General MLS Discussion

I watched the end of this one - missed the launch, sadly, but caught the tying goal, the 2 Montreal goals, and then Perea's DOGSO red so that Orlando finished with 9 men.

Philly gets to play them next with no Nani and No Perea.
 
so red bulls just stomped miami. were already up 2-0 and were superior even before the 2nd yellow reducing miami down to 10 for the second half.

really didn't want them getting some confidence and momentum as they forward to the first HRD next week.
 
moogoo said:
eally didn't want them getting some confidence and momentum as they forward to the first HRD next week.
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They have 7 wins in 6 months, and won at least once in every month. This was their first win in September. Maybe they're done winning this month. Not one of their wins to date has given them confidence and momentum that carried over into a strong streak. The best they ever did was win 2 in a row at home against Chicago and Toronto. No reason this win should be any different. But it could, because things happen.

Basically, this is the same narrative issue SoupInNYC likes to point out:
If a team wins after a bye it was because they were rested; but if they lose it was they were stale. The narrative is ever malleable and unfalsifiable.
If the Red Bulls win a few, it was because the Miami game gave them confidence. If they don't, well they just weren't that good.

How often do teams that average roughly 1.1 PPG go on a streak because they won a game more than halfway through a season? Not much, but there will always be instances when they do. But it's not the narrative. Clusters and streaks just happen. Every streak has to start somewhere, but that doesn't mean the first game causes the streak.
Mostly, when bad teams win they just stay bad and when good teams win they just stay good. Sometimes bad teams can win a few in a row, then get bad again. Good teams can do the opposite.

ETA: My favorite meta comment on this is to note that when struggling teams (including underperforming good teams who should be doing better) have a rousing win, announcers almost alway say: "If they go on a run starting now, people will point to this game as the spark." They know enough not to say, "I guarantee [or even predict] this will turn their season around." Because it usually does not. Most exciting singular wins from struggling teams are outliers. But when it does happen, we love to look back and pretend that win was the reason things changed.

Double ETA: I'd love to see a compilation clip of announcers saying things like that, followed by text showing the team went 4-6-4 the rest of the way. I think Soup, and I, and maybe 10 other people would watch the hell out of it, and everyone else would shrug.
 
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Coming into this game RBNJ had won I think once in 10 games, and had scored like four goals in its last four games.

on the other hand Miami had won something like four out of its last five games and hadn’t given up a goal for four games.

Peak conditions for MLS randomness - sometimes you get results that don’t make much sense. I chalk last night’s result up to that. RBNJ are still a bad team.

If NYCFC wants to be a top team, they need 9 points from the derby games. There can’t be any more mystique about playing “away” at RBA and it feels like the derby has less juice than in prior years.
 
alan kelly and crew enjoying another controversial call for philly's first goal. gotta love that type of consistency.
 
moogoo said:
alan kelly and crew enjoying another controversial call for philly's first goal. gotta love that type of consistency.
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2 things about that goal.

1. Philadelphia throws an Orlando player to the ground. The AR flags it, but the referee doesn't blow the whistle. Orlando get possession and start a counterattack and then Philadelphia get the ball back. So, that throwing down is not part of the attacking phase of play. Therefore, VAR can't overturn is for a common foul. However, it were to be deemed violent conduct and a clear and obvious error then the goal would be overturned and a red card issued.

2. Montero from Philadelphia is offside when the ball is struck. The AR doesn't raise his flag. However the Orlando player comes to the referee to signal offside and in the view of the keeper obstructing his view. Not overturned for that either.
 
moogoo said:
alan kelly and crew enjoying another controversial call for philly's first goal. gotta love that type of consistency.
Click to expand...
What call(s) was it inconsistent with?

LionNYC said:
2 things about that goal.

1. Philadelphia throws an Orlando player to the ground. The AR flags it, but the referee doesn't blow the whistle. Orlando get possession and start a counterattack and then Philadelphia get the ball back. So, that throwing down is not part of the attacking phase of play. Therefore, VAR can't overturn is for a common foul. However, it were to be deemed violent conduct and a clear and obvious error then the goal would be overturned and a red card issued.

2. Montero from Philadelphia is offside when the ball is struck. The AR doesn't raise his flag. However the Orlando player comes to the referee to signal offside and in the view of the keeper obstructing his view. Not overturned for that either.
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The crew got Point 1 completely correct. You can't go beyond the attacking phase and you can't otherwise review basic fouls. And I wouldn't want those rules changed or we'd be reviewing for days.

