2016 Mls College Superdraft

[SoupInNYC]

Looks like if anyone is going to lose playing time to Harrison it's going to Mix if he doesn't step it up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/687790805579382785

I don't quite get this tweet, and another article I saw referencing Mix is in trouble after drafting Harrison...

Reyna and PV have both come out and said that Harrison is a protypical winger. Mix is not a winger. I get it that Mix will have to fight for PT, but I think that has more to do with 1) the formation PV decides is best for the team and 2) fighting for PT with guys like Pirlo/Lampard/Poku/and dare I say TMac and AJ.

Maybe the selection of Harrison changes the formation that PV wants to deploy and could potentially force Mix to the bench, but I don't see Harrison as a direct threat to Mix's playing time.

 

[CCMore]

Just notice Jack Harrison wore number 11. We have also just opened our disgraced number 11 spot. If he takes number 11 I hope he graces it as an 11 we are proud of.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Your logic is flawed. Being a GA, his lack of Cap Hit over 2+ years is likely nullifying the the amount of allocation $$ we gave up.

How much do you think we gave up? I don't think Chicago is trading unless we are talking about at least 200,000. We will never know, but I doubt they traded him for the salary required to pick up Ballouchy. So his generation adidas designation is irrelevant since we spent hundreds of thousands of cap dollars to get him.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I don't quite get this tweet, and another article I saw referencing Mix is in trouble after drafting Harrison...

Reyna and PV have both come out and said that Harrison is a protypical winger. Mix is not a winger. I get it that Mix will have to fight for PT, but I think that has more to do with 1) the formation PV decides is best for the team and 2) fighting for PT with guys like Pirlo/Lampard/Poku/and dare I say TMac and AJ.

Maybe the selection of Harrison changes the formation that PV wants to deploy and could potentially force Mix to the bench, but I don't see Harrison as a direct threat to Mix's playing time.

The front office has not gotten the memo to stop shitting on mix to the media yet.

 

[Sabo]

Are we certain that we gave up GAM? Or did we give up TAM? I'm not quite certain if I've seen that detail given or maybe I just missed it.

Chicago Fire say they received GAM.

 

[Rimil]

How much do you think we gave up? I don't think Chicago is trading unless we are talking about at least 200,000. We will never know, but I doubt they traded him for the salary required to pick up Ballouchy. So his generation adidas designation is irrelevant since we spent hundreds of thousands of cap dollars to get him.

yeah I mean how much salary do you think he is going to command his first few years. Larin is what 150k? and what would he need to be to make the top 20 roster spots, 60k+, so it would be like ~100k savings for us. Chicago is going to ask for 100k at a min. But you know they are going to try and squeeze us for more knowing Harrison was our #1 target.

Edit:
Questions, How long does the GAM go to the other team? And how long does a GA contract protect a player's salary from the cap?

 

[Sabo]

Think about it over the longer term. Assume Harrison and Vincent are both going to be successful in MLS. Who is going to command a higher transfer fee in 5 years? Harrison by a heluvalot more than $100-$200K.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

A lot of guys in last years draft were can't miss/great value/sure things, too. But, there were a lot of guys we wasted more than 200,000 in cap money on, too. So, there is no sure things, I hope this guy is as good as the team seems to think.

 

[Ulrich]

Are we certain that we gave up GAM? Or did we give up TAM? I'm not quite certain if I've seen that detail given or maybe I just missed it.

Pretty sure I saw it reported as GAM by the major outlets

How much do you think we gave up? I don't think Chicago is trading unless we are talking about at least 200,000. We will never know, but I doubt they traded him for the salary required to pick up Ballouchy. So his generation adidas designation is irrelevant since we spent hundreds of thousands of cap dollars to get him.

Jack Harrison's GA deal is probably about $200K+ year. The number of GA players has gone down and their contract gone up over the last few years, especially with guys of this caliber. We're not talking Ballouchy $60K money for two years, we're talking about $400K+ in savings. Harrison was the best HS player followed 6 months later by the best college player, and as a freshman would need to be mightily enticed by a high figure to sign with MLS over staying in school or going abroad.

Case in point: Andrew Wenger was a 2012 GA and had an initial deal of $222K total compensation. He did not even have near the cache that Harrison is carrying. And this was 4 years ago so MLS was much tighter with their GA $$.

 

[Taurus]

Looks like if anyone is going to lose playing time to Harrison it's going to Mix if he doesn't step it up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/687790805579382785

The removed Mix's picture from the City Membership advertisement a few weeks ago. Insert Harrison?

 

[SoupInNYC]

Chicago Fire say they received GAM.

Thanks, I think I've just seen the loose term of "allocation money".

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

Pretty sure I saw it reported as GAM by the major outlets

Jack Harrison's GA deal is probably about $200K+ year. The number of GA players has gone down and their contract gone up over the last few years, especially with guys of this caliber. We're not talking Ballouchy $60K money for two years, we're talking about $400K+ in savings. Harrison was the best HS player followed 6 months later by the best college player, and as a freshman would need to be mightily enticed by a high figure to sign with MLS over staying in school or going abroad.

Case in point: Andrew Wenger was a 2012 GA and had an initial deal of $222K total compensation. He did not even have near the cache that Harrison is carrying. And this was 4 years ago so MLS was much tighter with their GA $$.

