MLS - September 22 - Red Bulls (Away) [Rescheduled]

[JayH]

You were either listening to our crew or the Red Bulls crew - probably the later as ESPN typically goes with the home team. I read on Twitter that Shep Messing was doubtful it was a penalty, and that guy is the biggest Red Bull homer you'll find.

I was watching on ESPN+ as well. Even Shep was opposed to the Parks red card - argued that it either wasn't deserved or was of the "light" variety. As for the PK, I may have been light-headed by the situation so can't recall for certain, but believe he said after watching the replays that it was a fair PK.

 

[Schwallacus]

Ref blew chunks and screwed us.

However, a few thoughts on the game itself. Tinny should've had that tap in, but also unlucky that it *just* got deflected over the crossbar. I feel like last year he buries that in the corner easily. Medina had a howler of a game, wasn't involved in too much and some poor touches here and there. He has definitely progressed this season, but it was a bad day to regress back into Mess-dina mode. Would've liked to see Santi or Thiago in for him somewhere in the 2nd half prior to the red card to Parks. After the card it made sense to take him off for Cacha.

To be fair though, I felt like we didn't create enough big chance opportunities aside from Tinny's and Taty's chances, which came within a few minutes of each other. Felt like we coasted a bit too much too early and tried to protect our lead rather than ride the end of the 1st half and try to bury them. 1.0 xG for the first half and maybe .2 xG for the second half?


Let's just rage this weekend, hopefully.

 

[JayH]

Jasson should have been on for stoppage time. He would have been fouled 6-7 times. Game over.

 

[SoupInNYC]

To be fair though, I felt like we didn't create enough big chance opportunities aside from Tinny's and Taty's chances, which came within a few minutes of each other. Felt like we coasted a bit too much too early and tried to protect our lead rather than ride the end of the 1st half and try to bury them. 1.0 xG for the first half and maybe .2 xG for the second half?

The Medina chance in the first half after Taty's goal was a big chance, but Maxi gave him a very difficult ball to handle and he sent it over. Can't blame Medina for that one really, more on Maxi, but that was a wonderful buildup that should have resulted in a shot on target, and likely in the back of the net.

 

[Schwallacus]

The Medina chance in the first half after Taty's goal was a big chance, but Maxi gave him a very difficult ball to handle and he sent it over. Can't blame Medina for that one really, more on Maxi, but that was a wonderful buildup that should have resulted in a shot on target, and likely in the back of the net.

I may be wrong but I think that was actually called offside and may not have registered on the xG, but I could be wrong. Agree it was a great buildup and chance to add to our lead when it seemed momentum was fully going our way. Tough bounce that rose just too high for Medina to really get solid contact on it.

 

[mgarbowski]

I was watching on ESPN+ as well. Even Shep was opposed to the Parks red card - argued that it either wasn't deserved or was of the "light" variety. As for the PK, I may have been light-headed by the situation so can't recall for certain, but believe he said after watching the replays that it was a fair PK.

I recorded the MSG feed while watching YES app. Checked this morning and Messing said the Parks red card was soft but not clearly unwarranted. He then said the handball was a penalty but it was a close call and he could have seen it going either way.

 

[mgarbowski]

I may be wrong but I think that was actually called offside and may not have registered on the xG, but I could be wrong. Agree it was a great buildup and chance to add to our lead when it seemed momentum was fully going our way. Tough bounce that rose just too high for Medina to really get solid contact on it.

This is correct. Medina's shot would not have counted if it went in. Maxi should have taken the shot himself , but it also would not have counted.

While bemoaning missed coulda woulda shouldas -- There was another play in the second half where I think Tinnerholm took a shot from in front of goal and it was blocked, and he had Gudi wide open to his left. He could have dummied the pass or sent it on himself for a very clear SOG.

 

[canchon]

Jasson should have been on for stoppage time. He would have been fouled 6-7 times. Game over.

jasson would have run to the corner at the end and a RBNJ player would have taken him out. Free kick NYCFC and game over.

 

[mgarbowski]

I recorded the MSG feed while watching YES app. Checked this morning and Messing said the Parks red card was soft but not clearly unwarranted. He then said the handball was a penalty but it was a close call and he could have seen it going either way.

To be honest, this is probably my view, and my complaint is that most of the weird RB calls are kind of like this: the ball on the goal line, the corner/throw in, both calls last night. None are IMO clearly 100% wrong, but every damn one goes against NYC. Really the corner/throw in was the most egregious because officials should stand behind their in game signals even if wrong.

