New Jersey (Away) - Postmatch

[mgarbowski]

I also watched the Torrent press conference. He did well. I would have liked, actually maybe a bit more fire, but I think he gave that on the field after the final whistle and was appropriately more restrained at the table.

I also liked how he spoke of Chris [Armas]. It is clear Domé has good relationships with most other MLS coaches and I think that reflects well on him.

Finally, he referred to someone as "GAS" or something like that. I think it was Mackay-Smith, because he said something about the first 15 minutes, and I never heard him call anyone else that (unless I misheard) but I don't know how you derive GAS from his name, unless it's some pre-existing nickname? Anybody?

 

[Ulrich]

View attachment 9987

I thought last night that people were overstating the quality of our chances after Heber's goal, and blaming the players every time we missed an opportunity. I just rewatched all of them. That and this Opta chart confirm (for me) that opinion. The best chance we had after the goal was the first one at 24'. Air Bear and Taty (I did not realize he had so many names) were breaking with Robles and one defender in front of them, plus 2 trailing defenders just behind. Heber on the left passed passed to Taty center and the pass was just behind where it needed to be. By the time Taty stopped, gathered and shot, all 3 near defenders were on him and between him and goal. That's why the xG value is low, but it was a stronger chance until the slight misdirected pass.

Multiple people called out Ring but the 6.75% value looks right to me. The pass to him from Parks came in thigh high.
He had to catch it shoot it from another bounce off his first touch because he had one defender closing. Also, Robles had the angle covered and there was another defender inside the keeper box. I think people reacted to it being a typical Ring field goal but he did no worse than most in a tough situation.

None of the other chances were that great. We had some breaks but the RB defenders are fast and closed in. They play defense. Murillo, Long and Lawrence are regulars on the national teams. Tarek has been capped, though not so much or lately. In the shout box there were a lot of comments trashing our guys for missing those opportunities as if the Red Bulls had a third rate back line and had no responsibility for us not scoring more. We basically deserve the one goal we got.

The two that stood out was Parks’ rocket right at Robles and Taty had a wormburner off the outside of the post (I think Robles was wrong-footed going the other way so Taty had more cushion to put on frame).

And yeah, if Heber had led Taty on the break then it was a sure goal.

 

[mgarbowski]

The two that stood out was Parks’ rocket right at Robles and Taty had a wormburner off the outside of the post (I think Robles was wrong-footed going the other way so Taty had more cushion to put on frame).

And yeah, if Heber had led Taty on the break then it was a sure goal.

Yeah. I didn't mention the Parks shot, but while it wasn't an amazing save it also was not right at him. It was several feet to Robles's left and he had to leave his feet to get it. I thought Parks made him make decently tough save. There were also 3-4 defenders back on that one as well, so Parks made I thought a good choice to shoot from that distance.

 

[Kjbert]

If we finish our chances in the first half, the game is over at halftime.

Poor challenge by Chanot. Lazy even. He needs to do better. And Johnson needed to have come off his line to punch that away.

The second goal was BS. But when the ball goes out of play, you need to be ready.

 

[Kjbert]

Is it me or do goalkeepers tend to have great days when we play them?

 

[ManhattanValley]

Finally, he referred to someone as "GAS" or something like that. I think it was Mackay-Smith, because he said something about the first 15 minutes, and I never heard him call anyone else that (unless I misheard) but I don't know how you derive GAS from his name, unless it's some pre-existing nickname? Anybody?

Gaz is a pretty common nickname for Gary in the UK.

 

[mgarbowski]

Gaz is a pretty common nickname for Gary in the UK.

TIL...
Thanks

 

[adam]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/contr...utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Love the local coverage.

 

[Gotham Gator]

Thinking some more about ThrowInGate.

The biggest culprit here is the AR.

• First, he clearly called for a corner kick.*
• Then, he confirmed this verbally to the NYCFC players.
• Next, he continued to signal for the corner kick even though the call changed to a throw in; he made a weak throw in signal with his left hand, but his flag remained pointed at the corner.
• Finally, he kept his flag pointed at the corner all the way until the moment of the actual throw in.

This is the guy who is most responsible for failing to communicate the situation to the players. The call changed, and I suspect he said so, but that was once NYCFC players were out of earshot; and this official never pulled back his call of a corner kick by raising his flag.

I suspect that Alan Kelly verbally overruled the call over the microphone, but also never communicated the change and wasn't really in a position to in any case.