The portion of the offside rule that requires involvement in the play is always tricky. No one understands it, and people who understand it pretend it means something different when they want it to. I don't think the Union players were close enough to the keeper to be interfering with him, and they definitely had no effect on the ball. I think they got it right. Back to moogoo's point, I can imagine this call would seem inconsistent with other similar calls, but it's so fluid and subjective, it's like complaining pass interference is not consistently called. It's not, but it's basically inherent to the rule itself.
 
moogoo said:
my comment was sarcasm about how alan kelly & crew tend to be involved in "controversial" calls. Use of quotes because i personally didn't think it was controversial but Twellman's commentary made it seem like it was.
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Got it. I only saw the clip which cut off before most of Twellman's histrionics.
 
mgarbowski said:
Double ETA: I'd love to see a compilation clip of announcers saying things like that, followed by text showing the team went 4-6-4 the rest of the way. I think Soup, and I, and maybe 10 other people would watch the hell out of it, and everyone else would shrug.
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Oh man, if there was a way to easily search game commentary transcriptions to find those comments, I would definitely put in the time to put that together.
 
For a while the conventional wisdom, which I shared, was that NYCFC probably would have done much better if it came into the league under the same expansion rules that applied to Atlanta and LAFC.

Watching what Claudio has managed in Austin tells me that's not all that clear. I realize there are other differences - scouting, budget, etc - but Atlanta and LAFC still look like outliers even under the new rules. Hell, Miami had all the benefits ATL and LAFC had, plus broke the rules to have 4-5 DPs, and still struggled. It's fair to say NYCFC didn't have the same opportunity those clubs had, but I'm not so sure it comes together until 2016 anyway.
 
mgarbowski said:
For a while the conventional wisdom, which I shared, was that NYCFC probably would have done much better if it came into the league under the same expansion rules that applied to Atlanta and LAFC.

Watching what Claudio has managed in Austin tells me that's not all that clear. I realize there are other differences - scouting, budget, etc - but Atlanta and LAFC still look like outliers even under the new rules. Hell, Miami had all the benefits ATL and LAFC had, plus broke the rules to have 4-5 DPs, and still struggled. It's fair to say NYCFC didn't have the same opportunity those clubs had, but I'm not so sure it comes together until 2016 anyway.
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Honestly I think having the constraints we did in 2015 were probably a good thing in the long run even if they were a detriment that year. It made it so Kreis and co didn’t make a huge black hole of a roster that probably would have swallowed up most of 2016 as well. I’m looking at Miami who’s finally putting together a nice run but imagine having all that big money sunk into a roster and it didn’t perform and not being able to pívot and get replacements because you are already at or close to your max spending.
 
413Blue said:
FC Dallas fired Luchi Gonzalez. Kind of a surprise.
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it seems this year teams are firing coaches in middle of season, this was rare before in MLS where normally they wait till the end of the year.. Atlanta/ FC Dallas/ Toronto/ RSL- lost theirs as be became assistant at Seattle/ Vancouver/
 
www.mlssoccer.com

Power Rankings: CF Montréal & Atlanta climb, Orlando City fall after Weeks 25 & 26 | MLSSoccer.com

What a week in MLS. Atlanta United look rejuvenated, LAFC made a critical mistake that eventually led to them dropping points and Orlando City struggled. It was truly a week unlike any other. As always, you can listen to Matt Doyle, Andrew Wiebe and a range of guests from around
www.mlssoccer.com www.mlssoccer.com

I still like the columns, but the Atlanta cheerleading in the last few weeks of the Power Rankings commentary is starting to annoy me.
I'll just drop this here:
Atlanta is on a great run. 7-1-0 in their last 8 games. But 6 of those 8 were at home, including the last 4 in a row. To be fair, it's not automatic that you buzzsaw through an easy schedule. They also don't have the toughest schedule remaining, but the Cupcake Run is over.
 
mgarbowski said:
www.mlssoccer.com

Power Rankings: CF Montréal & Atlanta climb, Orlando City fall after Weeks 25 & 26 | MLSSoccer.com

What a week in MLS. Atlanta United look rejuvenated, LAFC made a critical mistake that eventually led to them dropping points and Orlando City struggled. It was truly a week unlike any other. As always, you can listen to Matt Doyle, Andrew Wiebe and a range of guests from around
www.mlssoccer.com www.mlssoccer.com

I still like the columns, but the Atlanta cheerleading in the last few weeks of the Power Rankings commentary is starting to annoy me.
I'll just drop this here:
Atlanta is on a great run. 7-1-0 in their last 8 games. But 6 of those 8 were at home, including the last 4 in a row. To be fair, it's not automatic that you buzzsaw through an easy schedule. They also don't have the toughest schedule remaining, but the Cupcake Run is over.
Click to expand...
Fair point. Not only were nearly all the 8 at home, but all but 2 were against teams currently below the line. The 2 above the line consisted of a 3-0 smackdown of Orlando, and a 2-0 loss to Nashville - both at home.

They have 9 games left, with a more balanced 5 away and 4 home, but still only 3 of 9 above the line.
 
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