 

[SoupInNYC]

So here's my issue with the handball call on Chanot laid out in several points:

• First, he's barely inside the box and it goes off his chest first and then off his arm. That is a call you often see not called, usually on crosses where defender goes to ground when it hits off one body part and then ricochets to the arm.
• Second, NYCFC did not gain an advantage by the hand ball. In fact, Red Bulls did. The deflection off the chest appears to be carrying the ball towards NYCFC defenders where it could have then been cleared away. Instead, the contact with the arm takes it back to a Red Bull attacker who immediately charges into the box with it.
• Third, and most importantly in my mind, Chanot appears to already be moving his arm forward before the shot is taken, likely to actually get his arm out of the way so if the shot goes wide of his body, it doesn't result in a handball. Instead, the deflection off the chest takes it right into his arm that is moving forward. When slowing down the replay to look at when the exact contact takes place, it then has the appearance that it was a deliberate handling of the ball when that just could not have been the case. I don't know how anyone could have predicted that deflection and moved their arm in advance of it to play the ball. It looks much worse when we put it in slow motion and dissect every millisecond of it.

Which that then takes me to my next point. I think the worst decision of all of this is the decision to then give him a yellow card for it. There's no way that was deliberate. Every handball does not result in a card given. Every handball in the box does not result in a yellow card given.

 

[canchon]

In all the ref controversy we are forgetting that Elfath disallowed the NYCFC second goal; I’m not really sure why but think he called a foul on Taty?

was this the right call or was it one of those “Taty gets fouled because he’s shifty but if it was Josef nobody bats an eye” calls?

 

[SoupInNYC]

I may be wrong but I think that was actually called offside and may not have registered on the xG, but I could be wrong. Agree it was a great buildup and chance to add to our lead when it seemed momentum was fully going our way. Tough bounce that rose just too high for Medina to really get solid contact on it.

Ahhh, I missed that. That Maxi dummy and Taty pass just got me too excited I think that I just glossed over the fact that there was an offsides called.

 

[SoupInNYC]

In all the ref controversy we are forgetting that Elfath disallowed the NYCFC second goal; I’m not really sure why but think he called a foul on Taty?

was this the right call or was it one of those “Taty gets fouled because he’s shifty but if it was Josef nobody bats an eye” calls?

No, he called a foul on Chanot which was a good call. Chanot had his arm wrapped around the defender there.

Though, Taty was taken down in the first half in the box because the defender had his arm wrapped around him and there wasn't anything called there.

 

[mgarbowski]

In all the ref controversy we are forgetting that Elfath disallowed the NYCFC second goal; I’m not really sure why but think he called a foul on Taty?

was this the right call or was it one of those “Taty gets fouled because he’s shifty but if it was Josef nobody bats an eye” calls?

Chanot held a RB player which kept him from tracking Taty. Maybe Taty would have been clear enough anyway, but it's a very valid call.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

In all the ref controversy we are forgetting that Elfath disallowed the NYCFC second goal; I’m not really sure why but think he called a foul on Taty?

was this the right call or was it one of those “Taty gets fouled because he’s shifty but if it was Josef nobody bats an eye” calls?

The second Taty goal was disallowed due to a foul on Chanot. As the line broke toward goal, Chanot held the Jersey defender a beat too long. It was a foul - though it would have been fine if he let him go a bit sooner.

 

[canchon]

No, he called a foul on Chanot which was a good call. Chanot had his arm wrapped around the defender there.

Though, Taty was taken down in the first half in the box because the defender had his arm wrapped around him and there wasn't anything called there.

So Taty did the Jozy Altidore but of course Elfath doesn’t call it. Ok then.

 

[SoupInNYC]

So Taty did the Jozy Altidore but of course Elfath doesn’t call it. Ok then.

Yeah, honestly I'd like to see those called consistently there. Both not called or both called.

But I will also add, that that inconsistency is fairly consistent across referees. They call it on the attacking team but rarely on the defending team. So as much as I disagree with how Elfath called those two plays and would like to roast him for it, the way he called it is fairly standard.

 

[Shwafta]

It's not that the referee gave a red to parks. I can see it being a red sometimes. But it was extremely inconsistent calls that made it so infuriating. Calls that went in one place didn't get called in others, stuff that according to his light reffing style should have been penalties weren't, and much more. It's just ridiculous.

 

[mgarbowski]

Last night Mark Booth posted a couple of tweets expressing IMO very mild disappointment about how the game ended.
They seem to be gone now.

 

[JayH]

It's not that the referee gave a red to parks. I can see it being a red sometimes. But it was extremely inconsistent calls that made it so infuriating. Calls that went in one place didn't get called in others, stuff that according to his light reffing style should have been penalties weren't, and much more. It's just ridiculous.

I think he went into the game intending to "keep things under control" given the rivalry. This is such an amateurish approach and more often results in an over-officiated game, ripe for inconsistencies and unnecessary game-changing decisions. Unless it's an Avalanche/Red Wings 1990's type scenario, an official should use ordinary discretion and not message send. I never complain about officiating, but this game was a mess from that perspective throughout.