And like Mr. Garbowsky, their subsequent dishonesty about what happened is completely inappropriate and disappointing.

 

[Ulrich]

Thinking some more about ThrowInGate.

The biggest culprit here is the AR.

• First, he clearly called for a corner kick.*
• Then, he confirmed this verbally to the NYCFC players.
• Next, he continued to signal for the corner kick even though the call changed to a throw in; he made a weak throw in signal with his left hand, but his flag remained pointed at the corner.
• Finally, he kept his flag pointed at the corner all the way until the moment of the actual throw in.

This is the guy who is most responsible for failing to communicate the situation to the players. The call changed, and I suspect he said so, but that was once NYCFC players were out of earshot; and this official never pulled back his call of a corner kick by raising his flag.

I suspect that Alan Kelly verbally overruled the call over the microphone, but also never communicated the change and wasn't really in a position to in any case.

And like Mr. Garbowsky, their subsequent dishonesty about what happened is completely inappropriate and disappointing.

The AR did switch the flag from his right hand to left hand. But he did that after Callens was running back to the box and after Callens initially complained with a “come on, no way” at the initial corner ruling.

I would bet my house on Kelly not confirming the thrown in on the microphone. Had he done it, he never would have had such a long discussion with the AR to understand the situation.

The sheer audacity of PRO to say Kelly was in a better position to make the call is criminal considering the AR was 2 feet from the corner.

Here’s where this type of incompetence will have a greater effect - now that MLS will allow betting, there is the very possibility of lawsuits erupting over something as obviously wrong as this reffing decision. This isn’t even a grey area call - the evidence is clear and they fcked up and Kelly should have called the entire play back admitting the throw in was incorrectly taken after a CK ruling.

 

[mgarbowski]

And like Mr. Garbowsky, their subsequent dishonesty about what happened is completely inappropriate and disappointing.

I've been trying to be more charitable about the lying bit, and the best I can come up with is the following, which is largely consistent with your explanation of what happened before the call.

I'm not saying this is true or even likely true but it is consistent with what we know. Kelly overrules the AR over the mike but says nothing out loud and makes no signal. The AR then points down with his left hand but the flag is still pointed to the corner and nobody notices. The AR also does say something, but with the corner crowd noise nobody hears him but the RB player right next to him, who alertly picks up the ball and does the quick throw in. [This one bit -- that the AR said something but nor loudly enough -- is the one bit I am somewhat certain of. It is the only explanation for why the RB player was so quick to take the throw in. That player never appears to look at the AR's left hand.]

Anyway, then I have to assume that Kelly is truthful, but arguably guilty of further game mismanagement after the call. If he did call the reversal, he should have said so and signaled as such immediately when Johnson approaches him screaming. Instead he signals for everyone to hold on while he talks to the AR, which I infer would just be to confirm that the AR announced the call change. Which he did, even if inaudibly. Kelly's lack of confident communication after the fact made things worse, and then, even moreso, he lets NYCFC vent for 3-4 minutes. I understand the concept that if an official thinks a team justifiably feels hard done by a call he stands by, he should give them some space to vent. Byt Kelly just stood there impassively for 3-4 minutes while NYCFC players lost it. He failed, by all appearances, to explain himself. He should have been saying over and over. "I did it. It was my call. I stand by it." But he never defended himself which made him appear like he though he messed up but lacked the nerve to fix it.

TLDR and bottom line, in order to acquit Kelly of the charge of dishonesty I have to explain it in a way that makes him seem even less competent.

 

[ZYanksRule]

I've been trying to be more charitable about the lying bit, and the best I can come up with is the following, which is largely consistent with your explanation of what happened before the call.

I'm not saying this is true or even likely true but it is consistent with what we know. Kelly overrules the AR over the mike but says nothing out loud and makes no signal. The AR then points down with his left hand but the flag is still pointed to the corner and nobody notices. The AR also does say something, but with the corner crowd noise nobody hears him but the RB player right next to him, who alertly picks up the ball and does the quick throw in. [This one bit -- that the AR said something but nor loudly enough -- is the one bit I am somewhat certain of. It is the only explanation for why the RB player was so quick to take the throw in. That player never appears to look at the AR's left hand.]

