NYCFC Confirm Departure of PV. Nice Confirm Arrival of PV as Manager.
- Thread starter JayH
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I think one day is enough for back and forth on this point, so I'll leave your response as the last word for now. I will just clarify that I'm not celebrating his departure, I acknowledge he has accomplishments, and that I judge his tenure to date as less than satisfactory overall is in part due to his (presumed) leaving with things undone.
Plus, for all we know he could surprise us all and stay.
I also wonder how people (including me) would react if in one of PV's 2 seasons, the team finished 3rd or 4th, won a home playoff game, and then lost in the next round. The end result is the same, with the team eliminated at the same point. This is just trading a slightly worse regular season result for a fleeting playoff success. It's not necessarily rational but I think I would think better of that. I would definitely have fewer bullet points.
I don’t know how that would weigh on feelings, but it possibly would help since it’s a gut punch to always feel as though little to no preparation was put into place for important knockout matches.... and by no preparation, I mean no run through a brick wall mentality by the players and tactics that look generic for the league in general rather than zeroed in for the particular opponent.I also wonder how people (including me) would react if in one of PV's 2 seasons, the team finished 3rd or 4th, won a home playoff game, and then lost in the next round. The end result is the same, with the team eliminated at the same point. This is just trading a slightly worse regular season result for a fleeting playoff success. It's not necessarily rational but I think I would think better of that. I would definitely have fewer bullet points.
mgarbowski, I always appreciate your thorough analyses, but I think you are concluding way too much on what is a small sample size (4 games).
This guy only starts counting at 50
I also think part of that sample size is potentially bad data with the wrench of Callens' red card in the Columbus series.
We've definitely underachieved in the playoffs, but one time we played our B-team, one time we got beaten by a better team (although very badly), another time we lost on the road in a close game, and the final time we were undone by a red card.
I read the Univision article where it also says that he admires the play of three teams: RBNJ, SKC, and NYCFC. Assuming PV goes (either this week or at the end of the season) - CFG should have an open checkbook for Guille. He’d bring a youth movement and a SA pipeline.
Have I been unclear about this? Because I think I've been clear about this. Or maybe we have different ideas of what "sample size" is relevant to. I never said in any of these posts that I think PV is a bad elimination contest coach, or never will be, either here or elsewhere. In fact I have explicitly stated that I am not making that argument. Since I am not making a generalized conclusion based on a sample, I'm not sure how sample size is relevant. Analogy time: If I watch a player in one game and say he had a bad game, the sample size is irrelevant, because I'm explicitly judging that game. If I watch a player in one game and say he's a bad player, I'm doing so on a very limited and almost certainly inadequate sample size. I'm not saying PV is a bad coach, I'm judging his tenure here, which simply is what it is.
You can disagree with my judgment of his time here because you value the things he has achieved more than I do. You might give more weight to style of play, or a general winning atmosphere, or finishing second in the Supporter's Shield and second in the East twice, or improving over Kreis. Maybe you judge him a solid developer of talent. All those are fair and reasonable positions (and I do value those, but proportionally less), but then the crux of our disagreement has nothing to do with sample size. It is a value and judgment preference. In my view, to quote my very first post on the topic, "When you are in a playoff league and don't win a single playoff contest despite finishing 4th and 2nd in the combined table I cannot give you a 'Good.'" I later included the USOC games. It's a value judgment that I consider those the relevant criteria. If he never made the playoffs the sample size would be "zero" (plus the USOC games) and I would still bemoan that he never won a playoff round, but add in that he never made the playoffs also.
Also, for yet more clarification. If he won a Supporters Shield, I'd substantially revise my position, and that's a full season contest. I probably value that more than most people here. I only left it out because I wanted to keep the discussion focused.
The bottom line is I think he was hired to win something while here. He hasn't done that. The relevant period for that determination is 2 full plus one partial seasons to date because that is the length of his time as head coach. I would be prone to a more generous leniency based on that time period if he were fired, or had to quit for personal problems or illness or anything outside his control. But (if he resigns) it is his decision to do so, and that is what he is choosing to leave himself with. If he wants more time, he should stay. I won't blame him if he leaves, but if he cuts short his opportunity to have succeeded here, that's part of the trade-off.
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Your points are sound but I'd like to throw in my 2¢. If he leaves I agree with you completely that he's not done enough here. If, however, all these stories are just crazy unsubstantiated rumors and he stays for another six years, say, I feel with what he's done here so far I've been quite really pleased with him as a first-time coach, and I look forward to him continuing to learn and improve and to end up winning many things.
So, leaves: too soon, not enough accomplished; stays: done well so far, looking forward to far more.
timing may not coincide. Guille is not leaving Boca this summer with libertadores still going on. and if PV leaves this week dont think a blank check persuades him this summer
Correct on the timing, Guille would be more for the end of the season. Honestly if PV walks out the door tomorrow I’m not expecting anything more than a caretaker anyway.
I’d be more than content with a caretaker if we could land Guille long term at the end of the year. He’d be an instant draw with SA youth players, and specifically Boca Juniors, and he’s a proven winner in a competitive SA league - granted, one where there’s disparity top to bottom, and he’s with the best club, but he doesn’t lay proverbial goose eggs.
Could you imagine a manager, who is not old and basically retiring, leaving a club like Boca to come to MLS? Ten years ago that would have been a laughable rumor, now it may be considered a step up to some.
Ten years from now? I can't wait to see where this league goes!
Ten years from now? I can't wait to see where this league goes!
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