Bless Their Hearts (RBNJ Talk Here)

[mgarbowski]

I think I’m gonna push back on Zealand (or his weird bit where he’s not Zealand?). He kept discussing only two teams where fan bases are struggling to thrive, Red Bull and Chicago. And then he goes on to mention a bunch of teams that have, in his words, been successful. NYC, LAG, LAFC, Nashville, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Charlotte. Can we add more teams to the struggle bus? Sure. Rapids, White Caps, Earthquakes, Revolution. All old guard teams. But I’d say more than half of our teams are successful. Including small market teams. Last year RSL sold out their stadium close to 15 games in a row. When they don’t suck, Austin has a riotous crowd. Orlando has been steadily climbing and so has NYC. Audi Field has really helped DCU. All this is meant to say most teams in the league are successful which is enough. Especially when you add in that we are a parity league, then it makes every game relevant because the level of the highest team and the lowest team are not insanely far apart like they can be in other leagues like La Liga, Premier League, and Bundliega. Most games are competitive. And the ownership groups have paid into basically making sure they all are successful by buying into MLS instead of just a singular team. So everyone’s success rides on one another.

So I see your point Shwafta that having a strong healthy Red Bulls franchise only helps our team and our rivalry. But also feeling sympathy for the devils (or the bulls) isn’t going to make them a better franchise. The worst thing that can happen right now is Red Bulls fold. Which they won’t because they are also apart of a network of teams in other leagues. So your second worst outcome is that the HRD becomes obsolete because one team always wins. Which would be a bummer but then we also have a rivalry with Toronto and Philly that could be ramped up. Which would get our fan base going. This is what happened with the Rocky Mountain cup. RSL fans consider SKC more of a rivalry than the Rapids.

So I just don’t think this is as big of an issue that Zealand is making it out to be. Most teams are successful, parity keeps the league entertaining and brings back fans for most to all teams, and owners have incentives to have successful teams so you will continue to see declines in poor performing teams.

And lastly, just to throw it out there, There are many teams in MLB, NBA, NFL who are not super successful and those leagues are doing alright.

I agree his line of thought made no sense as far as I got, which was maybe 4 minutes of 12. He was passive/aggressive about MLS ("I like it, really, but here's why it sucks and also I mostly don't pay attention"). He complained they won't let Red Bull fail and die, while acknowledging it is a reasonably successful team on the field. Honestly outside of not winning a Cup it's been remarkably consistently good. What system is there that kills teams that stay out of the bottom of the standings? Not pro/rel, which not only is based entirely on field performance but also doesn't actually kill teams. It just sends them down to shameful irrelevance, while their fans wait and hope for a petro or techno baron or movie/tv star duo to buy them.

Plus, MLS actually has 3 defunct teams, basically one for every decade and nearly 10%of all teams that existed, and that's above average I think. It's also more a sign of illness (largely overcome by now) than health, yet he thinks it would be good if there were more?

 

[gbservis]

I think I’m gonna push back on Zealand (or his weird bit where he’s not Zealand?). He kept discussing only two teams where fan bases are struggling to thrive, Red Bull and Chicago. And then he goes on to mention a bunch of teams that have, in his words, been successful. NYC, LAG, LAFC, Nashville, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Charlotte. Can we add more teams to the struggle bus? Sure. Rapids, White Caps, Earthquakes, Revolution. All old guard teams. But I’d say more than half of our teams are successful. Including small market teams. Last year RSL sold out their stadium close to 15 games in a row. When they don’t suck, Austin has a riotous crowd. Orlando has been steadily climbing and so has NYC. Audi Field has really helped DCU. All this is meant to say most teams in the league are successful which is enough. Especially when you add in that we are a parity league, then it makes every game relevant because the level of the highest team and the lowest team are not insanely far apart like they can be in other leagues like La Liga, Premier League, and Bundliega. Most games are competitive. And the ownership groups have paid into basically making sure they all are successful by buying into MLS instead of just a singular team. So everyone’s success rides on one another.

So I see your point Shwafta that having a strong healthy Red Bulls franchise only helps our team and our rivalry. But also feeling sympathy for the devils (or the bulls) isn’t going to make them a better franchise. The worst thing that can happen right now is Red Bulls fold. Which they won’t because they are also apart of a network of teams in other leagues. So your second worst outcome is that the HRD becomes obsolete because one team always wins. Which would be a bummer but then we also have a rivalry with Toronto and Philly that could be ramped up. Which would get our fan base going. This is what happened with the Rocky Mountain cup. RSL fans consider SKC more of a rivalry than the Rapids.

So I just don’t think this is as big of an issue that Zealand is making it out to be. Most teams are successful, parity keeps the league entertaining and brings back fans for most to all teams, and owners have incentives to have successful teams so you will continue to see declines in poor performing teams.

And lastly, just to throw it out there, There are many teams in MLB, NBA, NFL who are not super successful and those leagues are doing alright.

The common thread between his two example teams (Redbull and Chicago) is that they both built stadiums in 2006 with a vision of fanbase growth coming largely from suburban soccer families. Turns out that building soccer stadiums in areas with nothing but a parking lot for the fans around your stadium and no (Chicago) or limited (redbull) access to public transportation is a bad idea for sustaining a fan base in the two American cities where large numbers people use public transit as their primary mode of transportation.

 

[gbservis]

Tayvon made the team of the week in EAFC 25 (the video game formerly called FIFA) for his performance in the Red Bull game. The last NYCFC players to be selected were Taty and Sean Jonson, who each got picked once in the 2022-23 season.

 

[gbservis]

I wonder if this changes their style on the pitch:

Klopp to become head of soccer at Red Bull

Former Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has signed a contract to become global head of soccer at Red Bull.

www.espn.com

 

[KevinJRogers]

I wonder if this changes their style on the pitch:

Klopp to become head of soccer at Red Bull

Former Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp has signed a contract to become global head of soccer at Red Bull.

www.espn.com

It might. I was as surprised as anyone at the news. I can't imagine Klopp just taking a check, so it's probably fair to assume he took the job to play a legitimate role and have a real impact.

There's a good piece in today's Guardian on it. I especially loved this passage:

New York Red Bulls have never won the MLS Cup, and it is this title fans crave. This season, the Red Bulls made the playoffs for the 15th consecutive year, but there is little optimism among supporters that the campaign will end with them lifting MLS Cup.

In contrast, since Red Bull took over the MetroStars the company’s team back home, Red Bull Salzburg, has won the Austrian Bundesliga title in 14 of 18 seasons, while its German side, RB Leipzig, has risen from the fifth tier of German football to become Champions League regulars and win the DFB Pokal (German Cup) in 2022 and 2023.

In comparison, New York Red Bulls are treading water (to make things more frustrating New York City FC, who only started play in 2015, won MLS Cup in 2021).

By the way, RB Leipzig has dodged the Bundesliga's 50+1 rule by being 100 percent club member owned -- but there are only 21 or so voting members, and they're all either Red Bull executives or their relatives. That's New York Yankees bad faith-level stuff.

Here's the article:

The underwhelming New York Red Bulls could use some help from Jürgen Klopp

The franchise plays in one of the world’s largest sports markets but has yet to win an MLS title. The former Liverpool coach could help change things

www.theguardian.com