We're talking about two different things. You seem to be saying that the fact that he is GA saves us 200k/year. I agree there, obvioulsy. That salary structure allows us not to pay him with cap money. However, once he is already GA, we traded probably 200k in cap dollars, that could have been used for a LB or a new CB to get him. I am saying he needs to justify that amount of trade dollars. this year. And I am skeptical he can do that. I hope I am wrong, but I would rather have Vincent, Matarrita and Teixeira rather than Harrison and only Teixeira, if that is the choice.

 

[SoupInNYC]

Pretty sure I saw it reported as GAM by the major outlets

Jack Harrison's GA deal is probably about $200K+ year. The number of GA players has gone down and their contract gone up over the last few years, especially with guys of this caliber. We're not talking Ballouchy $60K money for two years, we're talking about $400K+ in savings. Harrison was the best HS player followed 6 months later by the best college player, and as a freshman would need to be mightily enticed by a high figure to sign with MLS over staying in school or going abroad.

Case in point: Andrew Wenger was a 2012 GA and had an initial deal of $222K total compensation. He did not even have near the cache that Harrison is carrying. And this was 4 years ago so MLS was much tighter with their GA $$.

I agree with your general point here, but I'm going to be that asshole that points out that Harrison wasn't the best college player. The actual award went to Jordan Morris (who obviously wasn't in the draft). I can see the point that potentially Harrison was the best college player in the draft, but that would be more of an opinion of several people whereas others may think Yaro, Vincent, etc.

That said, he obviously is extremely talented, made All American his freshman year, etc. I still like the move a lot.

 

[NickA]

Not that I didn't already know/feel this...but this thread shows just how convoluted MLS is.

 

[SoupInNYC]

We're talking about two different things. You seem to be saying that the fact that he is GA saves us 200k/year. I agree there, obvioulsy. That salary structure allows us not to pay him with cap money. However, once he is already GA, we traded probably 200k in cap dollars, that could have been used for a LB or a new CB to get him. I am saying he needs to justify that amount of trade dollars. this year. And I am skeptical he can do that. I hope I am wrong, but I would rather have Vincent, Matarrita and Teixeira rather than Harrison and only Teixeira, if that is the choice.

But lets say we traded away 200k in allocation money for him and he saves us 200k/year. Thats already a push for this year and then a 200k savings next year. I don't quite get the notion that he needs to show 200k value this year.

Lets say we drafted Vincent instead and he gets on a salary of $100k (just speculation here, I could be way wrong on this). We now no longer target Matarrita and instead try and upgrade at winger. We spend $200k on a talented winger. Thats $300k total spent on LB and a winger.

Say we now drafted Harrison and spent $200k on Matarrita. That's in essence, $400k for Year one for a LB and LW and $200k for Year 2 for a LB and a LW. Over two years, would be a push over the other scenario.

Now I do know I'm throwing somewhat random salaries out there for this example, but we have to look at next year having Harrison not hit the cap as well.

 

[mgarbowski]

Just to add to the level of uncertainty....
Even if we knew Harrison's salary to the penny, you can't just say we saved that much as a result of GA. GA players get paid more in significant part because they don't count against the cap. Other reasons include they are generally better than non-GA and to induce them to join MLS early. So if he were not GA he either would be paid less, or he would not be in MLS (either still in college or overseas). Too many factors to say anything for sure, but, for hypothetical fun: let's assume his salary is $240k and if he were not GA he would still have signed with MLS for $160k. Totally made up for example purposes. I would count that as $160k saved because of GA, not $240k.

 

[Ulrich]

I agree with your general point here, but I'm going to be that asshole that points out that Harrison wasn't the best college player. The actual award went to Jordan Morris (who obviously wasn't in the draft). I can see the point that potentially Harrison was the best college player in the draft, but that would be more of an opinion of several people whereas others may think Yaro, Vincent, etc.

That said, he obviously is extremely talented, made All American his freshman year, etc. I still like the move a lot.

You can definitely be that guy that knocks me back down a few notches..... lots of thoughts flying in my head and that leads to some loose interpretations and needed fact checking.... top college player>top college freshman if I would care to read sometimes.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

GA player is an off budget player that doesn't count towards our salary cap meaning that our #21st highest salary player will now count towards the cap so the saving is really the difference between Harrison's salary and the our 21st highest salary player because we still have to have 20 players count towards the cap.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Not quite - Vincent is *not* a GA player. He played four years at Stanford and was a senior. We'd have taken a Cap Hit with him.

2016 GA Players

Good point. I missed that.

GA player is an off budget player that doesn't count towards our salary cap meaning that our #21st highest salary player will now count towards the cap so the saving is really the difference between Harrison's salary and the our 21st highest salary player because we still have to have 20 players count towards the cap.

Precisely. There is an advantage to having a GA player, but it's not his full salary. We won't know how big the advantage is until the players' union releases 2016 salaries.

Here's another way to look at it. If he is a guy that gets significant playing time this year - say regularly comes on as a sub and starts a handful of games, then we are getting our 13th or 14th best player for the cost of our 20th highest paid player. A good savings.

Plus, we didn't make that trade for the value he produces this year, but for what he will give us over the long term.

 

[Tom in Fairfield CT]

I'll remind everyone that Khiry Shelton was considered the most MLS ready player coming out the draft last year.