul contact, that alternative camera angle was not examined by the VAR, nor was it made available to the referee on the pitch-side monitor."
PRO Statement: TOR vs NYC – Professional Referee Organization ®
proreferees.com
It's frustrating because it would have changed the complexion of the match.
Hopefully it’s just bad call/bad luck/bad bounce variance which will even itself out over time. Let’s get the better side of variance when it really matters.
Toronto basically scored on their only chance of the game and got a fortuitous own goal. MLS win right there.
what’s even better about this is Talles chatting back and forth with basically everyone who says “yup, clear penalty” except for this guy:
the guy says “it was nothing,you fell over your own leg” and talles responds “right! I’m an idiot” hahahahaha
The silver lining is, wouldn’t you rather be us than Toronto? The better team that got unlucky, rather than vice versa
That angle not being made available is awful, but no part of the other angles show a “clear and obvious” error being made and that’s the bigger issue I have.PRO concedes that overturning the call was a mistake. Throws the VAR official under the bus and implicitly absolves the field official because the proper angle was not made available to him:
"The Video Assistant Referee (VAR) incorrectly determined the awarding of a penalty kick to be a clear and obvious error, as the selection of camera angles examined did not reveal foul contact from Toronto FC’s Kosi Thompson on New York City FC striker Talles Magno.
While an available camera angle did reveal foul contact, that alternative camera angle was not examined by the VAR, nor was it made available to the referee on the pitch-side monitor."
PRO Statement: TOR vs NYC – Professional Referee Organization ®
This is one of the issues I have with instant replay in sports. They are supposed to correct refereeing mistakes or oversights that are indisputable but instead, refs are often thinking they see something from the clips they are looking at instead of only overturning when there is indisputable evidence.
Based on the angles they were given, nothing should have been overturned. Also if no penalty was the original call. Sure, those angles don’t show contact being made, but they don’t show contact not being made.
I agree. I did not see any replays that seemed clearly to indicate (however wrongly) that there's no contact. Nor did I see any replays that clearly showed contact. What I saw were multiple views from which you could infer that either he was clipped or that he tripped himself. But nothing that pushed you either way, apart from what you wanted to see.
My theory is the VAR thought it was at best slight contact, it was near 50-50 whether Magno or the keeper got the ball first, and even if Magno got it, he had to control the ball, stop himself, and then beat probably both a defender and Bono so it was not a great scoring opportunity. Then the VAR did not go against the rules, but she did see what she wanted to see to suggest the overturn. None of which should matter. Hell, most penalty awards are extreme over-compensation, and someone we know pointed out.
Penalties are too generous a reward. We have a solution... and it involves running
Almost every penalty rewards attack with a vastly higher chance of scoring than they would have otherwise had. It's time to make it fairer
theathletic.com
As to VAR, generally, I've never been in favor. I think it adds as many errors as it fixes, but for some reason people are willing to add time for no clear net benefit, because "you have to be able to fix the obvious errors." Except they don't always do that, often add obvious errors, and spend a lot of time changing calls nobody even wanted to be reviewed. But that one call that was clearly wrong 3 months ago was fixed, so let's just keep going and whine about how they should do better even though years of experience in multiple sports has proven that's not possible.
Martins certainly hasn't been plug-and-play, but I think he'll be alright. He just needs a little more time to integrate. Plus we were a wreck at the back with Acevedo playing out of position and Gloster being ... well, being Gloster. No one other then Callens seemed to know where they were supposed to be or what they were supposed to be doing back there.
So, I wouldn't judge him too harshly on yesterday. I was confused, too.
Plus we're all spoiled by the chemistry between Chanot and Callens. They've just been so, so good. I highly doubt anybody could step in and create the same level of play.
I think this may reflect how well we played in the middle of the park. There were stretches of some really lovely soccer (I'm not using "football" because the Limeys have me all fired up over the World Cup draw LOL).
(go view it on youtube. This is exactly why VAR and using "one angle" is crap. Show every angle possible.
I agree with this, but also: Early in the season, I care more about process than results. If the process is good, the wins will come. If the process is bad, odds are the losses will come at some point. We saw that last year. Everyone said we were playing the best football of anyone in the league, and by the end we were the last ones standing. I'd rather see our process be good. The goals will come.
I think Taty's situation may be weighing on us a little, too. Teams need clarity in order to be consistent, and consistently at their best. It's tough to be looking at Taty to score goals out of the corner of your eye while thinking about when he's going out the door in the back of your mind.
So yeah, process: Take him out of the current squad and look at the roster we have left, and I have to be honest -- it looks pretty damn good. That's doubly true after seeing what Gabriel Pereira can bring to the side once he settles in. Ditto for Martins.
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Thanks for posing that. I was not familiar with that story.
Yeah I'm not worried about Martins -- he had a bad game this week, it happens to everyone. He's been pretty decent already for us in previous games and I think he'll be fine.
As for Taty -- maybe. These guys are professionals, though. They've been through similar sagas in their careers. I would imagine they know how to handle it.
