Nycfc V Cosmos Postgame & Motm

[Midas Mulligan]

doctorhoosier

1)Again we are a team that has tied more games than anything. We have a history of letting in late goals. This game cannot end in a tie. The ONE thing Kreis should of been preparing for was PKs. Arguing otherwise is plain stupid.

2)Facey and Hernandez are both good defenders. Trying to argue which one is better was not my point or worth arguing about as I feel they are both the best we have in our back line. With that said you completely ignoring my real point which was the substitution. Not Facey vs Hernandez. We had to waste 2 substitutions gutting the back line that was doing its job well up until that point.(no goals on us yet) We got a worse backline in the tradeoff, we tired out our offensive players (for this game and the next) and coudlnt bring in new legs to push things forward because we wasted our subs on moving everything around in the back 4.

3)Why couldnt someone like Mix take the PK? Mullins? Hell Ballouchy? They have all scored in this league and team very recently. All play a more forward role than Alvarez with more playing time on the team. Your still not answering WHY he took the PK. Who cares that statistically speaking he would make that most of the time. Again all your doing is arguing hypothetical.

4)Again we have notoriously weak defense. We dont improve on that by making it even worse with substitutions. We take advantage of our marginally better offense. Or at least move to a 5 man back line. Kreis did neither. He simply swapped our better defenders for worse defenders, and in doing so we ended up conceding 2 goals.

5)Stop saying your not going to justify things with a response or virtually rolling your eyes. Its getting old. Also cut all the hypothetical (It would of gone in 9/10 times we have bad luck!! nonsense. If your going to bring up Bruce Arena, Sigi Schmidt, and Bob Bradley then lets be fair and say none of them would talk about luck when they lose a game...or wind direction. (Kreis has done both)

Agree except for #1.

 

[LionNYC]

I'm truly at a loss for words after tonight's match. It has no relevance towards the rest of the season in terms of points, but this was a complete letdown and I don't know how our players can recover mentality and physically (some playing 120 minutes) for Saturday's match at Toronto. I really wanted us to win this match and go deeper in the Cup. Only going to say a few things:

Supporters: So much passion, so much smoke. 25A-27A was going all out, all night. Props to everyone wearing blue or black that came out to the match tonight.

Poku: A god among men. Made something out of nothing with his first goal. Second goal was natural. He should have had a third in this match just to have a hat trick. I don't know why you subbed him out. You let him go 85' and then sub. Keep what's working on the field.

Kreis: Completely lost this game for us (besides our defense) with his subs and tactics towards the end. This game should never have gone back 90'.

Fuck Kreis for his terrible coaching and sub choices. Fuck Ballouchy for not passing for an assist rather than shooting himself. Fuck Alvarez for taking and missing that penalty kick. FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCK

 

[doctorhoosier]

doctorhoosier

1)Again we are a team that has tied more games than anything. We have a history of letting in late goals. This game cannot end in a tie. The ONE thing Kreis should of been preparing for was PKs. Arguing otherwise is plain stupid.

2)Facey and Hernandez are both good defenders. Trying to argue which one is better was not my point or worth arguing about as I feel they are both the best we have in our back line. With that said you completely ignoring my real point which was the substitution. Not Facey vs Hernandez. We had to waste 2 substitutions gutting the back line that was doing its job well up until that point.(no goals on us yet) We got a worse backline in the tradeoff, we tired out our offensive players (for this game and the next) and coudlnt bring in new legs to push things forward because we wasted our subs on moving everything around in the back 4.

3)Why couldnt someone like Mix take the PK? Mullins? Hell Ballouchy? They have all scored in this league and team very recently. All play a more forward role than Alvarez with more playing time on the team. Your still not answering WHY he took the PK. Who cares that statistically speaking he would make that most of the time. Again all your doing is arguing hypothetical.

4)Again we have notoriously weak defense. We dont improve on that by making it even worse with substitutions. We take advantage of our marginally better offense. Or at least move to a 5 man back line. Kreis did neither. He simply swapped our better defenders for worse defenders, and in doing so we ended up conceding 2 goals.

5)Stop saying your not going to justify things with a response or virtually rolling your eyes. Its getting old. Also cut all the hypothetical (It would of gone in 9/10 times we have bad luck!! nonsense. If your going to bring up Bruce Arena, Sigi Schmidt, and Bob Bradley then lets be fair and say none of them would talk about luck when they lose a game...or wind direction. (Kreis has done both)

Gavin, if you're trying to have a reasonable discussion with me, you can't both play the victim card and dismiss a reasoned and logical argument as "just plain stupid." Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

No coach in their right mind is pushing for an extra goal in the 86th. Not now. Not next year. Not ever. That's the only option other than "bunker and defend like hell", which rarely backfires if you have any degree of defensive strength.

We don't, and I can't blame a guy who had to build his team with a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to play in Utah or Dallas.

 

[doctorhoosier]

1) Dunn has played for us
2) Why did we need help in defense when our starting back 4 was preventing any goals up until the defensive subs? We conceded AFTER the subs. If anything we needed keep the pressure on and ensure our forward focused players (Mix, Poku, Mullins) got rest for Toronto.
3) Villa and MacNamara would of been much better subs.

