MLS Cup Playoffs - November 23 - Red Bulls (Home)

[ZYanksRule]

Jovan showed little, but had the least time to show anything. I’ll disagree on Fernandez - he always did something, even if his team defense was erratic.

I like Wolf as a player, but let’s be honest - his output was lacking the second half of the year. Maybe some rest would have helped and would have given chances to others.

Cushing desperate is at the heart of my biggest complaint. This team spent a ton of money on young players but had a desperate coach more concerned with stopping goals than scoring goals bury them on the bench. The coach doesn’t match the squad. We can disagree, but I’d rather watch young potential - even if it fails - than Sporting Kansas City.

I agree with you that we should have been more developmental this year. We were never winning MLS Cup this season, so maybe the right move was to go more developmental. But we play in New York and there is pressure to win. The organization never would have accepted another season without postseason soccer, and Nick had too much pressure to win in order to actually be more developmental.

I understand your point that he should have played those guys more in the regular season, but we'd have been screaming bloody murder if we weren't getting results because he was playing ineffective players. The fanbase and organization demand wins.

Nick's job was to put the players on the pitch who had the best chance to win games. I had absolutely no criticisms of who he played this postseason run.

And let's also be honest. Nick dragged this team to the conference semifinal -- he's not going anywhere. Many of us (myself included) still have some reservations about whether he's the right man for this job, but it was a successful result to the season despite losing to the Red Bulls. He's not going anywhere.

 

[KevinJRogers]

I understand your point that he should have played those guys more in the regular season, but we'd have been screaming bloody murder if we weren't getting results because he was playing ineffective players. The fanbase and organization demand wins

Anyone in Nick's chair would have had the same damned if you do, damned if you don't dilemma. It's inevitable.

I couldn't help but think of a story in the Chris Matthews book All Politics is Local. Tip O'Neill's best friend was a fellow congressman from Boston (I can't remember his name) who said:

"If I stay in Washington, they say I'm too snooty to come home. If I come home, they want to know why I'm not in Washington doing my job. If I wear a nice suit, they think I'm on the take. If I don't, they say I dress like a slob and I'm an embarrassment. If I go to church on Sunday, they say I'm a hypocrite, and if I don't, they say I'm a heathen. You just can't win."

It just comes with the territory, I guess. Anyone in a position of authority is going to get the same business. I give him credit for having clear ideas, executing them, and producing a very decent result in a challenging transition year.

And I should add, personally, I still think had Malachi not gone down and we had that super pacey, super smart, super energetic left wing, we would have been a nightmare to deal with by the last third of the season. He'll be back. The trio of forwards we brought in got gently blooded this campaign and should be ready for more action in 2025. Mounsef and Zo are known quantities.

We're solid everywhere else and should be able to spackle any issues in the next churn. And we managed to fight through to a conference semifinal with what we had at hand, and while we got beat, we didn't exactly get blown out.

I'm feeling pretty good.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

I agree with you that we should have been more developmental this year. We were never winning MLS Cup this season, so maybe the right move was to go more developmental. But we play in New York and there is pressure to win. The organization never would have accepted another season without postseason soccer, and Nick had too much pressure to win in order to actually be more developmental.

I understand your point that he should have played those guys more in the regular season, but we'd have been screaming bloody murder if we weren't getting results because he was playing ineffective players. The fanbase and organization demand wins.

Nick's job was to put the players on the pitch who had the best chance to win games. I had absolutely no criticisms of who he played this postseason run.

And let's also be honest. Nick dragged this team to the conference semifinal -- he's not going anywhere. Many of us (myself included) still have some reservations about whether he's the right man for this job, but it was a successful result to the season despite losing to the Red Bulls. He's not going anywhere.

Fair points.

I’m not sure I agree that he dragged the team to the conference semi-finals. I believe a case could be made he made it more difficult. He parked the bus twice in Cincy and Freese kept us alive in the third game, saving us.

He also DID NOT SUBSTITUTE UNTIL MINUTE 74 today. Down 2-0, what was the rationale? He also dropped an attacker for an 8. Why?

Cushing clearly does certain things well. I just believe he is a poor fit for this team’s construction. A conservative coach that hasn’t developed young attackers needs a different roster and a different job.

 

[ZYanksRule]

Fair points.

I’m not sure I agree that he dragged the team to the conference semi-finals. I believe a case could be made he made it more difficult. He parked the bus twice in Cincy and Freese kept us alive in the third game, saving us.

He also DID NOT SUBSTITUTE UNTIL MINUTE 74 today. Down 2-0, what was the rationale? He also dropped an attacker for an 8. Why?

Cushing clearly does certain things well. I just believe he is a poor fit for this team’s construction. A conservative coach that hasn’t developed young attackers needs a different roster and a different job.

