- Jul 14, 2014
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San Jose Postmatch
- Thread starter NYCFC_Dan
- Start date
I originally had that same gif accompanying my post (no kidding) but decided it was a bit too much and someone else would add it eventually, anyway.
Thank you for proving my sanity. ;-)
- I told Jack during warm ups to get his. He certainly did.
- That error is 80% on Pirlo (terrible backless), 10% on Johnson (not great covering his angle), 10% on Callens (Didn't get great positioning on the air ball by Johnson).
- Jorge Gonzalez, again like the other refs we've that so far this season (aside from Alan Kelly) cannot manage the game. You give Jack Harrison a yellow for shooting when offside is called. He likely didn't hear the whistle. The card was listed for time wasting in the 86'. He didn't give Villa a yellow for walking off the field slowly. WTF?
- We won 2-1, but looking at the Audi Index number we should have won by a lot more. We're outplaying games and outplaying teams but we can't get our goal differential higher...
- We were up a man for more than 10 minutes at the end of the game. Look at these possession stats for the second half. Way too much dark blue there. We should have had a third up a man or close out a game better. It got too nervous at the end.
- That error is 80% on Pirlo (terrible backless), 10% on Johnson (not great covering his angle), 10% on Callens (Didn't get great positioning on the air ball by Johnson).
- Jorge Gonzalez, again like the other refs we've that so far this season (aside from Alan Kelly) cannot manage the game. You give Jack Harrison a yellow for shooting when offside is called. He likely didn't hear the whistle. The card was listed for time wasting in the 86'. He didn't give Villa a yellow for walking off the field slowly. WTF?
- We won 2-1, but looking at the Audi Index number we should have won by a lot more. We're outplaying games and outplaying teams but we can't get our goal differential higher...
- We were up a man for more than 10 minutes at the end of the game. Look at these possession stats for the second half. Way too much dark blue there. We should have had a third up a man or close out a game better. It got too nervous at the end.
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Full disclosure. I was wearing my Quakes jersey under a couple of layers of NYCFC coats.I believe this was the entirety of the SJ away support. They sat down about a minute before the opening goal.
I'm very slowly getting an eye for this, but still consider myself an amateur when it comes to really seeing the game. With that disclaimer, here's the recap I sent my brother.
[2] I've less to report on the second half as I was distracted with the boys. But what I saw wasn't very good. Lots of booting and a bunch of chippiness in the midfield. The highlight came as Viera subbed Pirlo out for McNamara. In five minutes we produced a stellar linkup play to get Tommy his first of the season. Mata wrestled the ball out in the midfield and sent it through for Villa, who raced forward before flicking a backheel through defenders to find Mata once again, now with eyes on goal. Perhaps fearing the angle, or simply seeing a clearer lane, Mata laid it off for Tommy who, running in from the angle, rolled an easy finish past the diving keeper. Later subs included Brillant for Maxi (huh?) and a very late Shelton for Villa. Along the way the match took a turn toward aimlessness. San Jose earned a straight red for spiking Tommy but NYC failed to press the advantage. Maybe it was the Brillant sub that did it. The team instead bunkered and booted, not even really trying to counter, and wore out the clock for a win.
White / Mata.—OK. White has been fine in the last few games. More solid on defense than RJ, doesn't tend to get forward. Mata attacks too much and loses the ball, but when he hits a good run it can almost seem worth it. (See our second goal.)
Pirlo.—Slow and at times painful. Bad on set pieces. But he also placed some [100 emoji] passes, more it seems than in recent games. Glad to see him subbed off, and wishing we'd see more of Herrera or Tommy earlier even if we keep Pirlo starting.
Maxi.—Delightful positioning and technique. A couple mislaid passes. He'd have looked better if our offense was in the mood for doing anything. As it is he didn't have much to put it forward to.
Ring.—I love his workrate and he's more good than bad. Still rough in some areas, though. He has a heavy touch a few too many times, losing the ball, and he doesn't seem capable of finishing at all. The latter isn't strictly necessary as we've got plenty of others to do it, but he gets forward so much that it would be nice if he knew what to do once he got there.
Wallace.—Another workhorse. No glory moments like we've seen before, but that's just the way it went this week.
Harrison / Villa.—Great as always. Villa didn't attack much directly but he provided the assist on both goals and otherwise worked hard to open up the field for his teammates. Jack is well ahead of his form last season. Lower quality overall than some earlier games but it was nice to see him finish one here.
Subs.—You know I love Tommy. I don't know if he really should have a place on the team this season, but glad to have him for this game at least. Brillant, who knows. Weird sub and if he did anything I didn't see it. (If he *actually* did something and I missed it, I blame the boys.) Shelton was on too late and may as well not have been there. I think after Tommy's goal Viera was comfortable enough in the lead that he wanted to spread some minutes around. So we saw some folks who haven't shown up in a while. Fine. But I'd be happier with a clearer plan when it comes to subs. Do we go to Shelton, or pref Okoli? What about Lewis, who really should be getting some game time? Hererra for Pirlo? Hopefully we get a little more consistency going forward.