What is the logical reason, other than "well, we lost", for trying to push for a three goal lead against a team who is beyond dangerous on the counter?

There isn't one. This wasn't on the attack tonight. The defense needed reinforcements, and the reinforcements didn't do their jobs.

This roster sucks. Kreis is having to play Chess with all pawns and one bishop.

 

[Mario]

Gavin, if you're trying to have a reasonable discussion with me, you can't both play the victim card and dismiss a reasoned and logical argument as "just plain stupid." Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

No coach in their right mind is pushing for an extra goal in the 86th. Not now. Not next year. Not ever. That's the only option other than "bunker and defend like hell", which rarely backfires if you have any degree of defensive strength.

We don't, and I can't blame a guy who had to build his team with a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to play in Utah or Dallas.

so why not take out mix/ballouchi/mullins and put kwame/wingert in a 5 man defense with 5-10 minutes left?

 

[Midas Mulligan]

Let's look at the sub options tonight that could have helped us up 2-0 trying to kill the game, shall we?

On the bench, we had Saunders, Wingert, Watson-Siriboe, Matt Dunn, Ned Grabavoy, Tommy McNamara, and David Villa (supposedly, but there was no chance he played tonight.)

Now keep in mind the context. You're up 2-0 and under all kinds of pressure with tired defenders. You're not pushing for another goal, because the Cosmos have come close to skinning you on the counter several times already.

Who do you bring on?

• Dunn - No friggin' chance. He hasn't played at all for us this year, and he's not noted for his strength in defense, anyway.
• McNamara - Played over the weekend, and is ideally a #10. So he doesn't help you in defense.
  
• Villa - A striker, so he gives you nothing in defense. Unless you're pushing for another goal, which we can pretty much accept wasn't the case.
• Saunders - You're not spending a sub on a keeper.

So that leaves:

• Grabavoy
• Wingert
• KWS

You make the three subs partially to kill time and partially to bring fresh legs to combat the Cosmos' speed. You can't take them home with you. You guys would be killing him, too, if we gave up a late equalizer with subs in his pocket.

So your only other option, other than what happened, is to push for another goal. And if 2-0 with 30 minutes to go isn't a comfortable lead, we've got way, way bigger problems than just *coaching*.

So I'm sorry, Midas, but this is a personnel issue and absolutely not a coaching issue today. There weren't any subs that made sense offensively, and unfortunately, KWS sucks and Wingert just didn't have it today.

I don't see how subbing on a guy who has no speed and no height that requires your other CB to move positions is "shoring up" the defense.

He was getting his boy a runout for his birthday and it bit him in the ass. But I don't think you're going to change your mind. It's fine. This is America. You can have an opinion, even if it's wrong.

And FTR, you're right about our squad. But I vehemently think your analysis of the squad is wrong as applied to this specific match (and the impact on the next).

 

[Gavin23]

Gavin, if you're trying to have a reasonable discussion with me, you can't both play the victim card and dismiss a reasoned and logical argument as "just plain stupid." Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

No coach in their right mind is pushing for an extra goal in the 86th. Not now. Not next year. Not ever. That's the only option other than "bunker and defend like hell", which rarely backfires if you have any degree of defensive strength.

We don't, and I can't blame a guy who had to build his team with a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to play in Utah or Dallas.

Ive literally been answering everything youve said point by bloody point. How am I dismissing anything? Im being as thorough as possible right now.

Again Im not saying you go for an extra goal but trying to bunker down does not equate to weakening your back line with lower quality defenders. We know this both from hindsight (it cost us 2 goals) and from common sense. The substitutions should of been spread evenly across the pitch to ensure key players are fit for Toronto. Instead we tired out our best players and brought on our weakest backline when the starting backline was fit and had not let any goals in despite numerous Cosmo attacks.

Again Kreis assembled this team and he plays the washouts more than anybody. So really no excuse for that.

Lastly Victim Card? I havent played that yet but Ill give it a try. YOUR RACIST. Cool?

 

[Mario]

and you dont worry about PK's up 2-0. ever.

 

[Gavin23]

I don't see how subbing on a guy who has no speed and no height that requires your other CB to move positions is "shoring up" the defense.

He was getting his boy a runout for his birthday and it bit him in the ass. But I don't think you're going to change your mind. It's fine. This is America. You can have an opinion, even if it's wrong.

And FTR, you're right about our squad. But I vehemently think your analysis of the squad is wrong as applied to this specific match (and the impact on the next).

Omg I forgot it was his fucking birthday. This makes even more Kreis Sense now. Just like when he did the sub in Utah to get him some claps from the home crowd. Fucking pathetic.

 

[doctorhoosier]

so why not take out mix/ballouchi/mullins and put kwame/wingert in a 5 man defense with 5-10 minutes left?

You're right that a 5 in the back system is something that could have been a nice compromise.

That makes sense to me if your team's practiced in playing 5 in the back. Not knowing if we've ever trained that, though, I can't totally recommend it. You don't want to ask a team to play 5 in the back without having worked it on the training ground - that's begging for mis-marking.