Perea was brought on to be a winger, which is another example of how little Cushing trusted Ojeda, Jovan, and Julian.

I think it's a fair question to ask whether Nick helped or hurt overall. I also think Cushing has made a conference final, a conference semifinal, and a League Cup quarterfinal as NYCFC head coach, so he's clearly doing something right in knockout competitions. We overachieved in Leagues Cup AND twice in MLS Cup Playoffs under him. I don't think that's an accident

I'm so conflicted, because I do agree with you that he's a lousy developmental coach which makes him a lousy fit for this roster. All things being equal, I don't think he's the coach who will bring us our second star. But I'd be shocked if NYCFC fired him after the results of this season.

I think the only way he's fired is if David Lee is upset with how Cushing used the players he signed; if there is a poor working relationship between the two of them, kind of like what happened in Philly.

 

[KevinJRogers]

I think the only way he's fired is if David Lee is upset with how Cushing used the players he signed; if there is a poor working relationship between the two of them, kind of like what happened in Philly.

If you count his time as the interim coach, Nick is our longest-tenured gaffer. It would be truly shocking were he to be fired at this point in the project, after getting us so far.

I'm so conflicted, because I do agree with you that he's a lousy developmental coach which makes him a lousy fit for this roster.

I know you and Brooklyn Blue and a few other people have expressed the same sentiment. I can't agree. But it's the middle of the night so I'll save it for my tea time tomorrow.

 

[LionNYC]

Perea was brought on to be a winger, which is another example of how little Cushing trusted Ojeda, Jovan, and Julian.

I think it's a fair question to ask whether Nick helped or hurt overall. I also think Cushing has made a conference final, a conference semifinal, and a League Cup quarterfinal as NYCFC head coach, so he's clearly doing something right in knockout competitions. We overachieved in Leagues Cup AND twice in MLS Cup Playoffs under him. I don't think that's an accident

I'm so conflicted, because I do agree with you that he's a lousy developmental coach which makes him a lousy fit for this roster. All things being equal, I don't think he's the coach who will bring us our second star. But I'd be shocked if NYCFC fired him after the results of this season.

I think the only way he's fired is if David Lee is upset with how Cushing used the players he signed; if there is a poor working relationship between the two of them, kind of like what happened in Philly.

I don’t think David Lee has a say in whether Nick is fired. I don’t think anyone in New York does. It’s all just Manchester pulling the strings.

 

[Revfugee]

Perea was brought on to be a winger, which is another example of how little Cushing trusted Ojeda, Jovan, and Julian.

I think it's a fair question to ask whether Nick helped or hurt overall. I also think Cushing has made a conference final, a conference semifinal, and a League Cup quarterfinal as NYCFC head coach, so he's clearly doing something right in knockout competitions. We overachieved in Leagues Cup AND twice in MLS Cup Playoffs under him. I don't think that's an accident

I'm so conflicted, because I do agree with you that he's a lousy developmental coach which makes him a lousy fit for this roster. All things being equal, I don't think he's the coach who will bring us our second star. But I'd be shocked if NYCFC fired him after the results of this season.

I think the only way he's fired is if David Lee is upset with how Cushing used the players he signed; if there is a poor working relationship between the two of them, kind of like what happened in Philly.

It does definitely appear that these guys are at cross-purposes. But it’s up to CFG to give Nick the leash to develop Ojeda, Frrnandez, etc. (Jovan can pound sad IMHO). I wish we’d seen them more.

As a developmental coach if we are going to bash Nick over the imports we have to give him a little credit for making the most of spare parts like O’Toole, Mitja and especially Haak . But none of those guys are expected to provide offense.

I thought Fernandez showed well last night. Makes me wish we’d seen him more this year.

Like everyone else I think we ended up where we deserved to, or maybe slightly ahead (we DID oust Cincy after all). Just wish it weren’t against RBNJ.

Finally, god I hate Tolkin, even with the USMNT. I hope he goes to Europe, like, Austria or Belgium. And fails.

ETA: IMHO Haak was the best player on the pitch for either side, Though Coronel had a pretty strong match.

 

[dark knight]

I agree with you that we should have been more developmental this year. We were never winning MLS Cup this season, so maybe the right move was to go more developmental. But we play in New York and there is pressure to win. The organization never would have accepted another season without postseason soccer, and Nick had too much pressure to win in order to actually be more developmental.

I understand your point that he should have played those guys more in the regular season, but we'd have been screaming bloody murder if we weren't getting results because he was playing ineffective players. The fanbase and organization demand wins.

Nick's job was to put the players on the pitch who had the best chance to win games. I had absolutely no criticisms of who he played this postseason run.

