2019 Roster Discussion

[sbrylski]

The team is either shifting to youth development and we’ll see the likes of Lewis and Sands receiving a lot of minutes or we’ll just suck while they rot on the bench.

We are a USL2 team.

Throw some money at some players early on to try to hook some fanbase. Pare down spending when you realize how expensive it is. Half-heartedly try to build club infrastructure. Settle into a place where you're just a landing spot for academy grads that don't make it all the way to the first team (we are at the beginning of this stage).

The good news is that, at maturity, NYCFC should have a killer academy and should graduate enough players to keep us well stocked with talent. The bad news is we are looking less and less like a local maximum on the CFG landscape and more and more like a pure feeder and brand outreach.

How much longer can we deny it? We don't even sell our best players to other European teams, we just transfer them to MCFC. Harrison, Herrera, even Mix (lol). Too good for us, not good enough for the first team, so they'll find somewhere else for them that slots in between - no care for how it affects NYCFC, only caring how it effects the player in relation to the value they bring CFG/MCFC.

We are not what MLS envisioned we'd be when they saw CFG's bank accounts.

EDIT: To take the edge off my pessimism, maybe this route *is* the best long term future for the club anyway. Maybe 10 years from now we have an MLS-competitive starting lineup of local American academy grads and have a few graduates in Europe that are starting for the USMNT. Or maybe we are a midtable team in a baseball stadium that still doesn't invest in transfer fees and transfers all our best players out.

EDIT2: Imagine the equivalent. Imagine if NYCFC set up "Albany United" in USL League One. Do you think we would invest in an academy specifically for Albany United with success metrics aimed solely at producing quality players for USL League One? Or would those success metrics be aimed at producing players for NYCFC and using Albany United to get those players some competitive playing time at age 17, and to be a landing spot for academy graduates that won't cut it at the MLS level? We are the Albany United in Manchester United's eyes.

 

[sundance]

EDIT: To take the edge off my pessimism, maybe this route *is* the best long term future for the club anyway. Maybe 10 years from now we have an MLS-competitive starting lineup of local American academy grads and have a few graduates in Europe that are starting for the USMNT.

The dream

 

[ManhattanValley]

How much longer can we deny it? We don't even sell our best players to other European teams, we just transfer them to MCFC. Harrison, Herrera, even Mix (lol). Too good for us, not good enough for the first team, so they'll find somewhere else for them that slots in between - no care for how it affects NYCFC, only caring how it effects the player in relation to the value they bring CFG/MCFC.

Harrison was *this* close to going to Stoke before Man City decided they'd rather keep him in the family. He was gone regardless of who our owners were.

Herrera would never have played here were it not for CFG. No one's expecting to be pleased with the parent club pulling rank (See also: Red Bulls, New York), but this genre isn't going anywhere for now, and personally I'm not distraught at the prospect of seeing several players who are "too good for us" coming through the door.

As for Mix (loooool) - CFG got him here by paying him more than any MLS team would (or should) have spent. Stupid, yes. Unambitious? Nah. His subsequent move to MCFC is more of a reflection of his career imploding and his pivot to merchandise than anything else.

It's easy, crowd-pleasing stuff right now to moan that CFG never has our best interests at heart, especially when the hot stove is ice cold right now. I'm of the belief that this isn't the zero-sum game you're making it out to be - I'm more of a 'rising tide lifts all boats' kinda guy. It's just not in CFG's interest to turn us into a miserable backwater.

 

[sbrylski]

It's just not in CFG's interest to turn us into a miserable backwater.

The point is they're also not incentivized to care if we become a miserable backwater. All that financial backing was supposed to mean they could invest in MLS without worrying too much about whether revenues would make up for it. What it really means is they don't have to care about revenues at all, and will only invest if it makes an impact on MCFC's performance/value. Instead of high costs and medium revenue, they're fine with medium cost and low revenues, depending entirely on the impact on and needs of MCFC.

 

[Midas Mulligan]

The team is either shifting to youth development and we’ll see the likes of Lewis and Sands receiving a lot of minutes or we’ll just suck while they rot on the bench.

All in on playing youth, especially if 50% or more are American. If we're going to always lose, I'm going to at least need a reason to watch.

 

[Kjbert]

CFG is going to make me want to become a Pro/Rel knucklehead

 

[Kjbert]

I think the RedBull model augmented with the maximum resources of CFG should be the long term approach. But they’ll probably fuck that up

 

[Marito]

Harrison was *this* close to going to Stoke before Man City decided they'd rather keep him in the family. He was gone regardless of who our owners were.

Herrera would never have played here were it not for CFG. No one's expecting to be pleased with the parent club pulling rank (See also: Red Bulls, New York), but this genre isn't going anywhere for now, and personally I'm not distraught at the prospect of seeing several players who are "too good for us" coming through the door.

As for Mix (loooool) - CFG got him here by paying him more than any MLS team would (or should) have spent. Stupid, yes. Unambitious? Nah. His subsequent move to MCFC is more of a reflection of his career imploding and his pivot to merchandise than anything else.

It's easy, crowd-pleasing stuff right now to moan that CFG never has our best interests at heart, especially when the hot stove is ice cold right now. I'm of the belief that this isn't the zero-sum game you're making it out to be - I'm more of a 'rising tide lifts all boats' kinda guy. It's just not in CFG's interest to turn us into a miserable backwater.