- NYCFC v San Jose:
[2] I've less to report on the second half as I was distracted with the boys. But what I saw wasn't very good. Lots of booting and a bunch of chippiness in the midfield. The highlight came as Viera subbed Pirlo out for McNamara. In five minutes we produced a stellar linkup play to get Tommy his first of the season. Mata wrestled the ball out in the midfield and sent it through for Villa, who raced forward before flicking a backheel through defenders to find Mata once again, now with eyes on goal. Perhaps fearing the angle, or simply seeing a clearer lane, Mata laid it off for Tommy who, running in from the angle, rolled an easy finish past the diving keeper. Later subs included Brillant for Maxi (huh?) and a very late Shelton for Villa. Along the way the match took a turn toward aimlessness. San Jose earned a straight red for spiking Tommy but NYC failed to press the advantage. Maybe it was the Brillant sub that did it. The team instead bunkered and booted, not even really trying to counter, and wore out the clock for a win.
- Player comments:
White / Mata.—OK. White has been fine in the last few games. More solid on defense than RJ, doesn't tend to get forward. Mata attacks too much and loses the ball, but when he hits a good run it can almost seem worth it. (See our second goal.)
Pirlo.—Slow and at times painful. Bad on set pieces. But he also placed some [100 emoji] passes, more it seems than in recent games. Glad to see him subbed off, and wishing we'd see more of Herrera or Tommy earlier even if we keep Pirlo starting.
Maxi.—Delightful positioning and technique. A couple mislaid passes. He'd have looked better if our offense was in the mood for doing anything. As it is he didn't have much to put it forward to.
Ring.—I love his workrate and he's more good than bad. Still rough in some areas, though. He has a heavy touch a few too many times, losing the ball, and he doesn't seem capable of finishing at all. The latter isn't strictly necessary as we've got plenty of others to do it, but he gets forward so much that it would be nice if he knew what to do once he got there.
Wallace.—Another workhorse. No glory moments like we've seen before, but that's just the way it went this week.
Harrison / Villa.—Great as always. Villa didn't attack much directly but he provided the assist on both goals and otherwise worked hard to open up the field for his teammates. Jack is well ahead of his form last season. Lower quality overall than some earlier games but it was nice to see him finish one here.
Subs.—You know I love Tommy. I don't know if he really should have a place on the team this season, but glad to have him for this game at least. Brillant, who knows. Weird sub and if he did anything I didn't see it. (If he *actually* did something and I missed it, I blame the boys.) Shelton was on too late and may as well not have been there. I think after Tommy's goal Viera was comfortable enough in the lead that he wanted to spread some minutes around. So we saw some folks who haven't shown up in a while. Fine. But I'd be happier with a clearer plan when it comes to subs. Do we go to Shelton, or pref Okoli? What about Lewis, who really should be getting some game time? Hererra for Pirlo? Hopefully we get a little more consistency going forward.
- Final thoughts:
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Anyone else see white completely misplay a break, leaving chanot to make a miracle tackle? White is not good defensively and he rarely makes forward passes under pressure.
OH
Midas Mulligan ! My Andrea the Charley Brown of the MLS ! All I know is this Damn cold rain is reeking havoc on my back and I'm out of the good stuff . Mick Jagger sums up everything perfect and this New York state of mine with " What a drag it is getting old " !!!
THE CASE FOR NOT SELLING T MAC !!! Let's Here it for the boy Let's Give the boy a hand !!!
Or now's the perfect time with his stock up. Hopefully over the course of the season Herrera comes off the bench first (if not starting and Pirlo comes on). It will only be downhill for him from here on out. Do him the favor and move him somewhere he can get more playing time. It's win-win for everyone.
Agree with what has been said so far, couple of other items:
It was clear San Jose came in with a game plan to high press, block the midfield, and hit long balls. In the first six minutes SJ had two great chances directly created by their pressing. Credit to SJ for stopping Wondo and as others have said, Urena's goal is mostly Pirlo's fault. I don't blame Callens for the strange carom off the ball which was basically coming straight down. The game was really MLS 1.0 (San Jose) vs MLS 2.0 (NYCFC) in terms of stylistic differences.
If San Jose can press their way to a goal, what about better pressing teams (ahem, los Toros Rojos). And what is concerning is that PV seems ok with that, he said something in the presser like "I want to play our way and these goals will happen". Most MLS goals are off turnovers/mistakes...you don't see Toronto FC giving up gaffes like that. And given the high complexity in PV's system, you can't give away goals. You need to be able to win games 1-0 and not expect 2-3 goals every game, sometimes the finishing is not there.