And let's also be honest. Nick dragged this team to the conference semifinal -- he's not going anywhere. Many of us (myself included) still have some reservations about whether he's the right man for this job, but it was a successful result to the season despite losing to the Red Bulls. He's not going anywhere.

He dragged this team to the conference semifinal? Meh - he’s done nothing to be given so much credit as far as I’m concerned. He needs to go.

Once again really disappointed with Santi and I hate all his play acting antics (in general - not so much yesterday). I’m feeling ready to move on from him too
even though as he enters his prime he may get better on both. Not sure we are going to win much if he’s one of our best players.

 

[Shwafta]

If this makes any sense, yesterday before the game started I felt we could beat Red Bull, but couldn't win a conference Semi-final.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

Perea was brought on to be a winger, which is another example of how little Cushing trusted Ojeda, Jovan, and Julian.

I think it's a fair question to ask whether Nick helped or hurt overall. I also think Cushing has made a conference final, a conference semifinal, and a League Cup quarterfinal as NYCFC head coach, so he's clearly doing something right in knockout competitions. We overachieved in Leagues Cup AND twice in MLS Cup Playoffs under him. I don't think that's an accident

I'm so conflicted, because I do agree with you that he's a lousy developmental coach which makes him a lousy fit for this roster. All things being equal, I don't think he's the coach who will bring us our second star. But I'd be shocked if NYCFC fired him after the results of this season.

I think the only way he's fired is if David Lee is upset with how Cushing used the players he signed; if there is a poor working relationship between the two of them, kind of like what happened in Philly.

I am not sure how much credit Nick gets for that first conference final. That was more institutional memory than a coaching master class.

I know I am repeating myself, but it has to be Cushing or Lee - not both. If we want to win now, great. If we want to spend on youth and be erratic with promise, great. In this league with the salary cap, I don't believe it is possible to do both.

 

[Kenny]

For me the most disappointing aspect was not on the field, but off. What the hell happened? The fans of the supposedly irrelevant Red Bulls were louder all night, even early when it was 0-0. Not that falling behind is an excuse either. I think this is not a consistent problem, it was just last night. Almost like the SG and crowd just not into it or gave up from the get go. Plus the throwing of objects. Very disappointing all around.

 

[ZYanksRule]

For me the most disappointing aspect was not on the field, but off. What the hell happened? The fans of the supposedly irrelevant Red Bulls were louder all night, even early when it was 0-0. Not that falling behind is an excuse either. I think this is not a consistent problem, it was just last night. Almost like the SG and crowd just not into it or gave up from the get go. Plus the throwing of objects. Very disappointing all around.

I was in 107, right next to Supporters, and after the second goal they stopped singing. The drumming continued, but there was very little singing. Even in that section, I could hear the Red Bulls supporters.

Let's be honest -- let's call it straight -- our supporters are very immature. Throwing things at Red Bulls players taunting us postgame, getting quiet in an elimination game because we're sad -- we really don't have a great supporters section. I watched the end of the LAFC game last night, they were singing in the 120th minute while trailing. Why can't we? The crowd was waiting to explode -- even in the 2nd half, you could feel the entire place was waiting to explode if we scored. It just never came.

Also some of the blame here goes to NYCFC. They priced tickets for last night absurdly high, and it sure looks like a lot of NYCFC fans stayed home. There was a ton of Red Bulls fans there -- it was at least 70-30.

I'm so mad at the supporters for how they acted after the game. I know Tolkin was taunting. I know that sucks. But you can't start throwing things on the field. I loved the way Maxi handled it. He went over and defended us. That's the way it should be. Throwing cans and bottles onto the field is so childish and immature. It was a humiliating way for the season to end, and it's not an isolated incident. We need to learn how to lose with class.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I don’t think David Lee has a say in whether Nick is fired. I don’t think anyone in New York does. It’s all just Manchester pulling the strings.

You may be right in that when Ronny was in trouble in early 2021, it was a CFG executive who came to Minnesota to take stock and see if the coaching change needed to happen.

I do believe the New York City-based executives have authority on many things, including roster decisions. I would assume they receive help in scouting from the CFG network, which perhaps creates pressure points to take certain players. If David Lee does not have wide authority on his own roster, that's definitely part of the problem.

I do think CFG is generally a good thing for NYCFC, but I completely agree that the scouting and signing of young players has been subpar the last few years. Seems to me that MLS is growing and improving at a rate that is maybe surprising CFG and our scouting network? We have not been signing players at the kind of ambitious platform other teams are.

 

[canchon]

NYCFC could score when pressing or in an open game.
NYCFC could also defend when needed.
The one thing NYCFC couldn’t do was break down a bunkered in low block.

Game was over on a wonderstrike and a fortuitous bounce on a set piece. After that we all knew that we’d see the “20+ shot high xG zero goals” result.

