Vehement only in that I can’t believe the conversation even needs to be had at all by perplexed fans in an effort to rationalize why MLS is dragging their feet.
2017 Playoffs and 2019 CCL
- Thread starter Kjbert
- Start date
I sense a new forum signature just got coined.
That’s a certifiable joke if true - MLS is a farce.
From what I understand, the rules don't declare the match a forfeit as some had thought. So a fine is within the league rules. Anyone know for sure?
I wonder what would have happened if it was a match between two teams that were already effectively out of the playoff race.
That’s ridiculous. If Dallas had won the game and used an ineligible player, how the hell would MLS spin giving only a fine? They wouldn’t and couldn’t. Frankly the game’s result/score shouldn’t factor as the severity of the infraction is the same whether it’s a tied match or one that he opposing team won, but the root interpretation is that they’d have to declare a fortfeit if a team won using an ineligible player, and so they should also declare this match a forfeit.
Teams would have too much integrity to start doing it, but this sets a bad precedent that the worst punishment that can happen is a fine, so for deep pockets, why not use an ineligible player? I don’t condone it, and hope we never do it, but this is now on record (once MLS officially announces it) and it’d be hard (near impossible) for MLS to buck the ruling the next time.
Seems like a lot of people are upset about this but my understanding is that it was a last minute screwup and not an attempt to cheat somehow. Is that true or am I completely misunderstanding what happened? If it was a genuine mistake of someone not being aware of the rule I think a fine is reasonable and a forfeit is harsh. If they were attempting a nefarious cheat though I'd expect the stronger punishment.
It just seems more like players accidentally batting out of order rather than someone corking their bat.
It just seems more like players accidentally batting out of order rather than someone corking their bat.
So if you own Apple (the company) and tell me over drinks you're about to buy Amazon (the company) and I tell you to hold my beer as I call my broker to buy a million shares of stock, because I don't know the rules on investing and that it is considered insider trading, then you're telling me a slap on the wrist is appropriate when the SEC comes knocking?
Whatever you're doing in life, but especially for work, you gotta know the rules..... it's your job.
Been thinking about this..... if MLS is just going to issue a slap on the wrist/fine, then when we have to play our next big game against ATL/TOR, we should turn in a lineup sheet that is completely fictitious (but utilizing 11 of the guys from the 18 available) and then run out the correct 11 right before kickoff. Let the other team waste energy/effort trying to rearrange their tactics/marking assignments. It may not help our cause one bit, or it might confuse a player or two, but MLS has now allowed a new component of gamesmanship to be legal (with a fine).
I don't know if you followed MLS during the 4th substitution loophole, but that was fun! You could get a 4th sub if your keeper got injured with no subs left, only keeper for keeper.
So that rule got abused when a team, put it's striker in net, subbef him out with a new striker as gk, then put the real gk back in.
That's (maybe) casting what happened onto the more nefarious side. Here's my understanding of what happened:
- team passed out lineup sheet with player starting
- last minute change was made to have player on the bench so new lineup sheet was distributed
- player brought in as late sub
This does not seem like illegal insider trading to me. Seems more like the coach changing their mind and using a different player. So yes, against the rules maybe but doesn't seem to merit forfeiting or giving up points especially as it wasn't intentionally done in an effort to cheat somehow (as far as I know). I mean, if nobody had told me this was against the rules I would have never known there was any sort of a problem with what happened.
You are missing the bigger issue. You can disagree with the severity of the rule all you want, but if there is a rule that is codified by FIFA and MLS and the IFAB, and you don't implement the prescribed punishment that is a huge issue. It means that the league are playing favorites and the some teams don't have to follow the same set of rules as other teams.
League is basically saying that FC Dallas can break rules that MLS agreed on because Dan Hunt's dad saved the league 15 years ago. This Mickey Mouse BS has to stop if MLS wants be taken serious.
I watched the game when Eddie Gaven was the object of that exploitation. It was such a poorly written rule that it was amusing to see it not only exploited, but lead to a successful result. Somebody got fired that day.
Having a lot of trouble finding the MLS rule (of course) but was able to find the IFAB version. From IFAB Law 3 - The Players, Section 3. Substitution Procedure:
The names of the substitutes must be given to the referee before the start of the match. Any substitute not named by this time may not take part in the match.
I found the same wording on a US Soccer page as well. According to the rule, as long as the ref has the team sheet before kickoff you're good. There's no mention of changing the team sheet though, or only being allowed to submit a single sheet with no revisions allowed. So it's certainly possible you're not allowed to change your team sheet but the actual rule makes no mention of that as far as I was able to find.
Sources:
IFAB: http://www.theifab.com/laws/the-players/chapters/substitution-procedure
US Soccer (PDF file, page 34): https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/xx3byxqgodqtl1h15865/file/109933501929
ETA: You all may be absolutely correct. I just haven't been able to find a rule that states that explicitly.
FIFA:
MLS:
MLS:
That's all fine but it's a little bit skirting the issue. I'm not at all saying there shouldn't be a penalty for using an ineligible player. What I'm saying is that so long as you give the list of players (and apparently also bench personnel) to the ref before the start of the match you're in the clear. I haven't found anywhere where it says you can't change that list, as long as the ref has it before the match starts.
Also, where did you find that MLS rule quote? Looks way more official than what I've seen, which seems more like a summary of the rules rather than the actual rules.
Look at the quote from IFAB you posted. You give the ref the list. If you don't name the person on the team sheet at the time you give the team sheet to the ref, you cannot use that person as a sub. I can't see how you can interpret that mean that a team can change the team sheet after they give it to the ref.
MLS quote came from the competition manual. It's not publicly available, but members of the media definitely have been leaked copies.
Well, if he wasn't anywhere in the 18 on the (new) sheet given to the ref then you're right. But if they were both on the (new) sheet and the ref got it before the start of the match then there's no issue with the sub. We just don't know which was the case. Or maybe we do and I just haven't seen that info. So yeah, I could totally be wrong but I'm not sure we know.
