2019 Roster Discussion

[Fantazma]

Yeah, I'm not against using one of our DP slots on a young DP I just feel like they need to target players that are slightly more established and a bit less raw than Medina. I'm not going to be unreasonable as say we should be getting Almiron level players but somewhere in the middle of Medina and Almiron in terms of upside and being ready to contribute year 1 seems like a reasonable expectation.

when you going to south america you taking a risk....always. if anything only look at at brazilian/ argentenian leagues exclusively. i mean i feel like barco was more expensive to be a sub as well. granted he is younger but didnt give impact that was expected from him ( yes the whole personal stuff assume hurt him more but still) considering he was playing sudamericana with independiente. he will come back strong im sure, but year one was lacking.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

when you going to south america you taking a risk....always. if anything only look at at brazilian/ argentenian leagues exclusively. i mean i feel like barco was more expensive to be a sub as well. granted he is younger but didnt give impact that was expected from him ( yes the whole personal stuff assume hurt him more but still) considering he was playing sudamericana with independiente. he will come back strong im sure, but year one was lacking.

kaku fell off at the end of the year as well.

 

[Fantazma]

kaku fell off at the end of the year as well.

according to RB fans it was because armas played him deeper in midfield than Marsch did so he was not effective...i dont know i dont watch the team.

 

[Kjbert]

You could be pedantic, but in reality the transfer fee is spread out over the length of his contract for his budget charge. The extra cap savings we get from him being a youth DP needs to accounted for as well. Over the length of his contract, he will cost us probably around a million a year.

The club had to withdraw $4 million this year and wire it to his former club. Then they paid the kid $600k.

The accounting doesn’t matter. Nycfc has $4.6 million less right now than this time last year.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

The club had to withdraw $4 million this year and wire it to his former club. Then they paid the kid $600k.

The accounting doesn’t matter. Nycfc has $4.6 million less right now than this time last year.

That really matters zero in terms of evualating the roster for next year. You dont buy a 19 year old because you think he's a 4 million dollar player year 1. It's just not how things work. This is a project.

 

[Kjbert]

That really matters zero in terms of evualating the roster for next year. You dont buy a 19 year old because you think he's a 4 million dollar player year 1. It's just not how things work. This is a project.

Don’t you think, in a capped league, it’s importent to understand how a transfer fee impacts the rest of your roster construction? Especially when that transfer fee causes you to use up one of your special spots?

 

[Fantazma]

Don’t you think, in a capped league, it’s importent to understand how a transfer fee impacts the rest of your roster construction? Especially when that transfer fee causes you to use up one of your special spots?

lol its MLS you talking about. still switching rules and still some rules not even clear. make up rules as you go sometimes.

as for transfer it depends on the agreement. there are many players that are paid off in "phases" as well and im not talking about future sale payments etc. I know in latin america its very common player sold from team A to team B for $5M for example but initially only get paid 2.5M in the first year then the rest comes in year 2 and three.

 

[Christopher Jee]

The club had to withdraw $4 million this year and wire it to his former club. Then they paid the kid $600k.

The accounting doesn’t matter. Nycfc has $4.6 million less right now than this time last year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this first came up when comparing the amount we spent on Medina (in the first year, with transfer fee frontloaded) to what was spent on other players (I'm guessing some of whom were first year, with transfer fee frontloaded, and some weren't). The inference (again, if I'm not wrong) was that we should set our expectations based on how much we spent on him (i.e. we should expect him to be the 11th or 12th most impactful player in the league).

My issue with this is that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison if we are comparing the 4.6M we spent on Medina on a first year, frontloaded transfer basis, with a player (for example) who cost his club 4.6m in his second year without the transfer fee attached. It seems fairer to me to compare players using a cost-basis that controls for which year of the contract they're on at least.

tl;dr - If we're going to be comparing players purely based on how much they cost their clubs, we should at least use the same cost basis.

 

[adam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this first came up when comparing the amount we spent on Medina (in the first year, with transfer fee frontloaded) to what was spent on other players (I'm guessing some of whom were first year, with transfer fee frontloaded, and some weren't). The inference (again, if I'm not wrong) was that we should set our expectations based on how much we spent on him (i.e. we should expect him to be the 11th or 12th most impactful player in the league).

My issue with this is that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison if we are comparing the 4.6M we spent on Medina on a first year, frontloaded transfer basis, with a player (for example) who cost his club 4.6m in his second year without the transfer fee attached. It seems fairer to me to compare players using a cost-basis that controls for which year of the contract they're on at least.

tl;dr - If we're going to be comparing players purely based on how much they cost their clubs, we should at least use the same cost basis.

But also factor in opportunity costs, like using up a DP spot.

 

[Kjbert]

But also factor in opportunity costs, like using up a DP spot.

That’s part of my point.

Let’s say we budgeted $5 million in 2018 for that DP slot. Did we get good value in return?

 

[Fantazma]

That’s part of my point.

Let’s say we budgeted $5 million in 2018 for that DP slot. Did we get good value in return?

hindsight is 20/20 even if its not medina would we have had better value if we got someone else? who knows?

 

[Gotham Gator]

All this Medina talk puts me in mind that his amortized salary might lead to some roster flexibility.

Let's assume his transfer fee was, as rumored, $4 million, and the contract is for 4 years.

That means his budget charge should be $1.77 million per year. If the rumors are true about max compensation for a TAM player rising to $2 million next year, this would mean that we could convert him to TAM and sign a new DP.