Sucks that it’s RBNJ who did this but it tracks to NYCFC’s weakness.

 

[FootyLovin]

Game was over on a wonderstrike and a fortuitous bounce on a set piece. After that we all knew that we’d see the “20+ shot high xG zero goals” result.

I don’t think that’s fair. We had at least 3 high quality goal opportunities after 2-0. In the end, they made clean contact on theirs. We scuffed ours. That shit happens. It’s why 1-game elimination is inherently unpredictable. We do need better offense in future. But I was in no way sure we would see zero goals from our squad at home, even facing a bunker.

But last night on field, their execution > our execution. Off field, their supporters > our supporters. Can’t really criticize the team when we were so completely beaten as the fans. Of course, if any NYCFC player came out and said NY fans were < NJ fans, they’d be crucified. But they’d be right.

Respect where respect is due.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

For me the most disappointing aspect was not on the field, but off. What the hell happened? The fans of the supposedly irrelevant Red Bulls were louder all night, even early when it was 0-0. Not that falling behind is an excuse either. I think this is not a consistent problem, it was just last night. Almost like the SG and crowd just not into it or gave up from the get go. Plus the throwing of objects. Very disappointing all around.

I believe this was a function of it being a playoff derby in Queens.

Red Bulls for many years were the only soccer team in the City. For anyone wanting to cheer for a team, that was the only option for 20+ years. They have more 'long term' fans than NYCFC. However, their stadium is in New Jersey and is terrible to get to for anyone that actuallly lives in New York. Their attendance is generally poor because they only pull Jersey based fans (and opposing team fans).

This game was a perfect storm. All the Red Bulls fans that live in New York and would never travel to New Jersey were able to come to Citi Field. They had saved up years of watching on television to be able to finally attend, without hassle, in person. It surprised me at first, but it made sense when I considered the circumstances - and I give props to their fans who were loud and sang regardless of section. They have years of experience on NYCFC and they showed it.

Hopefully, after we get our permanent stadium, we can build up the experience that they have. And, steal all the new fans who will realize that going to Etihad Park is easier and more fun than shithole Harrison.

 

[dark knight]

I believe this was a function of it being a playoff derby in Queens.

Red Bulls for many years were the only soccer team in the City. For anyone wanting to cheer for a team, that was the only option for 20+ years. They have more 'long term' fans than NYCFC. However, their stadium is in New Jersey and is terrible to get to for anyone that actuallly lives in New York. Their attendance is generally poor because they only pull Jersey based fans (and opposing team fans).

This game was a perfect storm. All the Red Bulls fans that live in New York and would never travel to New Jersey were able to come to Citi Field. They had saved up years of watching on television to be able to finally attend, without hassle, in person. It surprised me at first, but it made sense when I considered the circumstances - and I give props to their fans who were loud and sang regardless of section. They have years of experience on NYCFC and they showed it.

Hopefully, after we get our permanent stadium, we can build up the experience that they have. And, steal all the new fans who will realize that going to Etihad Park is easier and more fun than shithole Harrison.

I don’t really buy that - getting to Harrison is not that big of a deal and there’s good food nearby over the bridge.

I chalk it up to playing in Queens, long suffering fans gaining some hope by taking out the top seed, and if you’re still a fan of the team after the ways they’ve been a horrible franchise - you probably have some resilience. It’s not Harrison that sucks - it’s the owners.

 

[Victors87]

My two cents - We would have won if we played in Yankee stadium

 

[RunningWise]

it took me this long to recover from the game enough to come on this forum. To be honest, it felt like I went to an away game on Saturday. From start to finish their supporters were louder and to be honest, I think they bought all the seats. Most of the regulars around me weren’t there and by 5 minutes in I realized I was surrounded by RB fans.

Add to that where we need to do better with our chants and they created an environment where the home field advantage was gone. Do we need a better schedule of the chants or better songs? I’m not sure what the answer is but that experience sucked

 

[ZYanksRule]

I don’t really buy that - getting to Harrison is not that big of a deal and there’s good food nearby over the bridge.

I chalk it up to playing in Queens, long suffering fans gaining some hope by taking out the top seed, and if you’re still a fan of the team after the ways they’ve been a horrible franchise - you probably have some resilience. It’s not Harrison that sucks - it’s the owners.

I think there were a lot of Red Bulls fans there because it was a postseason HRD. It's one of the biggest games in the history of their franchise. And there were tickets available on Ticketmaster, both resale and regular tickets.

I also wonder if NYCFC fans got some sticker shock from the prices. The tickets were priced so high for this game, and that might have given some fans pause, opening up tickets to Red Bulls fans willing to pay those prices.

You could argue it's one of the biggest home games in our history but when you've never won MLS Cup, I think it was a little more intense and important for the Red Bulls fans than for us.