I do agree with your general premise that our relationship with CFG is a mixed bag that sometimes limits us but other times gets us off the hook of a bad mistake (Mix). However, I don't see why Herrera couldn't have transferred directly from his Venezuelan league team to MLS (meaning to NYCFC) back in early 2017. At that point Herrera was the 19 y.o. captain of a surprising Venezuelan U20 team that had done great in SA qualifiers for the U20 WC. Nothing less but also nothing more. CFG paid 1 million for 80% of his rights, 1/4 of Medina, 1/15 of Barco, for comparison's sake. Coming from a country that is not exactly a hotbed of talent, under the radar, etc. He is exactly the kind of prospect MLS could entice. Later on he starred in the U20 WC and his stock went up, but even then he would have been affordable.

 

[Rimil]

Harrison was *this* close to going to Stoke before Man City decided they'd rather keep him in the family.

I'm a big fan of using "thisclose" to demonstrate textually what normally requires a visual hand cue. Enough so that I advocate for its use whenever I see it not used. So here we are. Your move.

 

[canchon]

So the two most important players from last year (Villa and Herrera) are now gone. Gulp.

And yeah, I know Maxi had a terrific year, but he was marked out of games. villa’s your team captain and main scorer and Herrera was the bite in midfield that made the team dominant.

 

[Fantazma]

So the two most important players from last year (Villa and Herrera) are now gone. Gulp.

And yeah, I know Maxi had a terrific year, but he was marked out of games. villa’s your team captain and main scorer and Herrera was the bite in midfield that made the team dominant.

i still think chanot is ultra important in defense and ring in the midfield.

 

[ManhattanValley]

The point is they're also not incentivized to care if we become a miserable backwater. All that financial backing was supposed to mean they could invest in MLS without worrying too much about whether revenues would make up for it. What it really means is they don't have to care about revenues at all, and will only invest if it makes an impact on MCFC's performance/value. Instead of high costs and medium revenue, they're fine with medium cost and low revenues, depending entirely on the impact on and needs of MCFC.

CFG can't run this team like FC Dallas and expect it to fulfil their main objectives - that is (1) an audition stage for potential MCFC signings from around the world and (2) A shiny advertisement for the power and influence of that all-important CFG brand. If NYCFC doesn't get hold of good (expensive) players, then they slip out of CFG's control. If NYCFC becomes a toxic afterthought setting records in futility every year in MLS, then that's miserable for The Brand.

Sure, they're only investing for MCFC's sake.....isn't that the whole reason we exist in the first place?

 

[ManhattanValley]

I do agree with your general premise that our relationship with CFG is a mixed bag that sometimes limits us but other times gets us off the hook of a bad mistake (Mix). However, I don't see why Herrera couldn't have transferred directly from his Venezuelan league team to MLS (meaning to NYCFC) back in early 2017. At that point Herrera was the 19 y.o. captain of a surprising Venezuelan U20 team that had done great in SA qualifiers for the U20 WC. Nothing less but also nothing more. CFG paid 1 million for 80% of his rights, 1/4 of Medina, 1/15 of Barco, for comparison's sake. Coming from a country that is not exactly a hotbed of talent, under the radar, etc. He is exactly the kind of prospect MLS could entice. Later on he starred in the U20 WC and his stock went up, but even then he would have been affordable.

You're right, it's completely feasible that an independent NYCFC could have found and developed someone like Hererra on their own. And it's equally feasible that after two years, a player of his talents would then wind up getting signed by someone in La Liga. We don't leap up the food chain without CFG - we could quite likely fall down.

 

[Gotham Gator]

So the two most important players from last year (Villa and Herrera) are now gone. Gulp.

And yeah, I know Maxi had a terrific year, but he was marked out of games. villa’s your team captain and main scorer and Herrera was the bite in midfield that made the team dominant.

I would put Ring > Herrera, but Yangel was certainly important.

Fortunately, soccer is a "weak link" game - i.e. having few weak players is more important than having the strongest one or two players. We've got a good core. We need to replace Villa and Herrera for sure, but we don't need to build up and down the roster.

 

[Kjbert]

I would put Ring > Herrera, but Yangel was certainly important.

Fortunately, soccer is a "weak link" game - i.e. having few weak players is more important than having the strongest one or two players. We've got a good core. We need to replace Villa and Herrera for sure, but we don't need to build up and down the roster.

I agree with your thesis but not your outcome.

We’re ok at GK, RB, RW. We’re great at CB, 6, 10.

We lack a LB, a CM, a CF and a LW.

You could make the argument we could upgrade Johnson, Tinnerholm and Isi. But we really need new blood all up the left and at the CF position.

 

[mgarbowski]

Looks like we signed Barrazaa

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085627211720339457

 

[LionNYC]

Looks like we signed Barrazaa

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085627211720339457

No, we did not. All drafted players from the SuperDraft attend this event.

 

[Rimil]

Looks like we signed Barrazaa

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085627211720339457

Rookie Symposium Handbook
Chapter 1: How to gain twitter followers; cause that's your only value to us right now
Chapter 2: How to find a roommate, cause you ain't gonna afford NYC housing on what we are gonna pay you
Chapter 3: How to deal with the grief of getting cut when you're no longer marketable to us
Chapter 4: Spanish for beginners; on the off chance you're halfway decent

 

[sbrylski]

Sure, they're only investing for MCFC's sake.....isn't that the whole reason we exist in the first place?

Not necessarily. We are a separate business entity. It's up to ownership to determine why we exist. They could have easily treated us like a completely separate business line with it's own hierarchy, vision, goals, and balance sheet. They could also easily treat us as part of the MCFC vertical, which we appear a lot closer to than the former.

 

[413Blue]

Not necessarily. We are a separate business entity. It's up to ownership to determine why we exist. They could have easily treated us like a completely separate business line with it's own hierarchy, vision, goals, and balance sheet. They could also easily treat us as part of the MCFC vertical, which we appear a lot closer to than the former.

Was it not clear from day one what this club was for? Did anyone actually expect a totally independent operation?