PV needs to take Pirlo off of corner kicks - I pretty much have given up that we will ever score on a corner. Either Pirlo puts a ball into the box which is cleared or they try some complex set play which requires seven passes and breaks down before it is finished. Problem is if Pirlo isn't sending them, he is pretty much useless anywhere else on the field. Moralez should get a shot.
I thought that Villa wasn't really getting the touches he needed and didn't get much service...but he found a way to create both goals. Great to see him contributing in many ways as NYCFC needs to be able to win when Villa doesn't score. I think this was the first game that NYCFC won without a Villa goal since the demolition of Colorado last year.
Alex Ring is like the greatest player in the world until he gets inside the 18. If he could finish he'd be in the Bundesliga...but other that that he really provides energy that is needed. I'd like to see Herrera for Pirlo to see what the MF looks like with another athletic CM.
Chanot is great. That is all. He's really taken a step up this year.
Need to get 2-3 points out of the next two away games and then come home and (finally) beat Orlando.
It was clear San Jose came in with a game plan to high press, block the midfield, and hit long balls. In the first six minutes SJ had two great chances directly created by their pressing. Credit to SJ for stopping Wondo and as others have said, Urena's goal is mostly Pirlo's fault. I don't blame Callens for the strange carom off the ball which was basically coming straight down. The game was really MLS 1.0 (San Jose) vs MLS 2.0 (NYCFC) in terms of stylistic differences.
If San Jose can press their way to a goal, what about better pressing teams (ahem, los Toros Rojos). And what is concerning is that PV seems ok with that, he said something in the presser like "I want to play our way and these goals will happen". Most MLS goals are off turnovers/mistakes...you don't see Toronto FC giving up gaffes like that. And given the high complexity in PV's system, you can't give away goals. You need to be able to win games 1-0 and not expect 2-3 goals every game, sometimes the finishing is not there.
PV needs to take Pirlo off of corner kicks - I pretty much have given up that we will ever score on a corner. Either Pirlo puts a ball into the box which is cleared or they try some complex set play which requires seven passes and breaks down before it is finished. Problem is if Pirlo isn't sending them, he is pretty much useless anywhere else on the field. Moralez should get a shot.
I thought that Villa wasn't really getting the touches he needed and didn't get much service...but he found a way to create both goals. Great to see him contributing in many ways as NYCFC needs to be able to win when Villa doesn't score. I think this was the first game that NYCFC won without a Villa goal since the demolition of Colorado last year.
Alex Ring is like the greatest player in the world until he gets inside the 18. If he could finish he'd be in the Bundesliga...but other that that he really provides energy that is needed. I'd like to see Herrera for Pirlo to see what the MF looks like with another athletic CM.
Chanot is great. That is all. He's really taken a step up this year.
Need to get 2-3 points out of the next two away games and then come home and (finally) beat Orlando.
I am surprised people are letting Callens off the hook for the SJ goal. Yes, the backpass from Pirlo was terrible and handcuffed Johnson, but Callens needed to play it safe with the clearance.
For Midas and anyone else who didn't see it, Pirlo was closed down by the defense and sent a ball back to Johnson, but it was a high bouncer, and Johnson's first touch was poor, and he was lucky he could even get a foot on it before the defender got there. Johnson shanked the clearance, which rainbowed up and over to the side. Callens got under it, but Wondo got there and had his body on Callens, who, instead of taking the safe play, and booting it or heading it out, decided to try and control the ball. Instead of chesting it down, it bounced off his thigh and into open space in the box, where Urena pounced on it. Both Chanot and Pirlo were nearby, but each thought the other was going to close down Urena, and neither did.
I put it 40% on Pirlo, 40% on Callens, and 20% on Johnson. I would be shocked if anyone watched the video below and came to any other conclusion.
http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...c-vs-san-jose-earthquakes/details/video/99087
For Midas and anyone else who didn't see it, Pirlo was closed down by the defense and sent a ball back to Johnson, but it was a high bouncer, and Johnson's first touch was poor, and he was lucky he could even get a foot on it before the defender got there. Johnson shanked the clearance, which rainbowed up and over to the side. Callens got under it, but Wondo got there and had his body on Callens, who, instead of taking the safe play, and booting it or heading it out, decided to try and control the ball. Instead of chesting it down, it bounced off his thigh and into open space in the box, where Urena pounced on it. Both Chanot and Pirlo were nearby, but each thought the other was going to close down Urena, and neither did.