It's worth keeping in mind that there is a big downside to doing this. As it stands, Medina will count as a $200,000 charge against our salary budget in 2019. If he is converted to TAM, he will use up a boatload of it that could be used on multiple other players - basically, we would be sending $1.57 million of TAM out the window in exchange for being able to sign another DP - money we could use to sign two TAM players in the $800,000 range. PLUS, if the DP we sign is not a young DP, he will count over $500,000 against our salary budget making the impact even worse.

So, the question is whether it is worth converting him over to TAM in order to sign a DP or if it is better to use the TAM on other players.

 

[Kjbert]

hindsight is 20/20 even if its not medina would we have had better value if we got someone else? who knows?

Well no shit. What we’re all saying is that the kid didn’t live up to the investment last year.

 

[sbrylski]

All this Medina talk puts me in mind that his amortized salary might lead to some roster flexibility.

Let's assume his transfer fee was, as rumored, $4 million, and the contract is for 4 years.

That means his budget charge should be $1.77 million per year. If the rumors are true about max compensation for a TAM player rising to $2 million next year, this would mean that we could convert him to TAM and sign a new DP.

It's worth keeping in mind that there is a big downside to doing this. As it stands, Medina will count as a $200,000 charge against our salary budget in 2019. If he is converted to TAM, he will use up a boatload of it that could be used on multiple other players - basically, we would be sending $1.57 million of TAM out the window in exchange for being able to sign another DP - money we could use to sign two TAM players in the $800,000 range. PLUS, if the DP we sign is not a young DP, he will count over $500,000 against our salary budget making the impact even worse.

So, the question is whether it is worth converting him over to TAM in order to sign a DP or if it is better to use the TAM on other players.

Answer: No. I wouldn't mind all three DPs to be young and charged just $200k against the cap. Maybe you spluge on one superstar if they come available at the right time. Then have 5+ players in the $500k-$2mm range bought down with TAM.

DP1: Maxi
DP2: Medina
DP3: *Young DP*
TAM: Berget
TAM: Ring
TAM: Callens

Wow, this list highlights how poorly we are spending TAM right now. I hope that dropping the $6mm Villa salary allows us to cash out all our discretionary TAM and go all out this winter/summer while staying under budget. (Damn those CFG bastards for giving us a budget!)

We need 2-3 more high paid TAM players ($750-$1.5m) and another good young DP, IMO.

 

[Fantazma]

Well no shit. What we’re all saying is that the kid didn’t live up to the investment last year.

yea thats a risk with any DP. i fee like that also is obvious i dont know why people been nagging on this like crazy about it. Maxi got shitted on like crazy after first year saying worst DP ever, on and on. im still of the belief that more often than not DP's will take time to adjust to this league, especially if they coming from South America and if they young. Not everyone is almiron.

i do prefer this youth risk we taking than bringing 33 yr old over. We struck gold with villa, that is NOT going to happen easily again.

 

[gbservis]

Answer: No. I wouldn't mind all three DPs to be young and charged just $200k against the cap. Maybe you spluge on one superstar if they come available at the right time. Then have 5+ players in the $500k-$2mm range bought down with TAM.

DP1: Maxi
DP2: Medina
DP3: *Young DP*
TAM: Berget
TAM: Ring
TAM: Callens

Wow, this list highlights how poorly we are spending TAM right now. I hope that dropping the $6mm Villa salary allows us to cash out all our discretionary TAM and go all out this winter/summer while staying under budget. (Damn those CFG bastards for giving us a budget!)

We need 2-3 more high paid TAM players ($750-$1.5m) and another good young DP, IMO.

For cap reasons this makes sense in that it gives us a lot of flexibility I remember Gotham Gator doing some insightful deep dives into this topic last off season. My only worry is the quality of the young DP. If we are using a DP slot on them they need to be able to start from day 1. I can't think of a young DP in league history that was signed as a development project that ended up working out. It's just a reckless use of a slot that allows the financial flexibility to get a sure thing.

 

[adam]

Maybe you spluge on one superstar

To each their own brother.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

But also factor in opportunity costs, like using up a DP spot.

And benefits like an extra 300k in cap space and transfer value.

 

[EganSoccerWords]

All this Medina talk puts me in mind that his amortized salary might lead to some roster flexibility.

Let's assume his transfer fee was, as rumored, $4 million, and the contract is for 4 years.

That means his budget charge should be $1.77 million per year. If the rumors are true about max compensation for a TAM player rising to $2 million next year, this would mean that we could convert him to TAM and sign a new DP.

It's worth keeping in mind that there is a big downside to doing this. As it stands, Medina will count as a $200,000 charge against our salary budget in 2019. If he is converted to TAM, he will use up a boatload of it that could be used on multiple other players - basically, we would be sending $1.57 million of TAM out the window in exchange for being able to sign another DP - money we could use to sign two TAM players in the $800,000 range. PLUS, if the DP we sign is not a young DP, he will count over $500,000 against our salary budget making the impact even worse.

So, the question is whether it is worth converting him over to TAM in order to sign a DP or if it is better to use the TAM on other players.

Medina is likely on a (2+1+1) 4 year deal. I would speculate that means the transfer fee is spread over the first two nonoption years which means that he is TAMable next season not this season. I believe LionNYC got confirmation of this from Claudio Reyna.

 

[canchon]

So just to confirm, do you have to spread the transfer fee over the life of the contract or could you apply it all to the first year?

I thought I remembered somewhere that transfer fees could be put all in one shot instead of expensed across the life of the contract.