Ive literally been answering everything youve said point by bloody point. How am I dismissing anything? Im being as thorough as possible right now.

Again Im not saying you go for an extra goal but trying to bunker down does not equate to weakening your back line with lower quality defenders. We know this both from hindsight (it cost us 2 goals) and from common sense. The substitutions should of been spread evenly across the pitch to ensure key players are fit for Toronto. Instead we tired out our best players and brought on our weakest backline when the starting backline was fit and had not let any goals in despite numerous Cosmo attacks.

Again Kreis assembled this team and he plays the washouts more than anybody. So really no excuse for that.

Lastly Victim Card? I havent played that yet but Ill give it a try. YOUR RACIST. Cool?

So on one hand, you're arguing that we make substitutions in an effort to not win this game, but to rest for the next one. On the other, you're saying that losing a game in the lottery of penalties is a fireable offense. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

You said "anything else is just stupid." That's a dismissive argument. And whining about a sarcastic eyeroll made in jest... yeah, that's playing a victim card. I'm not going to argue about it further, but I think it's a bit silly, Gavin.

Getting back to the point, the "Kreis assembled this argument" is so, so wrong for the reasons I've brought up at least twenty times in this thread. Kreis didn't hand-pick this team - many of these guys were wash-outs that other clubs were planning to cut. The fact that he got as many useful players out of the expansion draft as he did (Mcnamara, Hernandez, and Mullins being the best examples) is a minor effing miracle. It is incredibly, incredibly difficult to build a decent MLS team due to the roster restrictions that you have, and it's damn near impossible to put together a winning team in your first season as a club with only a January transfer window and a washout draft.

Of the guys that he *did* sign from elsewhere, he bat above .500, which is pretty damn good. Facey, Saunders, Calle, Shelton, Poku, and Mix are all very, very useful players. He missed on Brovsky and KWS, but you're not going to hit on all of them.

The "Your racist" (sic) thing is just a bit odd, dude. But okay.

 

[Mario]

You're right that a 5 in the back system is something that could have been a nice compromise.

That makes sense to me if your team's practiced in playing 5 in the back. Not knowing if we've ever trained that, though, I can't totally recommend it. You don't want to ask a team to play 5 in the back without having worked it on the training ground - that's begging for mis-marking.

it wouldnt be the prettiest, but it leaves far less gaps, and responsibility for our poor defending. and for 5-10 minutes, it cant be as bad as it was tonight.

 

[Gavin23]

What is the logical reason, other than "well, we lost", for trying to push for a three goal lead against a team who is beyond dangerous on the counter?

There isn't one. This wasn't on the attack tonight. The defense needed reinforcements, and the reinforcements didn't do their jobs.

This roster sucks. Kreis is having to play Chess with all pawns and one bishop.

Half way thru the season. We know these guys sucked. The backline wasnt in need in reinforcements. They were doing their job. Only reason to sub Hernandez would be injury. Havent you ever heard the best defense is a good offense? This applies more than ever to us today. We had shit in terms of defensive subs. We had better options for the midfield and forwards that could of kept the ball in the opposite half, not necessarily scoring but kept off pressure. That would of been a far better defense then getting Wingert a Birthday Gift on Long Island. It again would of had to added benefit of resting some of our key players for Toronto. I shudder to think of our lineup now....

 

[TabascoDiva]

I agree with everyone sentiments in this Thread. This was a winnable game and Kreis did not deliver us from losing

 

[Midas Mulligan]

I agree with everyone sentiments in this Thread. This was a winnable game and Kreis did not deliver us from losing

And forgives us our trespasses, as he forgives those of RSL discards.

 

[doctorhoosier]

Havent you ever heard the best defense is a good offense?

That's a worn cliche that has zero place in modern soccer tactics. Playing open soccer in the 86th minute is begging to get beat by pacey strikers and wingers (which the Cosmos have in spades) on the counter.

Edit: If you're capable of playing tiki-taka possession football, then maybe it makes sense to kill the game by holding the ball. But you're still opening yourself up to unnecessary risk. That's not a strategy without its faults.

The point is that people here would be ripping Kreis no matter how we lost. He's on thin ice with this fan base, despite the challenges that have been handed to him.

 

[Mario]

That's a worn cliche that has zero place in modern soccer tactics. Playing open soccer in the 86th minute is begging to get beat by pacey strikers and wingers (which the Cosmos have in spades) on the counter.

if we had a team capable of killing off a game with possession then it would make sense. but half our team is incompetent.

 

[LionNYC]

Even NYCFC.com is in denial of what happened...

 

[LionNYC]

Also the referring was atrocious during this game but it didn't even matter since they did not decide the result. Poku didn't deserve to lose that match.

HEY BALLOUCHY, THERE'S NO "I" IN TEAM OR IN NEW YORK. PASS THE FUCKING BALL.

 

[NYCFCFan10]

Lol

It's pretty clear the powers that be weren't that interested in winning this

We can focus on the league now

 

[SayWhat44]

A draw it is...