I put it 40% on Pirlo, 40% on Callens, and 20% on Johnson. I would be shocked if anyone watched the video below and came to any other conclusion.
http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...c-vs-san-jose-earthquakes/details/video/99087
Watching that game and reading the comments here about Pirlo before I had time to weigh in (I had a family even last night right after the game) is strong confirmation of the adage that where you stand depends on where you sit, because during the game I completely shared
Midas Mulligan's position that I could see, better than ever before, how much Pirlo does to disrupt the opponent's attempts to move the ball through the midfield long before it gets to our end. In fact I think I remember some devastatingly handsome fellow who sounded suspiciously like me saying exactly that to Midas. I even shared Midas's experience of missing the first goal due to a hot chocolate spill, about which the minor oddity is that neither he nor I were involved in spilling or being spilled upon for all the distraction it caused. While i have since seen the video of that fiasco and agree that Pirlo was the primary and initial culprit, I also cannot discount what I saw him do defensively in midfield. Which is why it's great to have a chance to watch games from different seats now and then and come here and interact with folks who watched from all over the stadium plus on TV.
Beyond that I'm on board with most of the consensus. The subs were puzzling at best, even though TMac scored the winner. Brilliant was about to be subbed in just before the red card, but I do not know for whom. When the ref gave the card Vieira pulled him back, only to send him in again 2 minutes later to sub for Maxi. But that and our playing style after the red were confounding. Why the hell did we concede possession, and whenever we got it back, just punt a long ball to their CBs? Somebody posted the 5-minute possession graph above and it's ridiculous. We had our worst possession after going a man up. SJ had 4 corners and 2 were after going a man down. I think they maybe had a free kick from a dangerous spot also.
Overall this felt like a grind it out win that would feel awesome if it came on the road or against a top opponent, but at home against SJ was more of a relief.
Midas Mulligan's position that I could see, better than ever before, how much Pirlo does to disrupt the opponent's attempts to move the ball through the midfield long before it gets to our end. In fact I think I remember some devastatingly handsome fellow who sounded suspiciously like me saying exactly that to Midas. I even shared Midas's experience of missing the first goal due to a hot chocolate spill, about which the minor oddity is that neither he nor I were involved in spilling or being spilled upon for all the distraction it caused. While i have since seen the video of that fiasco and agree that Pirlo was the primary and initial culprit, I also cannot discount what I saw him do defensively in midfield. Which is why it's great to have a chance to watch games from different seats now and then and come here and interact with folks who watched from all over the stadium plus on TV.Beyond that I'm on board with most of the consensus. The subs were puzzling at best, even though TMac scored the winner. Brilliant was about to be subbed in just before the red card, but I do not know for whom. When the ref gave the card Vieira pulled him back, only to send him in again 2 minutes later to sub for Maxi. But that and our playing style after the red were confounding. Why the hell did we concede possession, and whenever we got it back, just punt a long ball to their CBs? Somebody posted the 5-minute possession graph above and it's ridiculous. We had our worst possession after going a man up. SJ had 4 corners and 2 were after going a man down. I think they maybe had a free kick from a dangerous spot also.
Overall this felt like a grind it out win that would feel awesome if it came on the road or against a top opponent, but at home against SJ was more of a relief.
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Just don't see it that way. Pirlo playing a bouncing ball back at his keeper is bad, with the flow of SJ deep in our half, it's terrible. He could have played it out wide to Callens to put the ball well away from the goal mouth, or tried to collect it, at worst if he's dispossessed, our defenders have a couple seconds to identify runners and be set for whatever comes next. Johnson does something with Pirlo's terrible delivery under pressure. Callens is then playing a 50/50 ball and has no easy opportunity to control the ball with Wondolowski all over him. If anything Chanot is partially to blame given that he's asking for someone to cover Alashe because he knows he needs to cover Urena, and he ultimately covers no one. He thinks Alashe is still uncovered so gets distracted by him, and then gets confused on whether Johnson is going to charge the ball and starts sucking back to the goal line.
To me that's 90% on Pirlo and 10% on Chanot.
While I agree all three played a part—no way to argue against that—under the common principle of catalyst weighting (the most important link of any chain is usually the initiating action, major inflection points not withstanding), you have to assign most of the blame on Pirlo. If not for both a poor decision to pass back to Johnson (Callens was available for a simple pass out for either a return ball in midfield or a simple clearance—Pirlo should have also seen the two SJ players closing him and Johnson down), and a very poor execution of that pass, that chance/goal likely does not happen. Everything after was a hurried reaction to that decision/poor execution, placing all subsequent participants at a significant disadvantage. Based on game theory the contribution to outcome shouldn't be an equal sharing between Pirlo and Callens, if we are really trying to go that granular in our assessment.
All that said, I think you and I admittedly may be taking it further than it needs to go... unless, of course, we can co-author a paper on the applications of Nashian systems on football scenarios.
Come to think of it, there may be something in that.
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