Anyway, then I have to assume that Kelly is truthful, but arguably guilty of further game mismanagement after the call. If he did call the reversal, he should have said so and signaled as such immediately when Johnson approaches him screaming. Instead he signals for everyone to hold on while he talks to the AR, which I infer would just be to confirm that the AR announced the call change. Which he did, even if inaudibly. Kelly's lack of confident communication after the fact made things worse, and then, even moreso, he lets NYCFC vent for 3-4 minutes. I understand the concept that if an official thinks a team justifiably feels hard done by a call he stands by, he should give them some space to vent. Byt Kelly just stood there impassively for 3-4 minutes while NYCFC players lost it. He failed, by all appearances, to explain himself. He should have been saying over and over. "I did it. It was my call. I stand by it." But he never defended himself which made him appear like he though he messed up but lacked the nerve to fix it.

TLDR and bottom line, in order to acquit Kelly of the charge of dishonesty I have to explain it in a way that makes him seem even less competent.

Not for nothing, but it seems pretty clear the correct call was throw-in, so I think Kelly just assumed it was a throw-in, and didn't realize the AR had called corner kick. That's why he went over to chat afterwards -- he had throw-in, but didn't realize what the AR had done. At that point, one of the teams is going to be spitting mad no matter what the final ruling becomes.

 

[mgarbowski]

Not for nothing, but it seems pretty clear the correct call was throw-in, so I think Kelly just assumed it was a throw-in, and didn't realize the AR had called corner kick. That's why he went over to chat afterwards -- he had throw-in, but didn't realize what the AR had done. At that point, one of the teams is going to be spitting mad no matter what the final ruling becomes.

Which also makes sense and brings us back to he lied to take the heat off his AR. The impulse is admirable, and some would excuse the lie for that reason. But I'm against it.

 

[canchon]

If you re-watch it, I can’t see how there was an “overruling” as everything happens so quick. The ball goes out, there is the motion for the corner and NYCFC players start jogging to go back and in less than two seconds Muyl picks up the loose ball and in one motion throws it in.

What any competent ref would have done there is blown the play dead due to the confusion in signals, confirmed the call and then re-started play. We’ve seen refs call off goals all the time for something during play, shouldn’t have even been a question.

 

[Regulator]

By my count there were 7 NYCFC players in the box actively defending the play - i.e. with eyes on the ball clearly seeing it's in play (plus one more defender outside the box contesting the first RBNY player with the ball after the throw in). There were only two RBNY players in the box, yet one of them was able to head it. At what point are the NYCFC defenders also to blame?

 

[LionNYC]

By my count there were 7 NYCFC players in the box actively defending the play - i.e. with eyes on the ball clearly seeing it's in play (plus one more defender outside the box contesting the first RBNY player with the ball after the throw in). There were only two RBNY players in the box, yet one of them was able to head it. At what point are the NYCFC defenders also to blame?

Looks like they are setting up for the corner. That's why the defenders are closer to the endline. A throw in would put defenders up higher so attackers could be offside for the kick after the throw in. Callens being so near the endline is because he's going to the post to defend it. Moralez is there because he would be close to the corner to defend that part. Nobody is near the sideline because it was called a corner kick.

 

[Gotham Gator]

By my count there were 7 NYCFC players in the box actively defending the play - i.e. with eyes on the ball clearly seeing it's in play (plus one more defender outside the box contesting the first RBNY player with the ball after the throw in). There were only two RBNY players in the box, yet one of them was able to head it. At what point are the NYCFC defenders also to blame?

And there is only one guy out to defend the three guys trying to cross the ball, which is perhaps the most important line of defense.

 

[LionNYC]

And there is only one guy out to defend the three guys trying to cross the ball, which is perhaps the most important line of defense.

Why is Ben Sweat, a left back all the way in the middle of the field? Because he's setting up for a corner kick.

He's probably one of the closer players to Alan Kelly at the point where Kelly "said" he verbally indicated it was a throw in. Ben Sweat is the best listener and speaker of English on the field for NYCFC except for Johnson and he doesn't react. That could be low soccer IQ, sure. But he's the closet to Kelly and ears the best English. Something is seriously wrong with the refereeing on this play.

 

[Brooklyn Blue]

A tifo for the inevitable Alan Kelly playoff assignment.

 

[dark knight]

I guess it's not surprising, but Red Bull fans think we are "whining". I don't care what team you support, I don't see how you can pretend like that was a normal soccer situation. Any team on the unfortunate end of that kind of terrible refereeing would be pretty angry understandably. I don't think we are a team that typically loses our mind or whines more than others.